1971, a story of fear, loss and hope

[Centaur]

For me I was born as a Muslim in Bangladesh to Bangladeshi parents. Eventually lost interest in religion. .

Too good for you. You should tell me before.

Remain a Bangladeshi. And it is my identity. I am proud of my identity, culture and language. Don't need any ummah to feel any sense of belonging.

Almost same feelings with opposite point of view. I am Muslim and it is my identity,culture and life style. Don't need any nationalist idea based on language to feel any sense of belonging.

The above are different ETHNICITIES but the SAME Race. They all originate from the same original ancient tribes that inhabitated the region that is now Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan. The difference between a Pakistani Balouch, Pathan and Punjabi is minimal. Especially when compared to the huge, unbrigeable racial differences between Pakistanis and indians/bengalis.

Just want information so asking an OT question if you care to inform.
I heard and also read in some online sites that peoples from side are brown to dark skinned like most Bengalis and indians? Is it true? thank you.
@PAKISTANFOREVER

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The above are different ETHNICITIES but the SAME Race. They all originate from the same original ancient tribes that inhabitated the region that is now Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan. The difference between a Pakistani Balouch, Pathan and Punjabi is minimal. Especially when compared to the huge, unbrigeable racial differences between Pakistanis and indians/bengalis.

Brazilians and Puerto Ricans are also Brown Skinned. Doesn't make them "south Asian"................lol.

Pakistanis are usually more light skinned than indians/bengalis but their features are very different to that of indians/bengalis. Dark Skinned or not. Pakistanis from the South West of the Country (about 40% of our population) are physically and racially identical to Southern Iranians/Persians. If these differences did not exist, Pakistan and bangladesh would never have been created.

 

[Hindustani78]

Bangladesh marks 1971 war victory, honours Indian soldiers
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...an-soldiers/story-lWPwPzA5xhGSEHX3mNZVXN.html

The 1971 war veterans of both Bangladesh and India once again got together to celebrate the victory.
world Updated: Dec 16, 2017 21:15 IST
Press Trust of India, Dhaka

Bangladesh's air force planes release colored smoke during celebrations marking the country's 46th Victory Day in Dhaka, Bangladesh, Saturday, Dec. 16, 2017.(AP Photo)


Bangladesh on Saturday honoured 27 Indian war veterans as it celebrated ‘Victory Day’ marking its emergence as an independent nation following the 1971 Liberation War against Pakistan.

A 31-gun salute marked the occasion while President Abdul Hamid and Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina placed wreaths at the National Memorial at suburban Savar in a pre-dawn ceremony with army bugles playing the ‘Last Post’ while thousands followed them as the nation payed homage to the 1971 martyrs and heroes.

Hamid later joined as the chief guest a parade of armed forces and other state-owned organisations at a ceremony, also attended by the premier at the National Parade Square in the capital.

The 1971 war veterans of both Bangladesh and India once again got together to celebrate the victory.

Twenty-seven 1971 war veterans from India and four serving officers arrived in Dhaka on December 14 to join the celebrations on invitation of the Bangladesh government.

Bangladesh Army Chief General Abu Belal Muhammad Shafiul Huq hosted a reception for them also attended by some Russian military veterans who aided Bangladesh in demining its coastline after the war.

Retired Lieutenant General Jai Bhagwan Singh Yadava, who took part in the 1965 war against Pakistan and the 1971 Liberation War, led the Indian delegation.

“The delegation will also pay homage to Father of the Nation, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman at the Bangabandhu Memorial museum, and 1971 martyrs placing wreaths at ‘Shikha Anirban’ (Flame Eternal) at Dhaka cantonment and visit some of the battle sites of Liberation War,” an official familiar with the visit said.

An Indian High Commission statement said reciprocal visits by Bangladeshi freedom fighters (FFs) and Indian war veterans on Victory Day started in 2005 and over 300 Bangladeshis and 150 Indians have joined celebrations in Kolkata and Dhaka respectively since then.

As part of the celebrations streets and buildings in the capital and other major cities were illuminated overnight.

The war in 1971 began after the sudden crackdown at midnight on March 25 that year in erstwhile East Pakistan by Pakistani troops and ended on December 16 as Pakistan conceded defeat and unconditionally surrendered in Dhaka to the allied forces comprising Bengali freedom fighters and the Indian Army.

Officially three million people were killed during the nine-month-long war in one of the most heinous acts of genocide by Pakistani troops.

 

[Mage]

I am Muslim and it is my identity,culture and life style.

What is Muslim culture anyway? Speaking Islamic language language like Urdu while avoiding Hindu tagorized Bangla? Considering festivals like Pahela Baisakh shirk?

 

[Samurai_assassin]

This is common problem in Banglades too.they (anti Pakistani) always believe that 71 was bangali and panujbi war.
In reality most military members were pathans and yahyha khan was pathan too.
Sharmila bose also pointed out in the book 'dead reckoning' about this blunder.
Everything is about Punjabi, like Punjabi regime, Punjabi army, blah blah...
Perhaps because of tikka khan they think everyone is Punjabi!!

Punjabiphobia yet Bangladeshis seem to be very fond f Sikhs.

Lol,
I am sorry, did you say, that people of different race can not form a single nation?

And as per your new "three nation theory", Since Bengalis of East Pakistan are a different ethnic race from Punjabis of West Pakistan. That is why, they could not coexist in a single nation.

But since Pakistan has several other ethnic races eg Pathans, Baloch , Rajput, Baltis,Muhajirs etc. And these must be several different nations too!

So when can we expect another dismemberment of Pakistan?

Won't happen, Pakistan is a strong nation even nations such as Iraq have not given into Kurdish demands after decades of conflict. What makes you confident that any such dirty tactic by hidustan will not go unpunished?

Bangladesh marks 1971 war victory, honours Indian soldiers
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...an-soldiers/story-lWPwPzA5xhGSEHX3mNZVXN.html

The 1971 war veterans of both Bangladesh and India once again got together to celebrate the victory.
world Updated: Dec 16, 2017 21:15 IST
Press Trust of India, Dhaka

Bangladesh's air force planes release colored smoke during celebrations marking the country's 46th Victory Day in Dhaka, Bangladesh, Saturday, Dec. 16, 2017.(AP Photo)


Bangladesh on Saturday honoured 27 Indian war veterans as it celebrated ‘Victory Day’ marking its emergence as an independent nation following the 1971 Liberation War against Pakistan.

A 31-gun salute marked the occasion while President Abdul Hamid and Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina placed wreaths at the National Memorial at suburban Savar in a pre-dawn ceremony with army bugles playing the ‘Last Post’ while thousands followed them as the nation payed homage to the 1971 martyrs and heroes.

Hamid later joined as the chief guest a parade of armed forces and other state-owned organisations at a ceremony, also attended by the premier at the National Parade Square in the capital.

The 1971 war veterans of both Bangladesh and India once again got together to celebrate the victory.

Twenty-seven 1971 war veterans from India and four serving officers arrived in Dhaka on December 14 to join the celebrations on invitation of the Bangladesh government.

Bangladesh Army Chief General Abu Belal Muhammad Shafiul Huq hosted a reception for them also attended by some Russian military veterans who aided Bangladesh in demining its coastline after the war.

Retired Lieutenant General Jai Bhagwan Singh Yadava, who took part in the 1965 war against Pakistan and the 1971 Liberation War, led the Indian delegation.

“The delegation will also pay homage to Father of the Nation, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman at the Bangabandhu Memorial museum, and 1971 martyrs placing wreaths at ‘Shikha Anirban’ (Flame Eternal) at Dhaka cantonment and visit some of the battle sites of Liberation War,” an official familiar with the visit said.

An Indian High Commission statement said reciprocal visits by Bangladeshi freedom fighters (FFs) and Indian war veterans on Victory Day started in 2005 and over 300 Bangladeshis and 150 Indians have joined celebrations in Kolkata and Dhaka respectively since then.

As part of the celebrations streets and buildings in the capital and other major cities were illuminated overnight.

The war in 1971 began after the sudden crackdown at midnight on March 25 that year in erstwhile East Pakistan by Pakistani troops and ended on December 16 as Pakistan conceded defeat and unconditionally surrendered in Dhaka to the allied forces comprising Bengali freedom fighters and the Indian Army.

Officially three million people were killed during the nine-month-long war in one of the most heinous acts of genocide by Pakistani troops.

Who would have thought 13 years later the Sikhs would have been picking shattered pieces of thier holy temple up?

 

[darksider]

Only 34 thousand combatant troops surrenderd on 16th December 1971 - Dr. Junaid Akram explods the propaganda of India and Bangladesh
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/1971-a-story-of-fear-loss-and-hope.533535/page-10

 

[American Pakistani]

There was no potential three muslim country.Hyderabad was not a muslim region.Muslim was a tiny minority there.Bengal was the largest Muslim block in the sub-continent.More than 1/3rd of all muslim of Sub-continent were living in Bengal.Bengal had muslim population greater in number than all the western Muslim province like Punjab,NWFP,Sindh or Beluchistan combined.

Bengal was the most politically active region in the sub-continent.Muslim league was in power here since 1937, at first as a coalition partner than forrmed govt. unilaterally.The only province where Muslim league got a chance to form govt. before Partition.This largest province of British raj had tremendous influence in all India politics.It was the main power base of Muslim League from where it's claim of muslim representative and muslim voice got legitimacy.Western muslim province specially Punjab and NWFP didn't support Muslim league until very last moment when Muslim league was already the biggest political force in Bengal and among the minority muslims of Bihar and Uttar Pradesh.

The singular event which catalyst the Partition and achievement of Pakistan was the Calcutta riot which triggered the Hindu-Muslim riot all over the Sub-continent.Next was the Noakhali riot in Eest Bengal, then Bihar, then Uttar Pradesh.Communal riot spread in this direction.Only Bengali muslims responded to the call of Jinnah for direct action day for Pakistan and set example of giving blood for Pakistan to achieve it.So how can you say that, Bengal was smaller entity which would not get any chance without the support of West Pakistan? It is actually the other way around.Without the Bengali muslim support, forget about a separate muslim state in the western side of the sub-continent.

I agree with some part of your post, but I believe I was not so clear for you to understand. My apologise. It was obvious Pakistan was to get independence, now for Bangladesh and Hyderabad Deccan, they were surrounded by India completely, Bangladesh from 3 sides plus indian dominance in Bay of Bengal whereas Hyderabad Deccan all four sides. Hyderabad Deccan has Hindu majority but a Muslim ruler and significant Muslim Population whereas Bangladesh have Muslim majority but significant Hindu Population, British and Indians could have force you to stay with india had it been a separate state with the option of migration to Pakistan just like UP and Bihar, Bangladeshi leaders were smart and knew this was going to happen which is why they wanted to be part of Pakistan so that way they could get separate state later. Very smart move IMO.

 

[Photon]

Punjabiphobia yet Bangladeshis seem to be very fond f Sikhs.


Won't happen, Pakistan is a strong nation even nations such as Iraq have not given into Kurdish demands after decades of conflict. What makes you confident that any such dirty tactic by hidustan will not go unpunished?


Who would have thought 13 years later the Sikhs would have been picking shattered pieces of thier holy temple up?

Hey, I firmly believe that, people of all religions , races and ethnicity can coexist together in one nation and your two nation theory is crap. Foremast example are USA and India, where dozens of different races , religions , ethnicity live together harmony.

It is you people, who propagate the crappy ideology dividing people based on religion and race, consequently you will be the first victims of it. As has already happened twice in the past, will continue in the future as well, if you don't mend your ways.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Hey, I firmly believe that, people of all religions , races and ethnicity can coexist together in one nation and your two nation theory is crap. Foremast example are USA and India, where dozens of different races , religions , ethnicity live together harmony.

It is you people, who propagate the crappy ideology dividing people based on religion and race, consequently you will be the first victims of it. As has already happened twice in the past, will continue in the future as well, if you don't mend your ways.

The USA is a multiracial society but it's reigns of power ultimately are in the hands of a White Anglo Saxon Protestant elite. Everyone acknowledges and accepts that fact. Because everyone is treated equally in America there is no opposition to this paradigm.

During the end of British rule, none of the various races and peoples in the then united india wanted to be ruled by the OTHER and were prepared to fight and die to avoid this. Also, the different races subjected eachother to mass intolerance and racism which exists to this day. It can be ironed out in the West but not in a united india, had india not been partitioned.

You claim india is made up of different races and ethnicities but those groups are still very much similar to one another racially and the majority are hindus and sikhs. These differences are insignificant when compared to the unbrigeable racial and genetic differences they have with the Pakistani ethnicities and races. Hence Pakistan HAD to be created just as bangladesh had to be ultimately created.

The above is the reality.


PS Havn't said that, there are many peoples Pakistanis can live side by side and peacefully with, such as Iranians, Turks, Chinese, South Americans, Germans etc. But one race of people we cannot live with and be ruled over by is the indian race. The hatred and animosity between Pakistanis/indians is the most powerful between any different races in the world. We need our own safe space away from those that are foreign to us whom wish us harm.

 

[American Pakistani]

Princely state of Hyderabad was a 87% hindu majority area ruled by Muslim Nizam.It was a land locked state with Indian landmass surrounding from all side.Moreover Hindu majority there agitated to join India.And India was not willing to allow a muslim ruled state inside it's abdomen.So Hyderabad was illegally and forcefully taken by India.These criteria was not present in Bengal then.Bengal was then largest as well as a muslim majority province ruled by Muslim league.In 1946, HS Suhrawardy who was then CM of undivided Bengal declared that, if Congress and British don't agree with Pakistan then Bengal will declare independence unilaterally.Bengal was destined to separate, with or without linkage with western territory.

You can have any opinion you want to, there is no tax on that. The fact that was obvious for Bengali leaders was that without Pakistan it is impossible for Bangladesh to get Independence. It was Pakistan who started demanding independence from both British and Indians. You guys just became part of it later on. Allama Iqbal, Aga Khan are few names that talked about independence before even Jinnah. Jinnah was the man who aggressively fought for that dream.

What claim Pakistan had over Hindu princely state of Bikanir or Jayselmir? that Jinnah gave them blank papers to write down any clause to join Pakistan.He didn't succeeded to win them though.But there was a chance for Tripura.As it's entire economy and transport infrastructure was dependent upon East Bengal and rulers were interested to join Pakistan.There was a possibility that, India would not raised any strong objection in case of Tripura as it didn't have much importance for India unlike the western princely states in Rajasthan.But Jinnah and top muslim leaguer were obsessed with Kashmir and wining princely states in Western sides.So they didn't bother to put any attention for East Pakistan.

Lol, you need to brush up your brain cells somehow, because even you have no clue what you are saying. It' complete nonsense and more nonsense that has been fed into your brains by your rulers, media and propagandists. Just like Bengali leaders, Nawabs of those states too asked Jinnah to merge their states with Pakistan, Jinnah or Pakistan never went there and forced them, neither did Jinnah or Pakistan asked British. Stop spreading nonsense stories and fiction s by presenting half facts. @The Eagle @waz kindly fix this propagandist spreading wrong baseless info just like Bangladeshi claim of 3 million nonsense.

Like I told you, British were not distributing states like channa. There was no chance of Tripura state join Pakistan, if that was possible, why Bangladeshi leaders themselves didn' tried? Why not brought those leaders to Jinnah so Jinnah could ask them for their demands? Most of you guys are turned into bunch of hateful propagandists by your govt.

Kashmir case is completely different. It was supposed to be part of Pakistan. Kashmir historically, culturally, geographically, religiously, linguistically, etc is Pakistan.

 

[Samurai_assassin]

Hey, I firmly believe that, people of all religions , races and ethnicity can coexist together in one nation and your two nation theory is crap. Foremast example are USA and India, where dozens of different races , religions , ethnicity live together harmony.

It is you people, who propagate the crappy ideology dividing people based on religion and race, consequently you will be the first victims of it. As has already happened twice in the past, will continue in the future as well, if you don't mend your ways.

If that was the case Pakistanis would have rejected 3,000 visas for Indian Sikh pilgrims to Pakistan to celebrate Guru Nanaks birthday. At the same time why did Pak issue dozens upon dozens of visas to Indian Hindu pilgrims to visit Pakistan? Remember India has a government in place inspired by the Hindu faith. Pakistan does not have a religious party in power. It's better India mended its ways as Gujurat like atrocities will continue to resurface.

 

[Bilal9]

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was an ethnic Sindi as Gen Yahya Khan was a Pashtun. Where does the Punjabi equation come into it? Is your last statement a threat?

I think when the poster posed the statement he was referring to the power structure which is largely composed of educated FEUDAL landowners of Punjabi origin concentrated and settled in Lahore/Islamabad. The power structure in Pakistan belongs to several families and power and favors are bartered in quid-pro-quo fashion among a few Punjabi and non-Punjabi players.

Bhutto Sahab came from a major FEUDAL landowner family in Sindh who belonged to this Punjabi milieu.

Yahya Khan himself was born in Chakwal, Punjab in a Pashtun family and as a fauji leader/despot belonged to the same milieu.

You don't have to be Punjabi to belong to that Punjabi milieu that controls everything in Pakistan in feudal fashion. The equality of wealth distribution in Pakistan is probably the lowest in the subcontinent. But I will not go into it because I am a non-Pakistani.

Here's some nuggets from Wiki about Yahya Khan regarding 1971.

"The American political scientist Lawrence Ziring observed that,

Yahya Khan has been widely portrayed as a ruthless uncompromising insensitive and grossly inept leader ... While Yahya cannot escape responsibility for these tragic events, it is also on record that he did not act alone ... All the major actors of the period were creatures of a historic legacy and a psycho-political milieu which did not lend itself to accommodation and compromise, to bargaining and a reasonable settlement. Nurtured on conspiracy theories, they were all conditioned to act in a manner that neglected agreeable solutions and promoted violent judgments.[29]

Yahya Khan attempted to solve Pakistan's constitutional and inter-provincial/regional rivalry problems once he took over power from Ayub Khan in March 1969. The tragedy of the whole affair was the fact that all actions that Yahya took, although correct in principle, were too late in timing, and served only to further intensify the political polarisation between the East and West wings."

When we are talking about people who "neglected agreeable solutions and promoted violent judgments" - we are talking about a mentality which has as its source, feudal rule. But feudalism, while it always worked in Pakistan (and maybe even does today), is not guaranteed to work everywhere else.

 

[4GTejasBVR]

Guys stop baiting each other.

There was Indian complicity on one hand and Pakistani folly on the other.

A lot of East Pakistanis (and West Pakistanis as well) would have been just fine with self-governance, a separate self-rule government. There was even talk of separate currency at one point. It would have been a mini European union. But manic-depressive Bhutto's ego and ham-fisted political tactics with the Sheikh caused all issues.

Indians had little to do in early 1971, they only remotely assisted the turn of events except walking in at the last minute (in December, when weather dried up) and claiming credit. Yes we acknowledge their contribution in housing and arming us. But the majority of the war of attrition was attributed to guerrilla warfare by Mukti Fauj.

Indians had little to do?

And Pakistan full of muslim majority is like mini Europe. Can u explain how india which is mini multi continent still supreme and successful? Even add territories.

 

[BATMAN]

 

[Samurai_assassin]

I think when the poster posed the statement he was referring to the power structure which is largely composed of educated FEUDAL landowners of Punjabi origin concentrated and settled in Lahore/Islamabad. The power structure in Pakistan belongs to several families and power and favors are bartered in quid-pro-quo fashion among a few Punjabi and non-Punjabi players.

Bhutto Sahab came from a major FEUDAL landowner family in Sindh who belonged to this Punjabi milieu.

Yahya Khan himself was born in Chakwal, Punjab in a Pashtun family and as a fauji leader/despot belonged to the same milieu.

You don't have to be Punjabi to belong to that Punjabi milieu that controls everything in Pakistan in feudal fashion. The equality of wealth distribution in Pakistan is probably the lowest in the subcontinent. But I will not go into it because I am a non-Pakistani.

Here's some nuggets from Wiki about Yahya Khan regarding 1971.

"The American political scientist Lawrence Ziring observed that,

Yahya Khan has been widely portrayed as a ruthless uncompromising insensitive and grossly inept leader ... While Yahya cannot escape responsibility for these tragic events, it is also on record that he did not act alone ... All the major actors of the period were creatures of a historic legacy and a psycho-political milieu which did not lend itself to accommodation and compromise, to bargaining and a reasonable settlement. Nurtured on conspiracy theories, they were all conditioned to act in a manner that neglected agreeable solutions and promoted violent judgments.[29]

Yahya Khan attempted to solve Pakistan's constitutional and inter-provincial/regional rivalry problems once he took over power from Ayub Khan in March 1969. The tragedy of the whole affair was the fact that all actions that Yahya took, although correct in principle, were too late in timing, and served only to further intensify the political polarisation between the East and West wings."

When we are talking about people who "neglected agreeable solutions and promoted violent judgments" - we are talking about a mentality which has as its source, feudal rule. But feudalism, while it always worked in Pakistan (and maybe even does today), is not guaranteed to work everywhere else.

The only powerful Punjabis alive today are Shareef brothers. The army has a strong Punjabi and Pashtun mix. I would ask a Bangladeshi to visit urban cities of Pakistan's Punjab province and see the varied mix of people. Sikhs recently visited Pakistan and were shocked at the hospitality they recieved despite being responsible for the ultimate massacre of Punjabs Muslim population in 1947. Just as Bangladesh is reality so is Pakistan. The consequences would be disasterarous for the region if any attempt was made to destroy either nation. Pakistan has absolutely zero interest to indulge in such matter as it has no political influence in Bangladesh. However we cannot speak for India's ambition especially of the ideology of Akand Bharat.