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  1. Sapper

    Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

    Just to add, these flying hours are only on Vipers, it is noteworthy that in Pakistan, it takes 500~1500 hours on F7/Mirage3-5 just to qualify for a Viper posting. Regards, Sapper
  2. Sapper

    Narrowing PAF Gap V IAF by 2015

    Dear, Read this report regarding Dhruv, http://cag.gov.in/html/reports/commercial/2010-11_10PA/chap3.pdf Its only a matter of time before similar report surfaces about LCA, no wonder why IAF hasn't inducted it yet. I am quoting Conclusions presented at the End of the Report ...
  3. Sapper

    Narrowing PAF Gap V IAF by 2015

    PAC has three factories, 1. Mirage Rebuilt Factory, Used to completely strip down and rebuilt a Mirage 3/5 airframe from spares bought from many many sources. 2. F-6 Rebuilt Factory, now changed to dedicated F-7 overhaul/rebuild factory. 3. Aircraft Manufacturing Factory, manufacturing...
  4. Sapper

    JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

    It Looks More like JF-17 -- 10-111 (Crescent is clearly visible on wing) than JF-17 -- 08-101 Its seems to be a fairly recent Photo if its showing 10-111. Regards, Sapper
  5. Sapper

    JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

    After Lecturing me not to use Wikipedia as source, you are citing Wiki. Some standards you got brother. Dear just tell me ... At Take Off, a plane weighed at 20,020 pounds, with Pilot, Wingtip AAMs, and all the Coolants. Minus the Fuel it weighed 14, 890 Lbs. Minus Pilot it weighed 14,690 Lbs...
  6. Sapper

    JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

    Dear, I never used the Empty Weight, I derived it from TOGW (as per PAC site, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....) which is Take Off Gross Weight. It Includes everything, including Pilot+Gear, All Coolants+Lubricants and as per site 2X Wingtip AAMs (usually PL-5Cs). This was to mathematically...
  7. Sapper

    JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

    Dear TOGW (Take-Off-Gross-Weight) with Wingtip Missiles is 9,100 Kg which turns out to be 20,020 Lbs. 20,020 Lbs (Total) - 5130 Lbs (Fuel) - 200 Lbs of (Pilot+Gear) - 100 Lbs (Coolents+Lubricants) = 14590 Lbs = 6631 Kg I Believe this 6630Kg figure (Extremely Close to 6586Kg you quoted) is...
  8. Sapper

    Narrowing PAF Gap V IAF by 2015

    Good post, but a few correction is needed here; (I fully agree to your comments that new Bl52 F16s add a huge huge punch to our airforce, but consider these as just FYI items) 1. Precision Guided Munition, Especially LGB were already available since first F16 induction in 1980s, pictures of...
  9. Sapper

    JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

    Dear, Go to this page, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.... Zoom on the Brochure and check what is written against 9100 Kg ... (2 X Tip Missiles); 9,100Kg = 20,020Lb. This is just to tell you that from the very beginning most of the JF17 revealed has been including the Wing-Tip Missiles...
  10. Sapper

    JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

    Yes, that's stupid, I agree, but what can we do, PAC/CATIC chose to display figures including wingtip AAMs. In case you think I am Lying, you can check on Wiki yourself. Regards, Sapper
  11. Sapper

    JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

    Dear, Do you know that the Wingspan and Weight specified in PAC official brochures and everywhere else includes the two wingtip WVRAAMs weighing around 120 Kg (PL-5C) each. Remove those from calculations and you will easily derive the TWR ratio of greater than unity. Regards, Sapper
  12. Sapper

    Narrowing PAF Gap V IAF by 2015

    Well Dear, Ever heard of an industry term called Design Freeze ? And if you consider Rafale a success story, then i can only wish that you pray for same success for LCA. You do know what does the word Success mean ? do you. Btw, i never said LCA/Rafale are failed projects either, they didn't...
  13. Sapper

    Narrowing PAF Gap V IAF by 2015

    You better not try to defend a failing program by citing the example of another failed/failing platform. Mirage 3/5/2000 has been the biggest success story of Dassault. More than two dozen airforces proudly owned and operated these extremely capable fighting machines, and still do. But none of...
  14. Sapper

    Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

    Dear, The 2006 Price at which Pakistan Ordered F16 Bl52+ was almost 65 Mil USD, coming up to little less than 80 Mil USD (with spares) per unit. The figure you have quoted is quite old. Also, the J10B estimated induction cost in 2014~2015 is around 40~45 Mil USD (with spares) per unit...
  15. Sapper

    Osprey Aircraft May Aid Pakistan Relief

    I thank USA for their support during my homeland's troubling times. The aid they are giving us is "humanitarian" and the aid we require is humanitarian as well, and there should be no ulterior motive for both parties. This is no competition or political point scoring contest. They have given...
  16. Sapper

    JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

    Dear, I am sorry to inform you that you are mistaken. Kamra is very low altitude area, and the airbase in question is only 1250 feet high from sea level. The highest airbase is Skardu Forward Operating Base (FOB), which is 7500 feet above sea level, with Quetta Air Base (full fledged airbase)...
  17. Sapper

    JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

    At 12~13 second mark in video, a board passes by on which the GPS coordinates of the base are written. According to the board, i.e.( N-31"49'42 , E-36"47'58 ), it is "Shaheed Mwaffaq" Airbase in Jordan. Regards, Sapper
  18. Sapper

    PAF participates in "Red Flag" and "Green Flag"

    In this picture, Captain Waseem (bottom left) is wearing A-5 patch alongside the Griffin Squadron Patch. A-5s are to be decommissioned within this year or next year max, and replaced with JF-17. I think its a good move to bring along pilots who will be transferring to JF-17s, and training them...
  19. Sapper

    Amazing planes that failed

    A few Flaws of LCA It took HAL 20 years to finalize a Delta design, just enough time to find out that rest of the entire world has moved on to Delta-Canards. They are trying to fix this by using LEVCONs. It also seems odd that HAL chose to build-up a Top mounted wing while all the rest of...
  20. Sapper

    Pakistan wants combat copters

    Dear, Aircraft like A-10, predator and the likes are excellent in beating up an already "Beaten" foe, an enemy who has no SAMs, no fighter aircrafts, ineffective Ack-Ack and no radars. That is the only reason why they are effective in Iraq and Afghanistan. Only egoistic super powers can afford...
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