• Monday, February 24, 2020

Yet another nation destroyed by Western powers in the ME

Discussion in 'Middle East & Africa' started by maximuswarrior, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. maximuswarrior

    maximuswarrior BANNED

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    What Do World Powers Really Want in Libya?

    After failure in Moscow, peace talks now move to Berlin. Here’s a look at who’s coming and why.

    Libya has been on fire since the 2011 ouster of Muammar Qaddafi, split between rival leaders fighting for control while world powers try to play kingmaker.

    Russia, Turkey, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Italy, and France have all been drawn in to the confrontation between the United Nations-backed government in Tripoli of Prime Minister Fayez al-Sarraj and eastern-based military commander Khalifa Haftar, whose forces have been camped on the southern outskirts of the capital since April.

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    Khalifa Haftar sits during talks in Athens on Jan 17. Photographer: Aris Messinis/AFP via Getty Images

    After brokering a truce, Russia and Turkey tried unsuccessfully on Monday to seal a peace deal in Moscow. Sarraj signed, but Haftar rebuffed. The commander then raised the stakes higher by halving Libya’s oil output with a port blockade on the eve of an international conference in Berlin that aims to end nine months of fighting.

    Failure risks seeing the holder of Africa’s largest oil reserves spiral into a major conflagration and Haftar’s latest move could change the calculus of the various foreign players. Sarraj said in an interview on Saturday it showed his rival isn’t ready for peace.

    Here’s a look at who’s coming to Berlin and why.

    Turkey
    Ankara’s interest in Libya goes back to the Ottoman Empire. Turkish officers including Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, founder of modern Turkey, organized Libyan resistance against invading Italian armies a century ago.

    Today, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan sees a maritime border deal with the UN-backed government in Tripoli to be key to Turkish aspirations for more clout in the resource-rich waters of the Mediterranean, something that worries fellow NATO member Greece. Turkish contractors also have billions of dollars worth of receivables from past projects in Libya, where they were among the most active businessmen until Qaddafi’s ouster.

    Russia
    Along with Erdogan, President Vladimir Putin pushed Libya’s feuding rivals to attend the Moscow peace talks. Russia and Turkey back rival sides in Libya—just as they have in Syria—and Putin may use his leverage to secure concessions from Erdogan in both theaters of conflict. Brokering a settlement could also gain some useful kudos with Germany and the EU. But a bigger prize would be Russia securing access to Libyan oil deals.

    740x-1.jpeg

    Germany
    Since the country wasn’t actively involved in Qaddafi’s overthrow, it can now present itself as a neutral mediator in the conflict. Chancellor Angela Merkel’s main interest is to reestablish a stable government that’s able to stop the flow of migrants from central Africa. Germany also sees Libya, which turned into a hotbed for militant Islamist groups in the post-Qaddafi chaos, as an important actor in the fight against the jihadists.

    Italy
    Libya was an Italian colony from the early 20th century until the aftermath of World War II and the legacy of that era endures. Energy giant Eni SpA is the biggest player in the Libyan oil industry, while former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi was tight with Qaddafi and highly skeptical about his removal.

    Among Italian officials there’s a strong sense of “we told you so” about the mess that followed the NATO air campaign led by France and the U.K. In private, they’re highly critical of French intervention in the country. Italy is also on the front line of the refugee crisis as migrants cross the Mediterranean.

    France
    France was the driving force in the NATO-led air campaign that ousted Qaddafi and has been playing both sides in the current conflict. Since at least 2015, the year after the country split between rival administrations, Paris has backed the UN-mediated peace process though also helped Haftar.

    One reason is that the general is seen as someone who can stem the supply of arms and money to jihadist groups in the Sahel, where French troops are hunting down their leaders. President Emmanuel Macron has also burnished Haftar’s image politically, inviting the general and Sarraj to Paris in 2017 to try and broker a power-sharing deal.

    Egypt
    The government in Cairo also sees Haftar as the only real bulwark against Islamist extremism. There’s concern Libya’s eastern border could become a safe haven for militants who would then send fighters and weapons into Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula. The kidnapping and beheading of 21 Egyptian Copts by a Libya cell linked to Islamic State heightened concerns. Haftar has admitted to close cooperation with Cairo, especially on intelligence sharing and military assistance.

    U.A.E.
    Like Egypt, the U.A.E. sees Haftar as a strongman able to crush the threat posed by Islamist militants. The Gulf state has provided the Libyan general with military and logistical support, and conducts drone strikes on his behalf.

    Britain
    The U.K. has largely withdrawn from an active role in the Middle East, especially anything that smacks of regime change, since former Prime Minister Tony Blair’s decision to join U.S. President George W. Bush in toppling Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

    At one point, the U.K. seemed to be vying with France over who would lead the intervention, but Prime Minister David Cameron was criticized by lawmakers for contributing to the creation of a failed state. When it came to Syria two years later, Cameron lost a vote in Parliament on backing strikes. Since 2016, the country has been consumed by its tortuous quest to leave the EU.

    U.S.
    Ever since the killing of U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens in Benghazi in 2012, Washington has limited its role to occasional air strikes targeting members of Islamic State. It was sending mixed messages to Libya’s rival administrations until it noticed what Putin was doing. Officials told Bloomberg that Russia sent hundreds of mercenaries in September to support Haftar (Putin denies this). Weeks later, a U.S drone was downed and the Americans began pushing Haftar for a cease-fire and hoping for a peace deal that would squeeze out Russia.

    China
    Beijing has called for a return to talks and an end to violence in Libya, in part to help its state-owned companies make deals and secure resources. While China has less at stake politically, it will want to ensure its interests are looked after and is sending a top diplomat to Berlin.

    In May 2018, for example, PetroChina agreed to buy Libyan crude. There might also be opportunities arising from the reconstruction of the country and to link up with other Chinese projects in the Mediterranean as part of the Belt and Road infrastructure initiative.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-19/what-do-world-powers-really-want-in-libya
     
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  2. maximuswarrior

    maximuswarrior BANNED

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    France has singlehandedly destroyed Libya due to oil greed.

    This is now another Syria in the making where different nations are going to be vying for power.
     
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  3. Philosopher.

    Philosopher. FULL MEMBER

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    So UK and France, what happened to "democracy" in Libya?

     
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  4. islamrules2020

    islamrules2020 FULL MEMBER

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    I don't blame anyone but the Libyans themselves, they only answer to dictatorship, they can't unite under a free democratic country. we (Morocco) tried to help them unite peacefully but they wouldn't .
    the weird thing, is that zionist wannabe superpower arab state UAE, this country has nothing to do but inflame civil wars in the Arab world, as if they were doing it on the behalf of the Zionist state itself and they are I believe. can someone deal with them !!
     
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  5. jaibi

    jaibi SENIOR MODERATOR

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    I think this is what happens when you try to intervene in an ongoing revolution. The powers to be reacted hastily in order to stabilise the global impact of a transition in Libya and hence took away the autonomy of the people there.
     
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  6. Microsoft

    Microsoft FULL MEMBER

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    Interesting Italy isn't following in the steps of the other goys. Italy has been showing some backbone speaking with China about BRI too.
     
  7. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    What is happening in

    a) Libya
    b) Syria
    c) Iraq

    Is the old continuation of war and focus is now the elimination of Muslim population, these mini-wars


    South Africa and North America were also depopulated with these kind of Civil wars or Open wars

    The impact of these wars is visible in 200-300 year time frames

    That is why USA has been active to deny Iran , education , technology and commerce
    to keep it backward while other nations around are reduced to rubble

    It is a 200-300 year war


    During the intial phases , the local demographics is kept backward for a period of 50 years to 140 years. The local groups are decentralized and given weapons to destroy their own country's infrastructure

    a) Destruction of Syrian Infrastructure, Homes and Life
    b) Destruction of Iraq infrastructure, homes and lives
    c) Destruction of Libiyan Infrastructure , home and lives

    Are all part of the grand scheme of things

    North America was heavily populated with Native Population but now they are only 1% of the population living in caves, forest or farmlands in the middle of nowhere... no facilities slowly vanishing

    South America was heavily populated with Native Population, but 200-300 year long spanish conquest , left the population and local culture destroyed


    Suicide is high in young children of Native population , in countries which claim to be Developed

    The world silence on Kashmir and Muslims in India being killed by Indians is a prime example how the media looks the otherways in reporting Muslims being killed and beaten in wars


    If we carefully review the destruction of Natives in North America and South America , we see various Tribal factions, inner fighting and confusion and the majority of time the beneficiaries were invading colonizers
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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  8. aziqbal

    aziqbal PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    when Arabs decided to Allie with non-muslims over muslims in 1917 thats when their punishment also began

    and they also helped the downfall of the caliphate so nothing goes unpunished

    so now they reap what they sow

    no one should help them

    as for Turkey we should all support Turkey because they tried very hard to fight on their own after WWI but their enemy were many and friends very few
     
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  9. Super Falcon

    Super Falcon ELITE MEMBER

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    Turkey should send its military to support legitimate govt take hafter forces head on crush them and take these basterds to hell if devil dont care about ethics why should good people do take hafter terrorist from head
     
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  10. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    When you review the History of past Occupation , it always starts with

    "We are going after someone, and so we need to go to a war inside your country"

    Then the claim changes to

    "We feel , the place is now safer if we stay in and look after security"

    Then the claim changes to

    "Well the traders have requested , we providing them security so we must stay "


    Then the claim changes to
    "We have decided to own , 25% of the land , for the general losses we suffered due to war against someone from your country "

    Then the claim changes to
    "We have partnered with one of the Main rulers of your land , and he and us are on a partnership , to destroy the other 80% people who want to lay claim on the Kingdom. Our partner is a honest , civilized man"

    As part of our pact we will provide our older generation weapons to King's army

    Then the claim changes to

    "We have terminated the partnership with the local ruler, he was demanding too much and was corrupt , so we have claimed all 100% of the country and it's resources are ours"

    Then the claim changes to
    "Anyone local is advised to leave their homes and farms behind , and move to the deserted area outside the city , the main land will be populated by our colonist outpost "

    Then the claim changes to
    "Anyone local is advised to move further , beyond the desert as our outpost area needs to expand "



    However 400 years later in mainstream media they just claim

    "Oh the locals, well they all died due to mysterious virus"



    Iraq - Syria - Libya are going thru the first stage of that 300 year genocide
    • First 30 years

    Palestine
    • Has already seen 70 years


    These various transitions which I listed , happen over a period of 200-500 years
    unless it was some World War level war then of course it happens in 10-20 year period
     
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  11. That Guy

    That Guy PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    I think it has less to do with stabilizing Libya, and more to do with

    A) the involved powers realizing that they can gain a permanent foothold in the country.

    B) them realizing that they all have competing interests in the country.

    The French don't actually care what happens to Libya, what they care about is their operations in places like Mali, aren't affected by what's happening in Libya (militants going back and forth across unmarked open borders). Haftar, with his military strength, and backing from Libya's strongest neighbor, Egypt, is (in France's eyes) the best option to make this happen. Personally, I think France is making a huge mistake, and France will in the future be looked at with disgusted at what they're currently doing.

    Turkey is more interested in expanding their geopolitical foot print in Africa, and Libya is the perfect place to do so. Haftar being pro-Egypt and pro-Saudi, he's virulently anti-Turkey. Also, if the Turks manage to pull of a victory, they could be looking at gaining access to cheap oil.

    I just realized what time it was. I was gonna write my thoughts on the other countries involved, but I got to go to work.
     
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  12. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    If you have a chance to get 25% of oil wealth for free why would you not be involved

    The developed world need

    • Blood Diamonds for wedding rings from Africa, every girls dream is a diamond
    • Need free oil so, people have greater savings in Banks
    • Need that Star bucks coffee made from the sweat of slaves in Africa

    [​IMG]



    For someone to be rich live a full life, another human have to live a life of poverty and life on 1 penny a day



    I know I know


    Sometimes ... for greater good

    "The warlords must be kept happy "
     
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  13. jaibi

    jaibi SENIOR MODERATOR

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    That's precisely the problem, brother, they have placed their benefits above that of the people and made this fiasco. I know, it's quite blatant but it still needs to be pointed out. Over and over again.
     
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  14. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    Turkey helping Libya, in my opinion, is the best for Libya's greater good
    Turkey is an honest broker :coffee:
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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  15. Dubious

    Dubious MODERATOR

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    I beg to differ!

    By 1900s the Khalifah system was more a Monarchy with palaces and women being the norm... then a proper Caliphate - true to its title (which literally meant democratically elected- or elected based on the insights of a selected / trustworthy few)

    Sadly under the Khafiah name there was a Monarchy in practice and to shame someone for not following the disguised system is not wise!
     
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