10 most Westoxified countries in Asia?

[pin gu]

Jalal Al Ahmad, Son of a Shi"ite clergyman, was born in 1923 in Tehran. His early education consisted of the normal Iranian curriculum in the 1930s as well as study of the French and English. In 1946 he graduated from Teachers College and became a teacher. He pursued academic studies at Tehran University and received an MA in Persian literature.

Al Ahmad joined the Tudeh Party shortly after World War II. In late 1940’s he distanced himself from Tudeh Pary as it was openly pro Soviet. He supported the Oil Nationalization movement of Dr. Mohammad Mosaddeq nationalist government. Following the 1953 CIA orchestrated coup d"état Al Ahmad was imprisoned for several years.

In 1950, Al Ahmad married with Simin Daneshvar another young and energic writer. However, from 1945 to 1968 he wrote novels, essays, travelogues and ethnographic monographs.

The subjects of his works were mainly cultural, social and political issues, symbolic representations and sarcastic expressions. In his works he paid attention to the superstitious beliefs of the common people and their exploitation by Shi’ite clergy.

He has translated some French works into Persian; like ‘Les mains sales’ by Jean-Paul Sartre and ‘The Gambler’ by Fyodor Dostoyevsky.

Al Ahmad traveled to poor and far-off regions of Iran and tried to document their life, culture and problems. Some of these monographs are mentioned below.

In 1962, Al Ahmad published “Gharbzadegi” commonly translated into English as ‘Weststruckness’, which is his most famous critical essay. In ‘Gharbzadegi’ he writes a ‘stinging critique of western technology and civilization.

He argued that the decline of traditional Iranian industries such as carpet-weaving were the beginning of Western ‘economic and existential victories over the East.’

His message was widely embraced by Ayatollah Khomeini and later by other revolutionaries during the 1979 Iranian revolution.

Al Ahmad died in 1969; commonly believed he was poisoned by the agents of SAVAK, Shah"s security service.

Jalal Al-e Ahmad and Simin Daneshvar, Autumn of 1957, Shemiran, Tehran

 

[Species]

Well it's a very loose term and the seed of it is defeat that has not been overcome. Instead it has persisted, rotting away and infecting peoples minds in many negative ways. Ultimately it is failure to take defeat, accept it, learn from it and move on.

How does it express itself? By opposing all and everthing that are explicit trappings of Western societies even if they have nothing to do with West like you said pants. So those who came up with this term and those who use it [I entirely disagree with this term] will go after pants, jeans, skirts and other aspects as indicators that a person is "westoxified". It could also be because they hold liberal values which they equate to the West.

A crude example of this "defeatism" which gave birth to the notion of "westoxification" can be seen in summits of world leaders. Watch out for "ethnic dress". Only countries that have history of poverty, defeated, colonized, raped, repressed and have failed to overcome these aspects of their history will find it neccessarry to tout pride in "ethnic clothing". It's form of reductive cowardice that can't handle the substance but has found ways to get solace in the superficial. Watch out for failing African states who leaders will swag about in "ethnic dress". This also applies to the countries in Asia who were defeated by the West and have not recovered.`It exposes lack of confidence. Something they accuse others of by calling them westoxified. I came across this in Pakistan when I first went there in the 1980s. The lady in front right is Bangladesh PM. Not too long ago called the "international basketcase". The blag guy in the back row is probably from some failing African country but finds nothing greater to show but his ethnic dress.

What a pathetic statement! More or less all the countries in Asia/Africa have a history of poverty, colonialization, defeat etc. While traditional dresses are worn by many state leaders from Saudi Arabia to Nigeria. Heck even leaders from Bhutan which has no history of colonialism, wear their traditional attire in such summits. So all of these leaders wear their traditional dresses because they lack confidence or suffer from defeatism?

Tell me honestly, you decide to post these garbage on PDF after failing to publish your 'intellectual analysis' in the peer-reviewed journals, ain't it?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

traditional dresses because they lack confidence or suffer from defeatism?

Yes.

 

[vostok]

writer himself (Jalal ale-ahmad ) considers Russia as not west .

This is logical. I also do not consider Russia as part of the West. It was the USSR the archenemy of the Western Empires and colonialism in the 20th century.

 

[Tshering22]

Well it's a very loose term and the seed of it is defeat that has not been overcome. Instead it has persisted, rotting away and infecting peoples minds in many negative ways. Ultimately it is failure to take defeat, accept it, learn from it and move on.

How does it express itself? By opposing all and everthing that are explicit trappings of Western societies even if they have nothing to do with West like you said pants. So those who came up with this term and those who use it [I entirely disagree with this term] will go after pants, jeans, skirts and other aspects as indicators that a person is "westoxified". It could also be because they hold liberal values which they equate to the West.

A crude example of this "defeatism" which gave birth to the notion of "westoxification" can be seen in summits of world leaders. Watch out for "ethnic dress". Only countries that have history of poverty, defeated, colonized, raped, repressed and have failed to overcome these aspects of their history will find it neccessarry to tout pride in "ethnic clothing". It's form of reductive cowardice that can't handle the substance but has found ways to get solace in the superficial. Watch out for failing African states who leaders will swag about in "ethnic dress". This also applies to the countries in Asia who were defeated by the West and have not recovered.`It exposes lack of confidence. Something they accuse others of by calling them westoxified. I came across this in Pakistan when I first went there in the 1980s. The lady in front right is Bangladesh PM. Not too long ago called the "international basketcase". The blag guy in the back row is probably from some failing African country but finds nothing greater to show but his ethnic dress.

Not really.

Sri Lanka is a quiet and decently placed country; their president wears traditional dress with pride. Saudi Arabia, your mentor, is a super rich country with some of the swankiest infrastructure and facilities available to mankind. Their king wears traditional dress.

In fact, kings of some of the most successful Gulf countries proudly wear their traditional clothes even in international summits. Israelis also wear their traditional clothes (although it only involves in wearing the yarmulke on the head).

Our PM wears traditional dress as well and it greatly suits him.

What's wrong in them?

Clothes do not identify the measure of success.

These clothes were designed to adapt to the local conditions available.

It looks absolutely foolish when someone from the plains such as Delhi or Punjab or some other plainland place, is wearing a full blown suit, sweating his bu++ off in 45 degrees heat and running quickly from one AC room to another. Europeans wearing suits for formal events makes sense since their average temperature is between 20-30 degrees at the worst on a normal basis.

Taking pride in tradition is not wrong.

 

[ito]

India should be at the top. They way Indians running after everything west, India should be at the top

 

[ashok mourya]

Sorry to say most India's Christian are westernized so as most north Indian Muslim are westernized Arabs.Indian politician mostly follow traditional wear rather than western clothes.I think Hindus least westernized,still our marriages function brings tradition feelings and indianess to us.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Saudi Arabia

Saudia and GCC are epitome of defeatism and only recently left the clutches of colonial subjugation - some would argue they still are. Sri Lanka is a poor developing country.All the example you gave strengthen my case. Countries that have gone on to become across the spectrum developed and not one shot wonders like Taiwan, China, Japan, Koreas [both], Singapore, Turkey establish my case. Some of the biggest failed or failing states or those with extreme poverty are the ones whose leaders walk into UN with swagger wearing traitional clothing delecting from the fact that they have no real pride and have reduced that to clothing.

This is logical. I also do not consider Russia as part of the West.

Only as far as international geo-politics. However at civilizational/cultural level Russia is certainly part of the West. I know some Russians/Kazaks in UK and they fit here like hands in gloves. They are just another permutation of the West.

The Russians remind of Germans before WW2. Part of the West but struggling to fit in the pecking order. Meaning they felt they should be right at the top of the list whereas the established pecking order was not prepared to do that. WW2 and defeat resolved that issue and now they [Germans] have taken their place in the row.

 

[vostok]

Only as far as international geo-politics. However at civilizational/cultural level Russia is certainly part of the West. I know some Russians/Kazaks in UK and they fit here like hands in gloves. They are just another permutation of the West.

The Russians remind of Germans before WW2. Part of the West but struggling to fit in the pecking order. Meaning they felt they should be right at the top of the list whereas the established pecking order was not prepared to do that. WW2 and defeat resolved that issue and now they [Germans] have taken their place in the row.

We are a white Christian people, but we are not part of the West in its Anglo-American dimension. We have Orthodoxy, instead of Catholicism / Protestantism, we take communal above individual etc.
Germany never could become a real rival to Britain / America, because the Germans are too genetically related to the Anglo-Saxons. It is rather intra-Germanic competition. The Germans do not perceive the Anglo-American occupation as something shameful and unacceptable. Therefore, they do not strive for an independence. Russia is a completely different matter. For us, the Germanic tribes / Catholicism / West - a threat to existence. Until the West gives up its intention to dominate Russia, Russia can never become part of the West.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

West in its Anglo-American dimension.

The West in it's present form goes beyond religion - although religion has played a hand in the making of the Western tradition. Being Eastern Orthodox does not in any way preclude you from the Western civilization. Have a look around in Moscow. What do you see? Just another iteration of the Western civilization including the infatuation of the Graeco-Roman of antiquity when neither Romans or Greeks even sneezed near Moscow or gor that matter Washington or Berlin. Today those cties are manifestation of that Western fascination and that can be seen how Berlin, Moscow or Washington look more Athens then Athênai.

And everything you described looks like a family quarrel and who gets to be number one.

 

[vostok]

The West in it's present form goes beyond religion - although religion has played a hand in the making of the Western tradition. Being Eastern Orthodox does not in any way preclude you from the Western civilization. Have a look around in Moscow. What do you see? Just another iteration of the Western civilization including the infatuation of the Graeco-Roman of antiquity when neither Romans or Greeks even sneezed near Moscow or gor that matter Washington or Berlin. Today those cties are manifestation of that Western fascination and that can be seen how Berlin, Moscow or Washington look more Athens then Athênai.

And everything you described looks like a family quarrel and who gets to be number one.

I do not deny that the Russians are Europeans (Eastern Europe is much larger, then Western one) in terms of race, culture and faith. However, I insist that the Americans do not have a monopoly on the vision of the future. We have our own plans for the future of this world and Russia will never become a colony, like Germany or Japan.
We share common cultural and racial origins with Westerners, but politically we will never become part of the West until the Americans realize that they are just one of the peoples and not the only people.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Until the West gives up its intention to dominate Russia,.

What is this supposed to mean?

How are we trying to dominate you?
If you stay on your side of the border we have no beef with you. Do your own thing...we aren't complaining. The only reason you feel like we are trying to dominate you is because you are perpetually 20 years behind us. If you don't want to look at us for inspiration then go look at China and see who they are now following so they can move forward...and it isn't you this time...they adapted their system.

That easily could have been you guys instead...but we chose them over you...to show you guys how change is the way..since you lost your way 100 years ago..and before you could always say to yourselves "well at least we aren't worse than backwards barrel-burning China"...well now you are...and you are going to be LAST.

In fact...back to your thoughts on Russia not being Western..are you going to add all of Eastern Europe to that too? Because If you don't you just admitted you were trying to dominate the West by occupying non-Eastern countries. So I guess you'll have to enlighten us as to where the line exactly is..and when you do PDF members in those countries can speak up.

You've disappointed us. Your brainpower should have figured out fusion by now for us all. You've wasted that brainpower for decades. We have to do everything...from ballpoint pens to the Voyager spacecraft in interstellar space. You guys have underperformed technologically and we categorically blame your backwards government for keeping your smart people from shining.

 

[vostok]

What is this supposed to mean?

First of all - do not place troops near our borders. Secondly - stop pretending that only your system of values has the right to life. Third, stop making state coup d'état at least in the states bordering with Russia. Fourth, start negotiating with other countries, and not bomb them or dictate them.
You are just one of the nations of the Earth, not the only one.

 

[wiseone2]

I do not deny that the Russians are Europeans (Eastern Europe is much larger, then Western one) in terms of race, culture and faith. However, I insist that the Americans do not have a monopoly on the vision of the future. We have our own plans for the future of this world and Russia will never become a colony, like Germany or Japan.
We share common cultural and racial origins with Westerners, but politically we will never become part of the West until the Americans realize that they are just one of the peoples and not the only people.

Traditionally Russians have looked to Germany for help in modernizing her economy and society
These days who do you look to ?

Okay which are [in order] the ten most westoxified countries in Asia. Westoxified has roots in workld by Iranian writer Jalal Ahmed.

"Persian gharbzadegi. Term coined by the Iranian secular intellectual Jalal al-e Ahmad to describe the fascination with and dependence upon the West to the detriment of traditional, historical, and cultural ties to Islam and Islamic world. Defined as an indiscriminate borrowing from and imitation of the West, joining the twin dangers of cultural imperialism and political domination."

Although this term was coined with referance to Islamic culture but we can use "native culture" as the benchmark. The degree of movement toward Western thought to the detriment of "native roots" can be measure of westoxification. This is my list of the most westoxified countries in Asia.


1. China
2. South Korea
3. Japan
4. Singapore
5 Philipines
6. Kazakstan
7. Azerbaijhan
8. Turkey
9. Lebonan
10.Uzbekistan

Lets have your list and critical thought/reasons. Don't forget this relates to the country as a whole or major determinant share of the population that can leverage the direction the country takes. The aggregate effect of this can be felt on the street level in the prevailing culture.

These would be the criteria
language - how much English do you use ?
clothing - how much traditional dress you have left ?
culture - how much traditional cultural practices are left ?
politics - how is government structured ?
religion - traditional religion versus Christianity
society - what are social mores ? status of women. issues of divorce, gays etc.

by no means this is comprehensive

Not really.

Our PM wears traditional dress as well and it greatly suits him.

What's wrong in them?

Clothes do not identify the measure of success.

These clothes were designed to adapt to the local conditions available.

It looks absolutely foolish when someone from the plains such as Delhi or Punjab or some other plainland place, is wearing a full blown suit, sweating his bu++ off in 45 degrees heat and running quickly from one AC room to another. Europeans wearing suits for formal events makes sense since their average temperature is between 20-30 degrees at the worst on a normal basis.

Taking pride in tradition is not wrong.

you make it sound all Westerners live in temperate regions of the world

 

[vostok]

Traditionally Russians have looked to Germany for help in modernizing her economy and society
These days who do you look to ?

In fact, traditionally, Russia was something like protector of the German states (Austria, Prussia), because a single Germany emerged only in 1861.
Russia still supports Germany's desire for independence and de-occupation and is ready for trade and cooperation in all areas.