A Day with Pakistan Marine.

Pakistan slowly needs to increase Marine Size after Gawader gets fully operational its size should be increase to 80000 at least and with that 8000 SSGN force equipped with Amphibious IFV and Tanks and also other equipment.

Sarge said:

i cant see the video link.

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Ulla said:

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awesome display of firepower.

Thats a massive force projection into enemy area

Check the amount of firepower from boats
@Ulla

Ulla said:

This one needs a bigger cabin, to give the crew all weather shelter and protection from the sea.
View attachment 334119

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That one, a CB90, can accommodate 21 fully armed troops internally.


They can "roll up" on a beach, the front doors open and fully armed troops can embark dry:






I'd recommend a type similar to the Finnish Jurmo Class landing craft:





Don't let the scale of the above picture of the Jurmo's troop compartment fool you, they're actually rather large inside:


Some Jurmo class boats have been fitted with Patria's 120mm Nemo mortar for near-to-shore fire support.

Sarge said:

Check the amount of firepower from boats
@Ulla

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Ah yes, the Combatant Craft Crewman - tasked with infiltrating and exfiltration SEAL teams. Those boats are Special Operations Craft - Riverine, or SOC-R for short.

They pack some serious firepower onto a small frame:







Here's a great video of SWCC teams in action:


The good action starts at 3:30.

Sarge said:

Check the amount of firepower from boats
@Ulla

Click to expand...

Maddy Lynn said:

Ah yes, the Combatant Craft Crewman - tasked with infiltrating and exfiltration SEAL teams. Those boats are Special Operations Craft - Riverine, or SOC-R for short.

They pack some serious firepower onto a small frame:

Here's a great video of SWCC teams in action:

The good action starts at 3:30.

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Is it possible to produce such boats at KSEW ?




Check this both, I think the first one is produced in Pakistan, the second is from Indonesia and is equipped with a 12.7mm AA gun:

@Ulla

remember the discussion we had

Signalian said:

@Ulla

remember the discussion we had

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Yes it was a productive rounde!

A Mixed Defensive/Offensive Force Should be build
The Goal is blocking enemy forces from taking or maneuvering through Pakistani Territory to pressure the state in other areas

The bulk of the force should be an asymmetric blocking force; getting inside the OODA loop of any potential force (which could mean marine operations such as espionage deep in enemy territory over a prolonged period of time to know in advance how an enemy will maneuver, and thereby be best able with least effort to blunt if not repel the enemy, and bog down their force in a side show)

cheap unattended ground and underwater sensor grids, dual purpose built development in the ran of the kutch to serve as a civilian infrastructure in peacetime and a military fortress in times of hostility

guiding precision fire from assets over the horizon, such as mobile artillery or sensor fuzed weapon on cheap cruise missiles to destroy armor thrust
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on the offensive side; the marines can go behind enemy lines to destroy enemy mobilization assets, fuel and ammo dumps, spare parts and repair depots, fiber optic cable between headquarters units on the front lines; or better yet hack the networks to spread disinformation and false orders (none of this requires the latest equipement, but ingenuity such as the Vietcong, Hezbollah, and us forces in exercise Millenium Challenge 2002 under general Van Riper)

a good documentary to watch to understand how a large conventional force can be easily derailed


for a smaller asymmetric force sowing chaos in a larger conventional enemy and buying time can be half the battle

FuturePAF said:

A Mixed Defensive/Offensive Force Should be build
The Goal is blocking enemy forces from taking or maneuvering through Pakistani Territory to pressure the state in other areas

The bulk of the force should be an asymmetric blocking force; getting inside the OODA loop of any potential force (which could mean marine operations such as espionage deep in enemy territory over a prolonged period of time to know in advance how an enemy will maneuver, and thereby be best able with least effort to blunt if not repel the enemy, and bog down their force in a side show)

cheap unattended ground and underwater sensor grids, dual purpose built development in the ran of the kutch to serve as a civilian infrastructure in peacetime and a military fortress in times of hostility

guiding precision fire from assets over the horizon, such as mobile artillery or sensor fuzed weapon on cheap cruise missiles to destroy armor thrust
-------

Click to expand...

If PM is made a capable force with good weaponry, comparable to an Army Brigade, it can surely block an Indian CSD IBG in the Sindh region. For accomplishing this, PM would need MBT, APC, Artillery, AD and aviation assets.

on the offensive side; the marines can go behind enemy lines to destroy enemy mobilization assets, fuel and ammo dumps, spare parts and repair depots, fiber optic cable between headquarters units on the front lines; or better yet hack the networks to spread disinformation and false orders (none of this requires the latest equipement, but ingenuity such as the Vietcong, Hezbollah, and us forces in exercise Millenium Challenge 2002 under general Van Riper)

Click to expand...

SSG (N) is used for this purpose, although PM can be made air assault capable on the lines of Light Commando Battalions of PA. This will lift the burden from SF components. PM would need dedicated assets.

a good documentary to watch to understand how a large conventional force can be easily derailed

for a smaller asymmetric force sowing chaos in a larger conventional enemy and buying time can be half the battle

Click to expand...

Smaller combined forces have been used successfully to dislodge bigger forces from their main path of attack.

Signalian said:

If PM is made a capable force with good weaponry, comparable to an Army Brigade, it can surely block an Indian CSD IBG in the Sindh region. For accomplishing this, PM would need MBT, APC, Artillery, AD and aviation assets.

SSG (N) is used for this purpose, although PM can be made air assault capable on the lines of Light Commando Battalions of PA. This will lift the burden from SF components. PM would need dedicated assets.

Smaller combined forces have been used successfully to dislodge bigger forces from their main path of attack.

Click to expand...

Your thinking too conventional and not as nimble. You should think of them like the US Navy Seals or French Foreign Legion; tough as nails, not necessarily using heavy weapons platforms, but able to strike quick, strike hard, and strike in unexpected places. Tanks, Artillery, APC are all slow to mobilize and can get bogged down in conventional battle plans that fall under the army's border defense plans.

A Big part of their role has to be espionage, deep in enemy territory; including military garrison cities in Gujrat , and where they base their naval assets all along their coastline.

weapons systems should be lighter fast recon vehicles armed with anti-tank missiles
the goal should be a blocking force, with the ability to call in targets for the larger Pakistan Army and Pakistan Navy to engage.

A good war to study for this type of warfare would be the Iran-Iraq War and the Two Gulf Wars and see how battles happened on the Al-Faw Pennisula and surrounding coastlines.

FuturePAF said:

Your thinking too conventional and not as nimble. You should think of them like the US Navy Seals or French Foreign Legion; tough as nails, not necessarily using heavy weapons platforms, but able to strike quick, strike hard, and strike in unexpected places. Tanks, Artillery, APC are all slow to mobilize and can get bogged down in conventional battle plans that fall under the army's border defense plans.

A Big part of their role has to be espionage, deep in enemy territory; including military garrison cities in Gujrat , and where they base their naval assets all along their coastline.

weapons systems should be lighter fast recon vehicles armed with anti-tank missiles
the goal should be a blocking force, with the ability to call in targets for the larger Pakistan Army and Pakistan Navy to engage.

A good war to study for this type of warfare would be the Iran-Iraq War and the Two Gulf Wars and see how battles happened on the Al-Faw Pennisula and surrounding coastlines.

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Buddy, read the post again.

I have mentioned air assault and LCB type , apart from the regular heavy weaponry formation, which is conventional.

As for light fast recon and attack vehicles, US Army tried the idea with 9th Infantry Division and it failed miserably. The whole formation cannot use that.

PA is versatile, it has infantry, armor, artillery, AD etc along with Light commando/air assault role formation and dedicated SF. PM although a small formation should be able to form an offensive punch

Signalian said:

Buddy, read the post again.

I have mentioned air assault and LCB type , apart from the regular heavy weaponry formation, which is conventional.

As for light fast recon and attack vehicles, US Army tried the idea with 9th Infantry Division and it failed miserably. The whole formation cannot use that.

PA is versatile, it has infantry, armor, artillery, AD etc along with Light commando/air assault role formation and dedicated SF. PM although a small formation should be able to form an offensive punch

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I agree the whole formation can't be light recon vehicles, but I'm weary of spending huge sums of platforms and not on strategy. In 1965 Pakistan tried airborne troops, but they quickly met with large numbers of enemy forces and their effects were marginal. The cost in resources and planning, and rely on the operation in the overall strategy was a waste of valuable resources. A hybrid force of light tanks and IFVs with active protection devolving decision making to more junior ranked officers in the midst of battle would be a good start. something akin to the US army's Future combat systems would be a strong model for a brigade.

While FCS was cancelled, some of the ideas should be examined when forming the Pakistan Marines

My worry is too much would go to just forming a super conventional brigade with a few helicopter units added for maneuver warfare; hammer and anvil; pincer movements. the tactics would remain nearly be the same, and expensive helicopters and weapons systems would be easily engaged and neutralized by enemy forces. I fear it would become a new sideshow like the 1965 airborne assault.

Why not work on developing the terrain to our advantage; remote sensor grids instead of large numbers of ground troops. Let them cross over the border, target their air defense units and then send in waves of cruise missiles carrying sensor fused weapons; knocking out the rest of their armored units. spending money on that allows use to focus on knocking out their c4isr units and key war-making nodes; like fuel, ammo, fiber optic networks, communications, etc.

think of it like a modern battle of the trench. Shape the landscape and sow discord in your enemy.

Could you elaborate on what exactly was the failures of the 9th ID light recon force structure.