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Ziaur Rahman didn't fire a shot at Pakistani forces, says PM Sheikh Hasina

Cookie Monster

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Petty politics. Besides the same is true for all the AL leaders.

A commander doesn't have to actually fire a bullet during the war. His soldiers do it for him.
I don't know how long this lady can keep milking 1971 and use Pakistan as the boogeyman to purge(in various ways) any meaningful opposition...only to further her hold on power...
...I mean she already got it...her seat isn't going away anytime soon. At this point this same old tune is just getting boring.
 

Pak Nationalist

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The then government of Bangladesh invited the Indian Army to join its Mukti Bahini to expel the aggressive foreign Pakistani troops from the soil of Bangladesh.

India happily complied. But, why? Because the thick-headed Punjabi-Pathan generals of Pakistan expelled about 9 million Hindus from their homeland who took shelter in a poor India.

Your generals forgot, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Why did you arrest Mujib instead of handing him the state power by calling a national assembly session? Your ZA Bhutto told Mujib, "Udhar Tum Aur Idhar Hum". So, who wanted to break Pakistan?

Was it not your generals, population, and politicians? After all, we are composed of Kala, Nanga, Bhukha Aur Nata people! Tall Punjabis and Pathans were ashamed of eating at the same table with us the Kala Admi although these Kala Admi brought Pakistan.

Now, we have built our separate table. Our jute was exploited by the tall guys and now we have moved to garments with $35 billion export that cannot be exploited by them.

Do you think India is taking away our money as you did for 24 years?
Much of what you said is true, and Pakistanis, including this one, feel ashamed of how we treated our brothers in the East (particularly in terms of lack of economic justice) till the eve of the 1971 elections, which provided fertile grounds for resentment to grow in. Hindus are still persecuted in present-day Bangladesh (this was not unique to West Pakistani behavior). Mujib fought and won the 71 elections on the 6 point agenda, ending Pakistan as a federation. He was compromised way before (in the 60s) by the Indian intelligence. West Pakistani leaders like Bhutto (a power-hungry opportunist) and Yahya (an incompetent coward and a moron of the highest order) ensured that the unity of Pakistan was not preserved even in a diluted form. It is also true that the Muslims of Bengal spearheaded the freedom struggle, but a minority did not accommodate the majority for much of our shared history. Poor Pakistan has been hosting over 3 million Afghans, but we never invaded that country to mitigate the effect of civil strife there on ourselves. India became the aggressor out of its own volition. Manekshaw was asked by Indira to prepare for war 9 months in advance of the December 1971 open hostilities. Kabul regime pleaded with India for assistance recently against the Taliban (air support); it did not comply despite the request of the "legitimate" government of Afghanistan. India is not taking away your money as we did, but it is killing your border guards, citizens and occupying your territory forcefully.
We do not (and should not) have any grievance against our Bengali brothers, and we did not do right by you. However, we would not forget how a foreign power intervened in a dispute between brothers. Nationalists like me long for the day when we could inflict such pain on India that the humiliation of 1971 would be avenged.
 
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bluesky

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Mujib fought and won the 71 elections on the 6 point agenda, ending Pakistan as a federation.
No, it may not have been the end of Pakistan as a federation. I ask you, with only a simple majority in the Parliament was the Awami League able to change the Constitution or the Legal Framework of Pakistan? It won 160 seats which was a simple majority in a house of 300 seats.

So, the subsequent wrong actions caused the rift. Should Mujib have been handed over the position of Prime Minister through the voting in the NA, he would certainly have failed to deliver the promises he made to the people in the east. Mujib's popularity would have plummeted within six months.

In reality, Yahya-Bhutto gong played at the hands of Mujib. Note that he wanted a separation unless power is not handed over, but did not declare it openly. He raised the stakes one after another and Yahya fell into his trap.

Anyway, a peaceful separation would have been better for the two wings as per Lahore Resolution. We could still remain in touch with each other and friendly.
 

American Pakistani

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Much of what you said is true, and Pakistanis, including this one, feel ashamed of how we treated our brothers in the East (particularly in terms of lack of economic justice) till the eve of the 1971 elections, which provided fertile grounds for resentment to grow in. Hindus are still persecuted in present-day Bangladesh (this was not unique to West Pakistani behavior). Mujib fought and won the 71 elections on the 6 point agenda, ending Pakistan as a federation. He was compromised way before (in the 60s) by the Indian intelligence. West Pakistani leaders like Bhutto (a power-hungry opportunist) and Yahya (an incompetent coward and a moron of the highest order) ensured that the unity of Pakistan was not preserved even in a diluted form. It is also true that the Muslims of Bengal spearheaded the freedom struggle, but a minority did not accommodate the majority for much of our shared history. Poor Pakistan has been hosting over 3 million Afghans, but we never invaded that country to mitigate the effect of civil strife there on ourselves. India became the aggressor out of its own volition. Manekshaw was asked by Indira to prepare for war 9 months in advance of the December 1971 open hostilities. Kabul regime pleaded with India for assistance recently against the Taliban (air support); it did not comply despite the request of the "legitimate" government of Afghanistan. India is not taking away your money as we did, but it is killing your border guards, citizens and occupying your territory forcefully.
We do not (and should not) have any grievance against our Bengali brothers, and we did not do right by you. However, we would not forget how a foreign power intervened in a dispute between brothers. Nationalists like me long for the day when we could inflict such pain on India that the humiliation of 1971 would be avenged.

Partially I agree with you but stop falling into the fetched lies by Bangladeshi and Indian about looting Bangladeshi wealth and genocide nonsense.

If anyone had benefited before 71,it was Bangladesh as it was not absorbed by India.
@bluesky

Besides, all politicians were involved in break up. Including bhutto, mujib, and others who failed to their part to stop these 2.

I have no hard feelings towards Bangladeshis but the pakistan phobic whose entire history is upside down need to stop posting their nonsense propaganda of looting and genocide crap.
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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Even a broken clock shows the time right twice a day....

Here, Hasina in fact is stating the truth!!! It's not the Bangal rebels like the Muktis could achieve the break-up of Pak! it was the USSR/India/West/Israil etc. vs Pak with the tacit approval of the USA.......
 

bluesky

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If anyone had benefited before 71,it was Bangladesh as it was not absorbed by India.
@bluesky
How can India absorb Bangladesh? Do you think Hindu people are that thick-headed? It was even ready to immediately vacate by accepting the UN Resolution in December 1971 and who undid it?

It was your ZA Bhutto who tore the UN Resolution on the spot, said some stupid things, and went out the door. This guy was ready to break Pakistan into ten on the condition that he would be the PM of any one of them.

If you think I lie, better you watch the UN video from some sources.
 
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Pak Nationalist

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Partially I agree with you but stop falling into the fetched lies by Bangladeshi and Indian about looting Bangladeshi wealth and genocide nonsense.

If anyone had benefited before 71,it was Bangladesh as it was not absorbed by India.
@bluesky

Besides, all politicians were involved in break up. Including bhutto, mujib, and others who failed to their part to stop these 2.

I have no hard feelings towards Bangladeshis but the pakistan phobic whose entire history is upside down need to stop posting their nonsense propaganda of looting and genocide crap.
Not endorsing the hyperbole surrounding genocide. Economic and political justice was not ensured, and that must be recognized and lessons learned from our history. Lack of socioeconomic and political justice turned the majority in East Pakistan against the idea of Pakistan. We blame India for jumping into a dispute between brothers to ameliorate the threat perception for itself after it had to eat a humble pie in 1965 (on a tangent, the performance of the East Bengal Regiment in 65 was exemplary, it was involved in defense of Lahore). Not for our own mistakes. Denying our own mistakes is even more problematic and should be avoided at all costs.
 
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Pak Nationalist

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No, it may not have been the end of Pakistan as a federation. I ask you, with only a simple majority in the Parliament was the Awami League able to change the Constitution or the Legal Framework of Pakistan? It won 160 seats which was a simple majority in a house of 300 seats.

So, the subsequent wrong actions caused the rift. Should Mujib have been handed over the position of Prime Minister through the voting in the NA, he would certainly have failed to deliver the promises he made to the people in the east. Mujib's popularity would have plummeted within six months.

In reality, Yahya-Bhutto gong played at the hands of Mujib. Note that he wanted a separation unless power is not handed over, but did not declare it openly. He raised the stakes one after another and Yahya fell into his trap.

Anyway, a peaceful separation would have been better for the two wings as per Lahore Resolution. We could still remain in touch with each other and friendly.
It was a blunder and an injustice of not transferring power to him. Lahore resolution called for 2 separate Muslim states in the subcontinent. Ideally, there should have been two states from the beginning, but once there was a single one, the onus on everyone was to ensure its continued survival. We in West Pakistan were not up to the task. There has been a lot of hyperbole vis-a-vis events of 71 on the BD side, but the West Pakistani elite had taken steps to ensure the total alienation of East Pakistanis even before that. I, for one, would not be a party to denying our historical wrongs. What has passed has passed. BD is an emerging Asian economy today. It should move on from the dark chapter of our history. With Haseena at the helm, it is not possible. Maybe sometime in the future, when alternative leadership emerges in BD, the relation between our two states could see improvement as our forefathers would have envisaged in the Lahore declaration.

With an aggressive Hindu supremacist ideology in India that sees Muslims as cancerous tumors on the body of the subcontinent worthy of excising, two Muslim states in the subcontinent must have better ties to ensure that the destructive tendencies of the Indian state are kept at bay.

How can India absorb Bangladesh? Do you think Hindu people are that thick-headed? It was even ready to immediately vacate by accepting the UN Resolution and who undid it?

It was your ZA Bhutto who tore the UN Resolution on the spot, said some stupid things, and went out the door. This guy was ready to break Pakistan into ten on the condition that he would be the PM of any one of them.

If you think I lie, better you watch the UN video from some sources.
I think he meant that if two states were conceived, as envisaged in the Lahore resolution, rather than a single one. I do agree with what you are saying about Bhutto again. There are voices now in Pakistan as well who speak about this particular action of Bhutto and try to connect it with a larger personality sketch of this character.
 
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bluesky

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Even a broken clock shows the time right twice a day....

Here, Hasina in fact is stating the truth!!! It's not the Bangal rebels like the Muktis could achieve the break-up of Pak! it was the USSR/India/West/Israil etc. vs Pak with the tacit approval of the USA.......
You live in a fantasy world created by yourself. Are you somehow related by blood to all those thick-headed Punjabi and Pathan generals?

Do not please see things that did not exist in 1971.
 

American Pakistani

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How can India absorb Bangladesh? Do you think Hindu people are that thick-headed? It was even ready to immediately vacate by accepting the UN Resolution and who undid it?

It was your ZA Bhutto who tore the UN Resolution on the spot, said some stupid things, and went out the door. This guy was ready to break Pakistan into ten on the condition that he would be the PM of any one of them.

If you think I lie, better you watch the UN video from some sources.
Read again what I wrote. India in 71 was not interested in absorbing Bangladesh in fact it wanted a semi independent Bangladesh to prove that 2 nation theory was not good and to keep it under its influence forever. I was talking more about 47 when originally Bangladesh was suppose to become independent along with Pakistan and India. But Bangladeshi leaders were smart and knew India will absorb it in the blink of an eye so they choose to merge with pakistan.
 

American Pakistani

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Not endorsing the hyperbole surrounding genocide. Economic and political justice was not ensured, and that must be recognized and lessons learned from our history. Lack of socioeconomic and political justice turned the majority in East Pakistan against the idea of Pakistan. We blame India for jumping into a dispute between brothers to ameliorate the threat perception for itself after it had to eat a humble pie in 1965 (on a tangent, the performance of the East Bengal Regiment in 65 was exemplary, it was involved in defense of Lahore). Not for our own mistakes. Denying our own mistakes is even more problematic and should be avoided at all costs.
That economic looting and political injustice is utter nonsense as well. To be bluntly truth, no offense, but it's naive Pakistanis like you who awami nationalist Bangladeshis and Indians take advantage of. Entire pakistan after 47 was economically impoverished, there were more industries from pre partition times in western pakistan compared to Eastern that's one of the reasons why massive amount of Bangladeshis came into western pakistan. If Bangladesh had jute crop, West pakistan Sindh and Punjab had rice and cotton, kpk had stones and Balochistan had gas.

As for political injustice, there were several Bangladeshis who ruled at top spots before 71. You just need to search.

Surely there is no denying about corrupt politicians from Pakistan as well, but ignoring Bangladeshi corrupt power hungry politicians is just shying away from reality. All of the politicians be it from west or east wing were responsible.

Having said all that, Bangladesh & Bangladeshis need to move on. Stop living in the past. We are happy that you are independent but don't use us for your national political motives and strength. Stop scapegoating us for your motives. Because that's the bone of content between our countries today. Pakistan have long accepted you as sovereign country which you should be back in 47 as per 40 resolution.
 

Pak Nationalist

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That economic looting and political injustice is utter nonsense as well. To be bluntly truth, no offense, but it's naive Pakistanis like you who awami nationalist Bangladeshis and Indians take advantage of. Entire pakistan after 47 was economically impoverished, there were more industries from pre partition times in western pakistan compared to Eastern that's one of the reasons why massive amount of Bangladeshis came into western pakistan. If Bangladesh had jute crop, West pakistan Sindh and Punjab had rice and cotton, kpk had stones and Balochistan had gas.

As for political injustice, there were several Bangladeshis who ruled at top spots before 71. You just need to search.

Surely there is no denying about corrupt politicians from Pakistan as well, but ignoring Bangladeshi corrupt power hungry politicians is just shying away from reality. All of the politicians be it from west or east wing were responsible.

Having said all that, Bangladesh & Bangladeshis need to move on. Stop living in the past. We are happy that you are independent but don't use us for your national political motives and strength. Stop scapegoating us for your motives. Because that's the bone of content between our countries today. Pakistan have long accepted you as sovereign country which you should be back in 47 as per 40 resolution.

Why were the jute mills not set up at the source rather than bringing the raw material to West Pakistan? You allude to leaders like Suharwardy. What did we do with them? How were conspiracies hatched against their governments? To be blunt (I won't attack your person), it was the urge in our military elite to rule rather than serve that abused the intelligence of the people of Pakistan. East Pakistanis wanted to have nothing to do with it. Look at the type of crowds Fatima Jinnah was pulling merely years before the 1971 tragedy. Military rule is not as readily acceptable for everyone as it is to the majority in Pakistan historically.
 

Sainthood 101

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Having said all that, Bangladesh & Bangladeshis need to move on. Stop living in the past. We are happy that you are independent but don't use us for your national political motives and strength. Stop scapegoating us for your motives. Because that's the bone of content between our countries today. Pakistan have long accepted you as sovereign country which you should be back in 47 as per 40 resolution.
This I agree with
 

American Pakistani

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Why were the jute mills not set up at the source rather than bringing the raw material to West Pakistan? You allude to leaders like Suharwardy. What did we do with them? How were conspiracies hatched against their governments? To be blunt (I won't attack your person), it was the urge in our military elite to rule rather than serve that abused the intelligence of the people of Pakistan. East Pakistanis wanted to have nothing to do with it. Look at the type of crowds Fatima Jinnah was pulling merely years before the 1971 tragedy. Military rule is not as readily acceptable for everyone as it is to the majority in Pakistan historically.
Because most factories were in British era western part. It was not like pakistan bringing jute and establishing new factories. It was a impoverished country trying to stand on its feet.

Whatever pakistan did with politician is nothing new at all. In recent time Benazir, nawaz and other examples are in front of us. Politics is a very dirty game in Pakistan.

As for military urge to rule than to serve, that's another lie. Military urge is to protect the country from external as well as internal enemy. Most politicians being enemies within.
 

Pak Nationalist

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Because most factories were in British era western part. It was not like pakistan bringing jute and establishing new factories. It was a impoverished country trying to stand on its feet.

Whatever pakistan did with politician is nothing new at all. In recent time Benazir, nawaz and other examples are in front of us. Politics is a very dirty game in Pakistan.

As for military urge to rule than to serve, that's another lie. Military urge is to protect the country from external as well as internal enemy. Most politicians being enemies within.

Yes, and in the 1960s, the military elite was busy protecting the country from another external/internal enemy named Fatima Jinnah. I would not continue this exchange any further, considering there is no way something meaningful could come out of it.
 

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