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Will the advanced Chinese- Pakistani "JF-17 Block 3" fighter be the next guest of the Egyptian Air Force?

Huffal

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Now you are talking BS.. and showing more ignorance about the subject.. 67 war there was no air fights.. Comparing the Mig 17 and Mig 21 to the F-4 in 73 and saying a small difference is utter ignorance as the F-4 was a full generation ahead of anything Egypt had.. The Arabs were fighting the US behind tiny Usrael.. if you didn't know that you shouls stop talking about this subject..

Anyway the end justify the means and you can't do nothing about it with your jealousy here.. Egypt got back its Sinai by force of arms..air, land and sea..


Either you are forgetting your own post, that being 'FLYING Arab ACES (1967 - 1973)' or you are contradicting yourself. What's the point of putting 67-73 in the title when as per your own words they weren't any dogfights during 67 war?

And the fact that there weren't any dogfights during the 67 war goes to show how terrible the EAF performed. Where were the Caps? The defences, the counter attack? None of it happened. Because Egypt was not prepared mentally to fight them. Had they been prepared they would've contested the air space since day 1 like the PAF had done in all its wars.

And if you gonna quote me, do it correctly.

I said there was a smaller tech disparity between the 2 air forces. I didn't say it was small. I said it was smaller.

Also the mig 21 was a good counter to the f4. It featured a2a missiles, supersonic capability, delta winged design etc. It should've been a match for those iaf mirage III and f4e. But nope.

Mig 17 understandable.


Oh and they were fighting the us? Dude. They had US support. Regardless of it, you still should've been able to outgun them easily with the coalition you formed.

But you chimped out. Scared of Mr USA gonna invade. Dude. How did you think the Muslims felt when fighting the qurraish and their allies. They were outnumbered, out gunned. But the Muslims still won.


Also what am I jealous of regarding Egypt? I have nothing to be jealous of because there is nothing there to be jealous of.
 

Huffal

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1. The Israelis could only counter attack because the US replaced all their losses. It was irrelevant how many losses the Egyptians inflicted on them, the US woulld replace them. With this political fact, it made an egyptian defeat inevitable.

2. The US guarantees Israel unconditional support, this means that the often stated belief that Israel could have been destroyed is totally ridiculous.

3. With Israeli/US air superiority, the idea of the Egyptian army moving towards the Israeli border was never even a possibility. The Egyptians knew this. Infact the plan called for crossing the canal and little beyond that because of strategic realities.


True. Although still a coalition the size of 1mil troops should've negated that. They outnumbered them. Which leaves me to this point. It was purely down to tactics and training. Bravery and fearlessness was what the soldiers already had, they needed better training and the leaders better tactics.

Unconditional support was what was more or less given to the Arab coalition during the 73 war. The Soviets shipped over 63k tonnes worth of supplies and weaponry to them through out the course of the war.

Air superiorty could have been denied had the EAF received better pilot training and denied them the air space.
 

jamal18

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True. Although still a coalition the size of 1mil troops should've negated that. They outnumbered them. Which leaves me to this point. It was purely down to tactics and training. Bravery and fearlessness was what the soldiers already had, they needed better training and the leaders better tactics.

Unconditional support was what was more or less given to the Arab coalition during the 73 war. The Soviets shipped over 63k tonnes worth of supplies and weaponry to them through out the course of the war.

Air superiorty could have been denied had the EAF received better pilot training and denied them the air space.
If you read the book 'The ramadan war' by the Egyptian general who planned it all, he said categorically that the relationship with the USSR was different. Israel had 'unconditional' support from the US; the Arabs didn't have the same with the USSR.

This is a key to understanding that Israel, at that time, could not have been beaten.
 

The SC

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Either you are forgetting your own post, that being 'FLYING Arab ACES (1967 - 1973)' or you are contradicting yourself. What's the point of putting 67-73 in the title when as per your own words they weren't any dogfights during 67 war?

And the fact that there weren't any dogfights during the 67 war goes to show how terrible the EAF performed. Where were the Caps? The defences, the counter attack? None of it happened. Because Egypt was not prepared mentally to fight them. Had they been prepared they would've contested the air space since day 1 like the PAF had done in all its wars.

And if you gonna quote me, do it correctly.

I said there was a smaller tech disparity between the 2 air forces. I didn't say it was small. I said it was smaller.

Also the mig 21 was a good counter to the f4. It featured a2a missiles, supersonic capability, delta winged design etc. It should've been a match for those iaf mirage III and f4e. But nope.

Mig 17 understandable.


Oh and they were fighting the us? Dude. They had US support. Regardless of it, you still should've been able to outgun them easily with the coalition you formed.

But you chimped out. Scared of Mr USA gonna invade. Dude. How did you think the Muslims felt when fighting the qurraish and their allies. They were outnumbered, out gunned. But the Muslims still won.


Also what am I jealous of regarding Egypt? I have nothing to be jealous of because there is nothing there to be jealous of.
First it was no air war in Egypt in the 67 war.. all the Egyptian planes were destroyed on the ground by a surprise attack.. after the US president at that time said that whomever starts the war will bear the consequences.. Egypt restrained but Usrael attacked and there was no consequences..this already show the US duplicity in the region..

The Mig-21 could fly for half an hour max while the F-4 could loiter for 2 hours.. also the Mig-21 had no radar while the F-4 had one.. those are not smaller tech differences.. they are very big disparities..

If you look the Arab aces of 67 they were mostly Iraqis or Syrians..

You are coming up with things from your own mind here.. the 73 "coalition" haven't been more than 30 000 more troops and few fighter planes.. Egypt had 200 000.. with 150 000 fighting that war while Syria had 100 000 fighting the war..So all in all the Arabs had 350 000 troops on both fronts while the Usraeli reserves that went to the war were double that..this is very far from the millions you are talking about in your other post..So get you facts right before addressing me again..

OH.. so you could fight the US when it had drones bombing Pakistani troops directly.. ?? now you can stop your BS talk..
 

Huffal

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If you read the book 'The ramadan war' by the Egyptian general who planned it all, he said categorically that the relationship with the USSR was different. Israel had 'unconditional' support from the US; the Arabs didn't have the same with the USSR.

This is a key to understanding that Israel, at that time, could not have been beaten.
Understandable. Thank you for your replies.
 

Huffal

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First it was no air war in Egypt in the 67 war.. all the Egyptian planes were destroyed on the ground by a surprise attack.. after the US president at that time said that whomever starts the war will bear the consequences.. Egypt restrained but Usrael attacked and there was no consequences..this already show the US duplicity in the region..

The Mig-21 could fly for half an hour max while the F-4 could loiter for 2 hours.. also the Mig-21 had no radar while the F-4 had one.. those are not smaller tech differences.. they are very big disparities..

If you look the Arab aces of 67 they were mostly Iraqis or Syrians..

You are coming up with things from your own mind here.. the 73 "coalition" haven't been more than 30 000 more troops and few fighter planes.. Egypt had 200 000.. with 150 000 fighting that war while Syria had 100 000 fighting the war..So all in all the Arabs had 350 000 troops on both fronts while the Usraeli reserves that went to the war were double that..this is very far from the millions you are talking about in your other post..So get you facts right before addressing me again..

OH.. so you could fight the US when it had drones bombing Pakistani troops directly.. ?? now you can stop your BS talk..
First it was no air war in Egypt in the 67 war.. all the Egyptian planes were destroyed on the ground by a surprise attack.. after the US president at that time said that whomever starts the war will bear the consequences.. Egypt restrained but Usrael attacked and there was no consequences..this already show the US duplicity in the region..

The Mig-21 could fly for half an hour max while the F-4 could loiter for 2 hours.. also the Mig-21 had no radar while the F-4 had one.. those are not smaller tech differences.. they are very big disparities..

If you look the Arab aces of 67 they were mostly Iraqis or Syrians..

You are coming up with things from your own mind here.. the 73 "coalition" haven't been more than 30 000 more troops and few fighter planes.. Egypt had 200 000.. with 150 000 fighting that war while Syria had 100 000 fighting the war..So all in all the Arabs had 350 000 troops on both fronts while the Usraeli reserves that went to the war were double that..this is very far from the millions you are talking about in your other post..So get you facts right before addressing me again..

OH.. so you could fight the US when it had drones bombing Pakistani troops directly.. ?? now you can stop your BS talk..
So the fact there was no air war goes to show the lack of preparation the EAF had. As I had said before a competent air force would have had caps, counter attacks and proper defences setup in such a time. Failure in doing so is a failure of planning.

Egypt had 200,000 soldiers that had crossed the line. In addition to that, 150,000 Syrian soldiers fought, 3000 KSA soldiers fought, 5500 Moroccan soldiers, 1500-4000 Cuban troops (?) with many thousands of tanks.

Wait, my problem isn't to do with the Arab ground forces, its the air force.

I literally never said the mig 21 was more advanced than the phantom. I said the phantom was more advanced.

Also the mig 21 I'm sure had a radar. Just checked they did have a radar. EAF was using the mig21mf and mig 21fl variants. Both equipped with radars.

So yes the tech disparity was SMALLER. Not small, but SMALLER.

Listen my dude, sometimes you need to accept your failures to improve. Pakistan did it from 1971, i don't know if the EAF did it with their air wars because I have no idea about their current pilot training.

But dude. Srsly. Don't get so upset or hostile at me. I'm not here to bait or crap on the Arab militaries. Defos not on the troops. I know that Israel took heavier losses than what they claim they did (I mean 2200 kia throughout the course of the 73 war is sus), but the EAF took heavy casualties as well. The EAD did well, the army did alright, the EAF was the weak link.


Also your comment about the US drone attacks on our troops is funny. Straight after those attacks we blocked the NATO supply routes going through Pakistan and equipped each of our FC posts with MANPADs and other AD equipment.

Also not to mention how we crapped up the US heli pilots during the supposed 2011 abottabad raid when our f16 painted their helis 3 times in a row as according to their own pilot(s)
 

The SC

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So the fact there was no air war goes to show the lack of preparation the EAF had. As I had said before a competent air force would have had caps, counter attacks and proper defences setup in such a time. Failure in doing so is a failure of planning.

Egypt had 200,000 soldiers that had crossed the line. In addition to that, 150,000 Syrian soldiers fought, 3000 KSA soldiers fought, 5500 Moroccan soldiers, 1500-4000 Cuban troops (?) with many thousands of tanks.

Wait, my problem isn't to do with the Arab ground forces, its the air force.

I literally never said the mig 21 was more advanced than the phantom. I said the phantom was more advanced.

Also the mig 21 I'm sure had a radar. Just checked they did have a radar. EAF was using the mig21mf and mig 21fl variants. Both equipped with radars.

So yes the tech disparity was SMALLER. Not small, but SMALLER.

Listen my dude, sometimes you need to accept your failures to improve. Pakistan did it from 1971, i don't know if the EAF did it with their air wars because I have no idea about their current pilot training.

But dude. Srsly. Don't get so upset or hostile at me. I'm not here to bait or crap on the Arab militaries. Defos not on the troops. I know that Israel took heavier losses than what they claim they did (I mean 2200 kia throughout the course of the 73 war is sus), but the EAF took heavy casualties as well. The EAD did well, the army did alright, the EAF was the weak link.


Also your comment about the US drone attacks on our troops is funny. Straight after those attacks we blocked the NATO supply routes going through Pakistan and equipped each of our FC posts with MANPADs and other AD equipment.

Also not to mention how we crapped up the US heli pilots during the supposed 2011 abottabad raid when our f16 painted their helis 3 times in a row as according to their own pilot(s)
The Arabs then cut OIL to the whole West.. did you ever think why?

Can't agree with you on the EAF performance..Al Mansoura air battle was the longest in history and the 50 Migs did very well against the 110 best western fighter planes of that time.. that was just an example of how the EAF performed.. it went like that many times during the war..

Well since you seem stuck in time.. let's end this conversation here.. you are talking about 50 years ago and trying to make it sound like today.. I understand your pain..
 

Huffal

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The Arabs then cut OIL to the whole West.. did you ever think why?

Can't agree with you on the EAF performance..Al Mansoura air battle was the longest in history and the 50 Migs did very well against the 110 best western fighter planes of that time.. that was just an example of how the EAF performed.. it went like that many times during the war..

Well since you seem stuck in time.. let's end this conversation here.. you are talking about 50 years ago and trying to make it sound like today.. I understand your pain..
The EAF performance at the air battle of mansoura was one of their best performances throughout the entirety of the war. I agree.


But how many a2a kills did the EAF rack up? 90? Against the 387 iaf fighters they shot down? That leaves the EAD to have shot down 297 iaf fighters. The EAF only made up 23% of the kills during that war.

Where as they lost around some 174 aircraft in a2a combat?

I'm not stuck in time. Never have been.
 

Deltadart

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The EAF performance at the air battle of mansoura was one of their best performances throughout the entirety of the war. I agree.


But how many a2a kills did the EAF rack up? 90? Against the 387 iaf fighters they shot down? That leaves the EAD to have shot down 297 iaf fighters. The EAF only made up 23% of the kills during that war.

Where as they lost around some 174 aircraft in a2a combat?

I'm not stuck in time. Never have been.
Look man, you are wasting time with these people. You know they have what we call ,akar, in pakistan. We regard them as our brothers, and take pride in their accomplishments, but they think of us as lesser beings, and belittle us, and for some strange reason only known to them, they think we are jealous of them. 😆
 

jamal18

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First it was no air war in Egypt in the 67 war.. all the Egyptian planes were destroyed on the ground by a surprise attack.. after the US president at that time said that whomever starts the war will bear the consequences.. Egypt restrained but Usrael attacked and there was no consequences..this already show the US duplicity in the region..

The Mig-21 could fly for half an hour max while the F-4 could loiter for 2 hours.. also the Mig-21 had no radar while the F-4 had one.. those are not smaller tech differences.. they are very big disparities..

If you look the Arab aces of 67 they were mostly Iraqis or Syrians..

You are coming up with things from your own mind here.. the 73 "coalition" haven't been more than 30 000 more troops and few fighter planes.. Egypt had 200 000.. with 150 000 fighting that war while Syria had 100 000 fighting the war..So all in all the Arabs had 350 000 troops on both fronts while the Usraeli reserves that went to the war were double that..this is very far from the millions you are talking about in your other post..So get you facts right before addressing me again..

OH.. so you could fight the US when it had drones bombing Pakistani troops directly.. ?? now you can stop your BS talk..

The US made it clear to the Egyptians that if the attacked the Israelis, the US would come in on there side.

The Egyptians expected an Israeli attack on their airfields, even to the extent of accepting 10% casualties. They had no idea of the runway cratering bomb.

The defeat of the Egyptian army, according to the judicial inquiry afterwards, was due to the order of the Egyptian c-in-c to carry out a 'strategic withdrawl' from sinai. Egyptian eastern command in sinai was angry at this and did its best to thwart it. The officers of the eastern command had no doubt that they could have held sinai at the passes even without the egyptian air force.
 

Huffal

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Look man, you are wasting time with these people. You know they have what we call ,akar, in pakistan. We regard them as our brothers, and take pride in their accomplishments, but they think of us as lesser beings, and belittle us, and for some strange reason only known to them, they think we are jealous of them. [emoji38]
Sad but true

Also lol at them thinking we are jealous of them.
 

IbnAbdullah

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Salaam

What a strange and sad thread. Why can't we talk to each other with respect and show some dignity and class.

People are acting pointlessly arrogant and condescending towards each other.

If most if us have acquired the knowledge from reading about it in books (as opposed to being there) we should leave some room for doubt.

I've read about the Arab Israeli conflict in an war strategy book written by an American and they praised the Egyptians for their strategy and execution.

However, I realise I could have understood the message incorrectly or the writer of the book was mistaken.

Just like that, Pakistan has had its share of problems and we do continue to do so. Pakistan, like our Egyptian brothers, has a long way to go before we can say we've realized our potential.

Instead of relatively putting each other down why not just agree that what you each know is different and either could be wrong.
 

Huffal

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No way to acquire the flying coakroach even if it was Chinese which may enhance its reputation.


You mean what happened to you in 1971? :haha:


Have you received the Egyptian third hand Mirage 5 Horus that dates back to the 70th to enhance the capabilities of your tiny American based air force?


They are only living in their sweet daydreams on a Pakistani forum :D
No way to acquire the flying coakroach even if it was Chinese which may enhance its reputation.


You mean what happened to you in 1971? :haha:


Have you received the Egyptian third hand Mirage 5 Horus that dates back to the 70th to enhance the capabilities of your tiny American based air force?


They are only living in their sweet daydreams on a Pakistani forum :D

Gee I wonder how many operational fighter aircraft Egypt has made in a joint venture? Oh wait... 0.


Ah just like the indians you peddle the 71 myth. You know even in our history's darkest hour our air force still came out on top.

What was the score again?

iaf losses: 71
Paf losses: 42

If we wanna talk about the end result of the full war then Pakistan still gained the advantage in taking 120sqm of the chamb whereas India retained its gains in kargil.

Unlike you whose airforce was completely destroyed by the iaf in 67.

Your military sucks and it still does today.


Lol you talking about the mirage 5 horus? They are most likely being cannibalised for spare parts m8, that's if the deal has even gone ahead.

Gee wake me up once Egypt actually starts to build a powerful military. Or even better wakes up from their arrogant little jealous world of theirs, where anything that is even perceived to be better than them, is suddenly a threat to their existence. Cope.


I love how you mock our airforce. Even though it never lost air superiority once nor has it ever lost more air craft than their enemy once

65: 75-114 iaf shot down, 19-20 paf shot down

71: 71 iaf shot down, 42 paf shot down

67 arab Israeli war: 8-10+ Israeli airforce shot down, 0 paf shot down

73 war: 12+ iaf shot down, 0 paf shot down

Afgan war: 9+ SuAAF/AAF shot down, 1 paf shot down.

2019: 2 iaf shot down, 0 paf shot down.


Cope some more you ignorant donkey
 

jedijedi

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I would be completely against selling Egypt JF17B3s, im all for selling them the block 1/2 versions with downgraded avionics. Selling them our best jets would be giving India/Israel our latest technology.
what technology in JF17 B3 would Israel bhi super interested in stealing.
 

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