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Wing Reinforcement Makes Thunder More Lethal !

Hodor

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I thought it was 800 Litres initially, however wasn't the first JF-17 loss due to this factor.
That was due to over-Gs.. I think

There was no problem with load carrying capability but only of stability after one missile was launched.
Stability can be easily maintained by trimming and autopilot

A salvo---? In extreme circumstances---but then can both the missiles get a target lock at the same time---that is what I doubt---.

The dumb bombs can be targeted---. But missiles are different---.
Targets are locked by the aircraft's radar and not by the weapon itself (till the missile goes Pitbull) so yes you can fire multiple weapons at a target.

This can be done through different modes,you can set delay between release of both weapons as well as release them manually as per your scenario.

Dumb bombs are totally different thing,you can literally drop them on anything.Just point the pipper on the target ( ccip ) and drop the weapon or just lock from FCR ( ccrp) and drop.Release quantity totally depends on targets number and defense capabilities,its a totally different game from guided munitions.

yup the radar can do that when a target is selected all the information is linked to the weapon it takes some time to be able to fire the weapon but once everything is locked and loaded you can go ahead and fire both at the same time.

I am not saying that you are wrong about AVM but rather what I have gathered is that mainly for such missions it is preferred to fire twice, The chance of these missiles making it to the ship are slim because the ships have a strong defense system.

CM400akg is a high speed weapon but we know very less about the way it engages its target but I am confident it comes down from high altitude and if that is the case I would be in the favor of firing 2.

It would make sense to fire one missile but than that must be on the center hard point if that is not the case than IDK how drastic the trim would be and if it is even possible to it.
Weapons are armed/powered on before entering the battlefield so as soon as you lock a target you dont need any warm up time and can fire it right away.

Firing both weapons at the same time is not a good idea for example if target is a SAM radar,you will lose both your missiles as soon as the enemy turns off their radar (and that's exactly how SEAD works,you suppress the enemy radars).In case of ships you can fire both weapons at same target but not at the same time,not a good idea...fire one and then keep pushing as much as you can to fire the second, this can be done in many ways..

Most anti-ship missiles do skimming after launch and fly very low to prevent detection or getting shot down and pull up only after a certain distance from the target,not sure how JF17 missiles work
 

maverick1977

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so total of 3 MK84 carried by JF17? can it carrry AAM along with it in this configuration? 2 SD10 and 2 PL5 on wing tips with three MK84?
 

Windjammer

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so total of 3 MK84 carried by JF17? can it carrry AAM along with it in this configuration? 2 SD10 and 2 PL5 on wing tips with three MK84?
JF-17 can be loaded with over 4000 kg of weapons, the three MK-84 have combined load of around 3000 kg....so technically it can carry the additional air to air missiles.
 

Akh1112

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Oh my god ... this bullshit must have been from the same secret source known only to you who reported that Block 3 uses an Italian engine and can fire AMRAAM! :crazy:

In Germany one would say that was a classic own goal. With arrogance on the field and then something like this ...

Since when has the CM-400 been certified for the centreline station/hardpoint of the JF-17? IMO it simply does not fit.

@Quwa @Akh1112 ... maybe you can explain him or correct me.

So much on showing stupidity but sorry, You are the great analyst and aerodynamic mastermind. :omghaha:

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negative, it does not fit and has not been certified. Ignore him lol
 

maverick1977

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JF-17 can be loaded with over 4000 kg of weapons, the three MK-84 have combined load of around 3000 kg....so technically it can carry the additional air to air missiles.
3x900 MK84 + 4X 180Kg SD10A = 3420Kgs
3x900 MK84 + 6x 180Kgs SD10A (plyon 2 and 6 with dual racks) = 3780kgs. Depends on the wing loading of Pylon 2 and 6.
just to give an idea on how massive mk84 is


 
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maverick1977

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It would not get far with that configuration, JF17 is fuel limited and always carrys 2 bags with it for most missions.
Just a FYI, it can cover any mission profile in kashmir for direct strikes of mk84 JDAM kit, plus can strike Ambala and back..
for sub continent and PAF needs its more than sufficient without external fuel
 
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Hi,

Now you are showing stupidity---. You are one very less intelligent person.

If the single missile under the belly is released why would it effect the flight umbrella---the weight was on centerline---the weight got released from centerline---why would there be any rollover effect.

There is no imbalance of weight on the side mounts.

The only thing happening to the plane would be that it would rear upwards due to weight loss.

You and green MS shamelessly argue aerodynamics---effects of weight shift---weight release from one wing and the effects of the physical weight on the other wing on the aircraft and the tendency of the aircraft to rollover.

the JF17 is a very small aircraft---.

The missille instability issue was stated by pakistan air force's air vice marshall on an interview and that is available on this website and public forums---.

Green / white---go to the grain market today---where they have very large scales---. mount 200 lbs on each side of the scale---. Now pull the weight off one side very fast and see what happens tot he scale.

Son---you should have done study at college univeristy rather that watching **** and jerking off all the time---and same to you Deino.
ever heard fuel management system of jets and Airliners of the world, if we assume one wing have a heavy weapon and other wing have no or lighter weapon than fuel automatically flows onto the other wing where lighter weapon is attached to compensate the imbalance created by lighter weapon on other side
 

Akh1112

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Could you try to explain him, since it's quite difficult to ignore him or better said, the BS he claims ... but maybe he listens to you since you are not a nasty, stupid German teacher. :laugh:
Hey, im just a stupid kid who knows nothing, he knows more than me because he is older, or something. Atleast, that's what he said
 
Jan 3, 2020
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That was due to over-Gs.. I think


Stability can be easily maintained by trimming and autopilot


Targets are locked by the aircraft's radar and not by the weapon itself (till the missile goes Pitbull) so yes you can fire multiple weapons at a target.

This can be done through different modes,you can set delay between release of both weapons as well as release them manually as per your scenario.

Dumb bombs are totally different thing,you can literally drop them on anything.Just point the pipper on the target ( ccip ) and drop the weapon or just lock from FCR ( ccrp) and drop.Release quantity totally depends on targets number and defense capabilities,its a totally different game from guided munitions.


Weapons are armed/powered on before entering the battlefield so as soon as you lock a target you dont need any warm up time and can fire it right away.

Firing both weapons at the same time is not a good idea for example if target is a SAM radar,you will lose both your missiles as soon as the enemy turns off their radar (and that's exactly how SEAD works,you suppress the enemy radars).In case of ships you can fire both weapons at same target but not at the same time,not a good idea...fire one and then keep pushing as much as you can to fire the second, this can be done in many ways..

Most anti-ship missiles do skimming after launch and fly very low to prevent detection or getting shot down and pull up only after a certain distance from the target,not sure how JF17 missiles work
Judging by the supersonic characteristics of the Cm400 akg I think it will high flying missile. You are right the missiles can be fired right away if they are loaded with the data before hand.
 

aziqbal

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a 2,000 lb is a HUGE bomb and I mean HUGE !

if its true the JF17 can carry a 2,000 pounder this is amazing for such a light fighter and also small one

what a heavy hitter !!
 

MastanKhan

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That was due to over-Gs.. I think


Stability can be easily maintained by trimming and autopilot


Targets are locked by the aircraft's radar and not by the weapon itself (till the missile goes Pitbull) so yes you can fire multiple weapons at a target.

This can be done through different modes,you can set delay between release of both weapons as well as release them manually as per your scenario.

Dumb bombs are totally different thing,you can literally drop them on anything.Just point the pipper on the target ( ccip ) and drop the weapon or just lock from FCR ( ccrp) and drop.Release quantity totally depends on targets number and defense capabilities,its a totally different game from guided munitions.


Weapons are armed/powered on before entering the battlefield so as soon as you lock a target you dont need any warm up time and can fire it right away.

Firing both weapons at the same time is not a good idea for example if target is a SAM radar,you will lose both your missiles as soon as the enemy turns off their radar (and that's exactly how SEAD works,you suppress the enemy radars).In case of ships you can fire both weapons at same target but not at the same time,not a good idea...fire one and then keep pushing as much as you can to fire the second, this can be done in many ways..

Most anti-ship missiles do skimming after launch and fly very low to prevent detection or getting shot down and pull up only after a certain distance from the target,not sure how JF17 missiles work
Hi,

You teaching me basics---? I have been teaching you kids for the last 15 years now and here you are talking about the basics---.

It is easier to say than show that stability can be maintained by trimming and auto pilot.

You kids like to talk without any PRINCIPAALS OF PHYSICS behind your claims. JF17 is a very small aircraft with a small wing area. Any shift in HEAVY weight closer to the fuselage---but away from it---or a sudden lack of weight on one side would put the aircraft in a non recoverable roll and dive and spin.

The delay is the death sentence---the moment the heavy missile is released on one side---the aircraft goes out of control instantly.
ever heard fuel management system of jets and Airliners of the world, if we assume one wing have a heavy weapon and other wing have no or lighter weapon than fuel automatically flows onto the other wing where lighter weapon is attached to compensate the imbalance created by lighter weapon on other side

Son,

I have been teaching this forum about weapons for the past 15 years plus by now---. Don't give me flimsy excuses that you have overheard---.

Fuel management system does nothing in this case---the loss / shift of weight is too high.

Fuel management systems work when they have ample time to make the correction---and a large wing area. Over here there are only seconds and that is not enough and the wing is too small.
 

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