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Why was Pakistan needed for Indian Muslims?

Clutch

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[/QUOTE]
Ideas evolve, Islam is also a progressive evolution of ideas and so also will Islam evolve.

Please read the last part of this post of mine and then read this followup post of mine.
Islam is Islam.

You are either with Islam; or you are with the Enemies of Islam.

AllahuAkbar
 

Goenitz

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Ideas evolve, Islam is also a progressive evolution of ideas and so also will Islam evolve.
The core principles of Islam have been remain same since Hz Adam (AS). Then there are grey areas like how much we have to follow an aspect, like Hijab. Then there are issue which are community based.

Just, we can't change the core as the Creator knows what is everlasting for humanity (primitive to modern times).
 

jamahir

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Islam is Islam.

You are either with Islam; or you are with the Enemies of Islam.

AllahuAkbar
Since you refuse to read my linked posts you seem to be confused about the real philosophy of and reason for Islam. You seem to be Muslim just because your family was and your birth culture was. You seem to have a shallow understanding of Islam hence your constant need to say Allahu Akbar without condemning the wrong people who scream that.

Read those links.

The core principles of Islam have been remain same since Hz Adam (AS).
Bhai, Hazrat Isa preached against the socio-economic wrongs done by traditional money lenders and that led to the inclusion of that idea in the progressive socio-economic laws in the later Islam. So an evolution of thought. Just like Vertical Farming is an evolution of traditional open land agriculture.

Then there are grey areas like how much we have to follow an aspect, like Hijab. Then there are issue which are community based.
Agreed.

Just, we can't change the core as the Creator knows what is everlasting for humanity (primitive to modern times).
Yet there are social, economic, political and technological injustices or wrongs. :) But the Creator gives us the sensibility to correct those injustices and wrongs and think of progressing humanity.

As for what is everlasting for humanity you should read the magnificent sci-fi book series Dune by Frank Herbert in which he postulates the social, political and technological path for humanity across thousands of years. His is just one of the human-imagined paths. You will be happy to know that a lot of that work is inspired by Islamic theme other than Jewish and Christian elements and I guarantee you, you will be entranced by the vast scope, sophistication and empathy of the work. In fact there is a Dune film soon to be released, possibly this year. You can watch the trailer here. But it seems not to be as good as the 1984 film or the year 2000 three episode TV mini-series that perhaps follows the first three parts of the book. I recommend you watch the mini-series now ( first episode here and the remaining two episodes in subsequent YT suggestions list ). I haven't begun to start the series myself but I glanced through it and it seems to be interesting. And then please buy the books at the most convenient time. As I said you will be entranced. I began reading them many years ago and I think I have done the series. The books will always be more impressive than the films.
 
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merzifonlu

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Islam is Islam.

You are either with Islam; or you are with the Enemies of Islam.

AllahuAkbar
[/QUOTE]

This is a fascist and fundamentalist statement. There are many Islams. Also, not every non-Muslim is an enemy of Islam. If this is the dominant mind set in Pakistan, I'm afraid a dark and bloody future awaits Pakistan. Just like Afghanistan...
 

Clutch

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Islam is Islam.

You are either with Islam; or you are with the Enemies of Islam.

AllahuAkbar
This is a fascist and fundamentalist statement. There are many Islams. Also, not every non-Muslim is an enemy of Islam. If this is the dominant mind set in Pakistan, I'm afraid a dark and bloody future awaits Pakistan. Just like Afghanistan...
[/QUOTE]

Nope...
Only One Quran & Only One Allah = One Islam


Yes, there are many Islamic ideological approaches, there is plurality, there is tolerance of interpretation, there is plurality.

I am actually very open minded about all that. But for all the islamaphobes out there such as Hindutva who wish we divide us... I say screw you... There is only One Islam and we are all One.

Hindu extremist ideology of moo par Ram Ram Baghaal May Chooree has to be defeated with unity.
 

Kuru

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You're just regurgitating the same nonsense,
May be you shouldn't ask the same thing again and again.

come back to me when two Bengals overlook their religious differences and get united on ethnic basis.
See you did this again. This has already been replied in previous posts. You didnt seem to read it properly. All the best this time.

By the way, you didnt answer the question: why does Bangladesh exist in the first place?

The originnal plan of Ch Rahmat Ali had many Muslim countries/states in sub-continent, as it have been from centuries. In fact, India is the first time as a unified (w/o vassal states) country came to being in 1947.

Pakistan was never meant to have, Bengal in it. It was named Bengalistan. The name Pakistan is Pak-stan, comprising initials from Punjab, Afgania (KPK), Kashmir, Sindh and tan from Baluchistan
View attachment 769575
@Clutch @Reichsmarschall
Do you mean that Jinnah wasnt smart enough to understand this and hence created ONE Pakistan for Indian Muslims instead of TWO (Or multiple states)?

Why did Jinnah create just one Pakistan in the end? He could've always created multiple states, couldn't he?

Irrespective if "what could have been", the reality is this: Jinnah created ONE Pakistan for Indian Muslims, and that one doesn't exist anymore. May be because the logic, the ideology itself - that Muslims are one nation that is different from the Hindus - was flawed to begin with.
 

Clutch

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Islam is Islam.

You are either with Islam; or you are with the Enemies of Islam.

AllahuAkbar
This is a fascist and fundamentalist statement. There are many Islams. Also, not every non-Muslim is an enemy of Islam. If this is the dominant mind set in Pakistan, I'm afraid a dark and bloody future awaits Pakistan. Just like Afghanistan...
[/QUOTE]
Allahu Akbar without condemning the wrong people who scream that.
I scream it with pride ... Not your shame
 

jamahir

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I am actually very open minded about all that. But for all the islamaphobes out there such as Hindutva who wish we divide us... I say screw you... There is only One Islam and we are all One.
@merzifonlu is Turkish so he may not understand your allusion to Hindutva but what he says is right. And he may be Muslim too. Understand what he says.
 

Clutch

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Islam is Islam.

You are either with Islam; or you are with the Enemies of Islam.

AllahuAkbar
This is a fascist and fundamentalist statement. There are many Islams. Also, not every non-Muslim is an enemy of Islam. If this is the dominant mind set in Pakistan, I'm afraid a dark and bloody future awaits Pakistan. Just like Afghanistan...
[/QUOTE]

Yes, there are many Islamic ideological approaches, there is plurality, there is tolerance of interpretation, there is plurality.

I am actually very open minded about all that. But for all the islamaphobes out there such as Hindutva who wish we divide us... I say screw you... There is only One Islam and we are all One.

Hindu extremist ideology of moo par Ram Ram Baghaal May Chooree has to be defeated with unity.

I am shia, I am Sunni, I am Sufi... I am also none... I am just Muslim.
@merzifonlu is Turkish so he may not understand your allusion to Hindutva but what he says is right. And he may be Muslim too. Understand what he says.
Indian Muslim who are Hindu apologist and appeasers are Gaddaar.
 

Goenitz

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Do you mean that Jinnah wasnt smart enough to understand this and hence created ONE Pakistan for Indian Muslims instead of TWO
Jinnah didn't do the partition. He accepted whatever given as challenge.
Jinnah created ONE Pakistan for Indian Muslims, and that one doesn't exist anymore
The 'Pakistan' created for Muslims is still there (Pakistan + Bangladesh). The secular 'India' created is no more, it is fascist/hindutva India.
 

Reichsmarschall

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why does Bangladesh exist in the first place?
Bangladeshis are Muslims and don't want to live with their brethren just across the border, hence why Bangladesh exists. Despite being created on ethnic lines they still don't want to include their ethnic brothers from other side.
why does Bangladesh exist in the first place?
Bangladeshis are Muslims and don't want to live with their brethren just across the border, hence why Bangladesh exists. Despite being created on ethnic lines they still don't want to include their ethnic brothers from other side.
 

Kuru

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Bangladeshis are Muslims and don't want to live with their brethren just across the border, hence why Bangladesh exists. Despite being created on ethnic lines they still don't want to include their ethnic brothers from other side.
Bangladesh exist because they dont want to be a part of India? Or do they exist because they DIDNT want to be the part of Pakistan?

Mind you, both are different things. Now think about it as honestly as you can. You dont even need to reply , just answer it for your own sake.

PS:
1. India never wanted to integrate Bangladesh. So if they dont want to be with Indian union makes absolutely no difference at all.

2. Pakistan of 1947, wanted to keep Bangladesh in the Pakistan Union. That makes all the difference.

These 2 things will help you make an informed decision.
 

Reichsmarschall

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Bangladesh exist because they dont want to be a part of India? Or do they exist because they DIDNT want to be the part of Pakistan?

Mind you, both are different things. Now think about it as honestly as you can. You dont even need to reply , just answer it for your own sake.

PS:
1. India never wanted to integrate Bangladesh. So if they dont want to be with Indian union makes absolutely no difference at all.

2. Pakistan of 1947, wanted to keep Bangladesh in the Pakistan Union. That makes all the difference.

These 2 things will help you make an informed decision.
Even if India wanted to integrate bangladesh the bengalis wouldn't agree to it just like the kashmiris.
Actually the president ayub wanted to make separate country in 60s because running two wings separated by 1000 Miles of enemy territory was proving to be difficult and inefficient even the original plan was to have one muslim country in east and one in west. Only reason bangladesh separated is because of geographical reasons and bhuttos reluctance to accept election. Otherwise mujeeb ur Rehman till very last moment never asked for independent country.

 

Kuru

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Even if India wanted to integrate bangladesh the bengalis wouldn't agree to it just like the kashmiris.
But we never wanted it and never proposed such union at all. So I don't know why are we even talking about it!

Actually the president ayub wanted to make separate country in 60s because running two wings separated by 1000 Miles of enemy territory was proving to be difficult and inefficien
If I am not wrong, Khan was thinking about 2 wings under federal union (not separate countries). Not too sure though, so you could well be right here.

Only reason bangladesh separated is because of geographical reasons and bhuttos reluctance to accept election.
There you go. The reluctance to accept the election results. That was the cause of break up (India was not the cause of it, just to be clear. The guys in Delhi only took the opportunity).

So we come back to square one. It isnt the religion that keeps a nation intact. It's the respect of each other's opinions (religious or otherwise) and more importantly, respect for the state institution.

I dont want to press too much now because I have already said it multiple times, the idea and the logic (that Muslims are separate country and hence should have a separate nations) was flawed from the beginning. And hence it didnt last long. Remember, inclusiveness is ALWAYS better. Not judging anyone, just stating what I believe to be true.

I dont have anything more to add here. Thank you for being civil all along. Take care.
 

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