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World Defence Industry Ranking

Baybars Han

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I saw this ranking from a post in the Turkish Defence section. I wanted to ask peoples thoughts on it. It shows the levels/rankings of countries defence industries.. I dont agree with some of them however mostly it looks correct and I would like to see the thoughts of others. No trolls please.

 

AUz

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lol, indian defence industy is no way near Turkey's or Sweden's.

Pakistan alone exports more in defence than india lol
 

Baybars Han

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lol, indian defence industy is no way near Turkey's or Sweden's.

Pakistan alone exports more in defence than india lol
There is a few things India is quite advanced although they import most stuff. Such as space systems and stuff. Remember this is overall defence industry. Also Pakistan should be somewhere in there and a fee other countries that are missed.
 

Force Awakens

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1. jf 17 getting more hype does not mean pakistan exports more in defence than india
defence exports means actually selling all kinds of military hardware from ships and patrol boats to guns and bullets to airplanes and helicopters

2. terrorists are not included in "defence exports"
Lolml.You just rekt him.
:rofl:
 

Khan_patriot

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1. jf 17 getting more hype in PDF does not mean pakistan exports more in defence than india
defence exports means actually selling all kinds of military hardware from ships and patrol boats to guns and bullets to airplanes and helicopters

2. terrorists are not included in "defence exports"
What planes do you export exactly the failed Tejas???
And yes terrorists and their sponsoring are not included in defence exports because if they were you would probably be somewhere in top
 

Shinigami

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What planes do you export exactly the failed Tejas???
And yes terrorists and their sponsoring are not included in defence exports because if they were you would probably be somewhere in top
the snide remark aside, keep in mind that calling tejas "failed" because the IAF fails to accept it unless its comparable to western fighters, unlike some others who induct anything that flies because they have no other choice, is a very narrow way of looking at things.

besides, read what i wrote:
defence exports means actually selling all kinds of military hardware from ships and patrol boats to guns and bullets to airplanes and helicopters
 

Nike

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This is defense industry ranks, and India actually doing a lot of better than Pakistan

Indian Defense Industry is actually had capability to license producing some high end military stuff like Flanker, Jaguar and so on at a higher production rates than even Japan. They had a credible missile and rocket production capabilities. Not to mention their Naval Industry capability is capable to producing a destroyer, submarines, frigates and other systems and subsystems. So it's no wonder they got better than Japan or South Korean who lacks in missile regime technology because of some restrict from US and their own law.
 

19887

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If some country want to reach high level like Israel,you should surround yourselfs with Arabs - it's make you stronger.
 

gslv mk3

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lol, indian defence industy is no way near Turkey's or Sweden's.
Stop blabbering non sense

failed Tejas???
If the 'failed tejas' is in serial production,I say you should check your definition of failure.

The value of India's defence production stood at 54,997.99 crores last FY.That's around $ 9 billion ( 59% of total procurement expenditure )
 

Baybars Han

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Once we make a long range missile, indigenous air defence and destroyer, we will automatically jump to India level or above.

What is India annual defence export? I'm surprised India is above Japan here, or even south Korea.
 

Nike

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Once we make a long range missile, indigenous air defence and destroyer, we will automatically jump to India level or above.

What is India annual defence export? I'm surprised India is above Japan here, or even south Korea.
defense industrial capability is not same with defense exports performance

You can see from Japanese cases. They had nil export in defense items and equipment because their law dictate so until recently. But no one dare to doubt their defense industrial capability and manufacturing prowess, especially in Naval systems.


From what i see, the Turkish defense strength is lies in their ground system and recently had move towards Air and Naval industry with significant progress.
 

Baybars Han

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@madokafc
I would also like to give more details about Turkish industries:)

Turkish helicopter is italian licensed with American/British engine. The radars, SOM Cruise missiles have more than 60+% French,Swiss,German,American components.

1. The Hisar-I / O is a product of Diehl / BGT Germany produced under license by Aselsan, being that only 30% is Turkish.
2. KALKAN the radar Aselsan is only one AN-MPQ-64 Raytheon,

3. FCR radar Ku band Aselsan is a Swiss license of Oerlikon, which also now belongs to the Rheinmetall Group.
4. The SMART-S radar MK II is authorized by Aselsan "Hollandse Signaal" or Thales Nerderlands
5. Radar Alselan Hsar MSR X-Band is a license Rheinmetall / Oerlikon
- The missile is an SL Diehl Defence IRIS-T licensed product

6. Oerlikon also provided IIR seeker for Som cruise missile.Most of the components used in SOM are sourced from small component vendors located in EU,USA. While others are bought by Rocketstan and Aselsan with costly TOT from french,Italian,German companies.

7. Same case with all Turkey naval missile boats/frigates. The new MILGEM project took shape with help of German. You guys can dig into the % break up of indigenous components

Turkey doesnt produce equipment at asian cost. Their systems are atleast 50% costlier than China which implies that Turkey private companies are paying huge royalty for using many western sub-systems



Pakistan,Iran,N-Korea have been working with solid rocket engine for 2decades but they cant produce dual pulse rocket engine:(Anyone will be surprised if Turks all of sudden come out with such massive breakthrough:)

IF Pakistan Joined MTCR then it can make all of these projects at home:) Everything is freely available in western market if you dont cross the limit of 300 KM!

R&D requires 3-4 decades of public sector effort. Turkish private sector companies mainly source LCU and sensors from abroad with some kind of long term licensing agreement.

Turkey never developed a simple 5-10 Km range track while scan radar before coming out with Doppler, Long range, 3 D radar, SAR, AESA radar, S/X band, Ku band seeker, IIR seeker,it claims to have made with in a decade:)


Also remember that home grown product built from scratch will look less appealing.
Loool you just made me laugh there.
 
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@madokafc
I would also like to give more details about Turkish industries:)

Turkish helicopter is italian licensed with American/British engine. The radars, SOM Cruise missiles have more than 60+% French,Swiss,German,American components.

1. The Hisar-I / O is a product of Diehl / BGT Germany produced under license by Aselsan, being that only 30% is Turkish.
2. KALKAN the radar Aselsan is only one AN-MPQ-64 Raytheon,

3. FCR radar Ku band Aselsan is a Swiss license of Oerlikon, which also now belongs to the Rheinmetall Group.
4. The SMART-S radar MK II is authorized by Aselsan "Hollandse Signaal" or Thales Nerderlands
5. Radar Alselan Hsar MSR X-Band is a license Rheinmetall / Oerlikon
- The missile is an SL Diehl Defence IRIS-T licensed product

6. Oerlikon also provided IIR seeker for Som cruise missile.Most of the components used in SOM are sourced from small component vendors located in EU,USA. While others are bought by Rocketstan and Aselsan with costly TOT from french,Italian,German companies.

7. Same case with all Turkey naval missile boats/frigates. The new MILGEM project took shape with help of German. You guys can dig into the % break up of indigenous components

Turkey doesnt produce equipment at asian cost. Their systems are atleast 50% costlier than China which implies that Turkey private companies are paying huge royalty for using many western sub-systems



Pakistan,Iran,N-Korea have been working with solid rocket engine for 2decades but they cant produce dual pulse rocket engine:(Anyone will be surprised if Turks all of sudden come out with such massive breakthrough:)

IF Pakistan Joined MTCR then it can make all of these projects at home:) Everything is freely available in western market if you dont cross the limit of 300 KM!

R&D requires 3-4 decades of public sector effort. Turkish private sector companies mainly source LCU and sensors from abroad with some kind of long term licensing agreement.

Turkey never developed a simple 5-10 Km range track while scan radar before coming out with Doppler, Long range, 3 D radar, SAR, AESA radar, S/X band, Ku band seeker, IIR seeker,it claims to have made with in a decade:)


Also remember that home grown product built from scratch will look less appealing.

Look at the papers published by countries. Turkey is ranked top 19-20 but 1 rank behind iran.
India is light years ahead of Turkey.

Bro, obviously, Turkey is just a client state and an importer of technology. There is a lot more examples. For example, they talked about their "indigenous" UAV whilst even the mission computer is imported.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2015/09/uav-embedded-computing.html

There are literally dozens of more examples, like their assembling of German subs, their tanks is also mostly south Korean tech with german Engines and gun. Many other examples, some of which you listed.

These people actually think they can develop SAM's and missile on their own. They think these things are just toys that you can develop just like that. As you said, these things need decades of development.

What turks do is simple, they're part of NATO and import techs and also import tech from south korean etc and just put them together using designs made for them by yet again other nations and create something and claim it is indigenous.

Loool you just made me laugh there.
I love to see you debunk his statements. I am sure you were "laughing".

Once we make a long range missile, indigenous air defence and destroyer, we will automatically jump to India level or above.

What is India annual defence export? I'm surprised India is above Japan here, or even south Korea.
Don't forget space shuttles, death stars, millennium falcons etc.
Turkey should first develop a disel engine for its ships and an indigenous assault rifle before dreaming about things like long range missiles etc.
 

Nike

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Turkey couldnt develop inertial navigation system:) in house.
Indian makes its FOG(fiber optical gyroscope) INS(inertial navigation system)

Akash uses a FOG for example. In fact FOG technology is quite mature and FOGs are being produced in numbers. 200 FOGs for instance were recently delivered for the Akash program. FOGs are also being used for Tanks. We have FOGs of bias drift less than 0.01 degree per hour at the prototype stage currently. These are meant for ship based applications.

=> DRDO FOG many not be as good as northrop grunman but they are continuously working on improving it. I can see 4-5 papers from DRDO on Fog sensor!

Turkey got some TOT license for primitive INS from US in 90's
Google: transferofmilita00akgu_djvu.txt

But Aselsan still import FOG INS(inertial navigation system) but Aselsan are showing it as indigenous product


Ln-260 Fiber Optic Gyroscope Inertial Navigation System
with license from

The Northrop Grumman LN-260


A little-known fact that has gone largely unnoticed since the early 1990s has been the vital role played by Pakistan in the substantial expansion of Beijing-Ankara military-industrial collaboration over the last 17 years. Since 1985, Turkey has sent 18 military delegations comprising some 200 members while 14 Chinese military missions with about 330 representatives have visited Turkey at the same time. Sino-Turkish military-industrial cooperation began in the first half of the 1990s after Ankara’s negotiations with Washington for the joint production and technology transfer of the M-270 multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) failed. The US had then criticised Turkey for using US-supplied weapons for human rights abuses (against the Kurds), subsequently restricting weapons sales and military technology transfers to Turkey, and cutting off grants and loans earlier offered to Turkey for US-origin weapons. It was Pakistan which then informed Turkey that China was ready to fill the void, provided Turkey was willing to cooperate with China in the so-called fight against ‘Eastern Turkestan (Xinjiang)-sponsored terrorism’, namely to restrict, monitor and prevent the activities of Uyghur national organisations and leaders, most of whom were and are still based in Turkey. Consequently, since 1997 the Third Bureau (military attachés) of the People’s Liberation Army’s (PLA) General Staff Second Department (dealing with military intelligence) has been operating in Turkey as one of its most important, and presumably one of the most active, stations. Also in 1997, Turkey for the first time signed a contract with China for the procurement of 24 WS-1 302mm unguided rockets as well as 144 rockets for licenced-assembly in Turkey, to be supplied between 1998 and 2000. Turkey next began licence-producing the TR-300 rockets (or T-302, upgraded from the four-barrel WS-1B MLRS) under under the Turkish designation Kasırga (tornado).

In late 1998, based on a similar contract signed with the state-owned China Precision Machinery Import-Export Corp (CPMIEC), Ankara ordered some 15 of China’s most advanced short-range surface-to-surface battlefield support missiles (SSBSM)--the 150km-range B-611--and under Project J-600T, began license-producing an additional 200 more under a US$300 million deal. The first such missiles—known as Yıldırım (thunderbolt), were deployed as early as 2001. The solid-fuelled Yildirim-2 variant, featuring a 300km-range, was subsequently developed jointly by the defence industries research and development institute of the Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey (TUBITAK-SAGE), Mechanical and Chemical Industry Corp (MKEK), and the state-owned China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp (CASIC), while it was series-produced by Roket Sanayii ve Ticaret (Roketsan). Another product jointly developed by TUBITAK and CASIC (and produced by Roketsan) since 2004 is the 70mm (2.75-inch) ‘Cirit’ guided air-to-surface missile, which is derived from the Tianyan TY-90 (Heavenly Swallow) air-to-air missile. The ‘Cirit’ features a semi-active laser homing seeker, Goodrich Corp-built SiIMU-02 inertial measurement unit (IMU) and a 3kg armour-piercing warhead built with Class 5 insensitive munitions. The 14kg, 1.9 metre-long missile has a range of 8km with a high probability of hit on a 3 × 3 metre target at this rang
India is light years ahead of Turkey.

Bro, obviously, Turkey is just a client state and an importer of technology. There is a lot more examples. For example, they talked about their "indigenous" UAV whilst even the mission computer is imported.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2015/09/uav-embedded-computing.html

There are literally dozens of more examples, like their assembling of German subs, their tanks is also mostly south Korean tech with german Engines and gun. Many other examples, some of which you listed.

These people actually think they can develop SAM's and missile on their own. They think these things are just toys that you can develop just like that. As you said, these things need decades of development.

What turks do is simple, they're part of NATO and import techs and also import tech from south korean etc and just put them together using designs made for them by yet again other nations and create something and claim it is indigenous.



I love to see you debunk his statements. I am sure you were "laughing".



Don't forget space shuttles, death stars, millennium falcons etc.
Turkey should first develop a disel engine for its ships and an indigenous assault rifle before dreaming about things like long range missiles etc.
don't belittle Turkish industrial military capability, their license production, R&D and Joint Venture efforts has boost their technological advance into the entirely new phase of progress in military field. India has done the same path since 60's decade, with their effort to bring home Kurt tank Plane design. Turkish too has a well known programme to promote their industrial military companies to world wide customer, something the Iran and India entirely lacks albeit supposedly the so called more achievement in the field.

Most of International buyer will knowing the products of FNSS, Aselsan, Rocketsan, Otokar and other compared to some products made by Indian companies like HAL, meanwhile Iran is not be known entirely.....
 

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