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Y-20 heavy transport aircraft News & Discussions

Figaro

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As I understand it the WS-20 is still in testing.

Seems like a long time as the first engine was put on a Russian plane all the way back in 2014.
It's in the final phases of testing ... production variants should come out next year. There was a report from a couple of years ago that the WS-20 technical specifications, specifically the reliability, was significantly heightened during the development cycle (being their first high bypass turbofan). Otherwise, it would have come out a lot sooner.
@Deino I don't think the Y-20 is available for export yet, but, watch this space because the PAF is on the look for a successor to the IL-78. Basically, a heavy-lifter with more efficient engines, and AAR capability.
I'm almost certain we will see a Y-20 flying PAF colors within the next five years.
 

UKBengali

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It's in the final phases of testing ... production variants should come out next year. There was a report from a couple of years ago that the WS-20 technical specifications, specifically the reliability, was significantly heightened during the development cycle (being their first high bypass turbofan). Otherwise, it would have come out a lot sooner.

I await the WS-20 coming into service next year, as otherwise the omens for the CJ-1000A coming into service this decade for the C-919 airliner is not good.
 

Figaro

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I await the WS-20 coming into service next year, as otherwise the omens for the CJ-1000A coming into service this decade for the C-919 airliner is not good.
The Chinese don't have as much experience in high bypass engines ... hence the delay. Also, since the CJ-1000A is a turbofan for a passenger jetliner, its reliability requirements/tolerance are much higher than that of the equivalent military grade turbofan. Besides, the WS-20 and CJ-1000A don't share the same basis design to my knowledge; the former is based off the WS-10 while the latter is a clean sheet design.
 

UKBengali

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The Chinese don't have as much experience in high bypass engines ... hence the delay. Also, since the CJ-1000A is a turbofan for a passenger jetliner, its reliability requirements/tolerance are much higher than that of the equivalent military grade turbofan. Besides, the WS-20 and CJ-1000A don't share the same basis design to my knowledge; the former is based off the WS-10 while the latter is a clean sheet design.

Yes, I know all of that.

The CJ-1000A was initially supposed to be close to the WS-20 in technology but this was rightly rejected as being outdated and so a more ambitious project targeting Leap-1C levels of tech was launched instead.

My point is that if the Chinese cannot get the WS-20 into service by next year, then it will be difficult for them to get the far more technologically advanced CJ-1000A into service before the end of this decade as well.

Anyway let us wait and see as the Chinese are making steady progress in jet engine tech as we saw with the WS-10 series last decade and so they can only make more breakthroughs this decade as well.

It would be fantastic to see WS-15(likely), WS-20(likely), WS-19(likely) and CJ-1000A(maybe) all put into service this decade.
 

Beast

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Yes, I know all of that.

The CJ-1000A was initially supposed to be close to the WS-20 in technology but this was rightly rejected as being outdated and so a more ambitious project targeting Leap-1C levels of tech was launched instead.

My point is that if the Chinese cannot get the WS-20 into service by next year, then it will be difficult for them to get the far more technologically advanced CJ-1000A into service before the end of this decade as well.

Anyway let us wait and see as the Chinese are making steady progress in jet engine tech as we saw with the WS-10 series last decade and so they can only make more breakthroughs this decade as well.

It would be fantastic to see WS-15(likely), WS-20(likely), WS-19(likely) and CJ-1000A(maybe) all put into service this decade.
There is no hurry to get WS-20 into service. Not until C919 is put into service.
 

UKBengali

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There is no hurry to get WS-20 into service. Not until C919 is put into service.

I do not agree as both WS-20 for Y-20 and CJ-1000A for C919 are important for China.

China is currently relying on 1960s tech Russian engines to power it's Y-20 transport and this is really inefficient and lacks thrust. The WS-20 would take the engine technology up to roughly 1980/90s Western level and would improve both efficiency and thrust which would make the Y-20 a much better transport and also AEW etc.


Anyway there is not much use speculating too much and we just need to wait to see if the WS-20 is flying on production Y-20s next year.


PS - CJ-1000A for C919 airliner is now targeted to be put into service for the latter half of this decade and has yet to be tested on a flying plane, and so is many many years behind, maybe even a decade, the WS-20 that has been flying since 2014 on a Russian plane.
 
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Beast

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I do not agree as both WS-20 for Y-20 and CJ-1000A for C919 are important for China.

China is currently relying on 1960s tech Russian engines to power it's Y-20 transport and this is really inefficient and lacks thrust. The WS-20 would take the engine technology up to roughly 1980/90s Western level and would improve both efficiency and thrust which would make the Y-20 a much better transport and also AEW etc.


Anyway there is not much use speculating too much and we just need to wait to see if the WS-20 is flying on production Y-20s next year.


PS - CJ-1000A for C919 airliner is now targeted to be put into service for the latter half of this decade and has yet to be tested on a flying plane, and so is many many years behind, maybe even a decade, the WS-20 that has been flying since 2014 on a Russian plane.
I strongly disagree with your conclusion.
DK-30KP2 and WS-18 are not 60s tech. Check out their history.


They are Soviet most advance turbofan engine when Introduced in 70s and a major upgrade in the 80s. The final version of DK-30KP2 with further refined is product of post Soviet era products in the 90s.

Even the CMF-56 which large number of passenger plane flying with are 70s era engine traces back to FW100 engine.WS-20 core derived from this.

The high bypass is even more Insignificant when used on a large transport plane like Y-20 which has huge payload and capacity to install extra internal fuel tank to make up for the low bypass engine fuel consumption. In terms of thrust D-30KP2 and WS-18 are not much far behind from CMF-56.
 

UKBengali

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I strongly disagree with your conclusion.
DK-30KP2 and WS-18 are not 60s tech. Check out their history.


They are Soviet most advance turbofan engine when Introduced in 70s and a major upgrade in the 80s. The final version of DK-30KP2 with further refined is product of post Soviet era products in the 90s.

Even the CMF-56 which large number of passenger plane flying with are 70s era engine traces back to FW100 engine.WS-20 core derived from this.

The high bypass is even more Insignificant when used on a large transport plane like Y-20 which has huge payload and capacity to install extra internal fuel tank to make up for the low bypass engine fuel consumption. In terms of thrust D-30KP2 and WS-18 are not much far behind from CMF-56.

I am comparing to Western tech levels - Russia was always 10-20 years behind the USA in jet-engine tech during the cold-war.

WS-20 is a whole 20 years more modern than the DK-30KP2 that are installed in Y-20.
 

Beast

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I am comparing to Western tech levels - Russia was always 10-20 years behind the USA in jet-engine tech during the cold-war.

WS-20 is a whole 20 years more modern than the DK-30KP2 that are installed in Y-20.
CMF-56 core is more in tune for civilian plane than military. It is designed with high bypass in mind to reduce fuel consumption in order to fit Into competitive margin driven civilian airliner market.

In military terms , that few additional fuel consumption wouldn't cause much harm compare to strategic need of military point of view.
 

Deino

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CMF-56 core is more in tune for civilian plane than military. It is designed with high bypass in mind to reduce fuel consumption in order to fit Into competitive margin driven civilian airliner market.

In military terms , that few additional fuel consumption wouldn't cause much harm compare to strategic need of military point of view.

The funny part on this it now almost made a full circle: The WS-10 is based on the CGM-56's core and as such a high-bypass civil engine was converted/developed into a low-bypass military engine ... the WS-20 now is a high-bypass engine developed on the WS-10's core and as such it would be interesting, how much similar the WS-20 is now in comparison to its original ancestor?!
 

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