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Why Pakistan could not be reformed / fixed so far?

VCheng

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Pakistan is short of 10 - 15 billion dollars a year. Exports and remittances can cover import bill but not debt repayments. So Pakistan must take additional 10 billion dollars at least per year to cover this deficit. That's why Pakistan's external debt is not stabilizing and if kept unchecked will lead to a Sri Lanka like situation in future

As long as its defense budget keeps rising, what is the problem here for the present? What may happen in the future is yet to be seen.
 

Norwegian

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You send remittances to the state or to your families?
Doesn't matter. All remittances end up in Pakistan and can then be utilized by state / govt to pay for its import bill and debt repayments

As long as its defense budget keeps rising, what is the problem here for the present?
As more and more of the budget is spent on debt servicing, all other sectors suffer from it
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Ssan

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How is that anything to do with who ultimately controls the levers of power?

Like I say no country run by the military has ever been economically successful.

If you can name me one then I will admit I was wrong.
General Park in SK who in fact developed it.
 
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Nobody's even talking about how RACISM is a huge problem in our country. The soft word for RACISTS in Pakistan is "Baradari" and this ugly and outdated concept prevails over everything else which is why our system is ROTTEN inside out. Until and unless this is addressed Pakistan has no future. We talk the talk but we can't walk the walk.

And yeah, Ganja and co, Zardari etc etc also need to be put behind bars for life.

Quite the opposite...

Pakistan needs more...
A natural order of community that protects it's own. If state was an honest arbiter, these natural constituencies would thrive...
Constitution of Medina brought peace between two major fighting clans and among people of different faiths and identities.

Remember a collective will always be more notable and consequential than a mishmash, if organized even more so...
State can however give equal room to others and allow them to form similar structures... keeping peace among them and not allowing one to discriminate over other on various parameters.
A clan or tribe is natural progression of a family, Baradari/phratry it's continuation!
 

Humble Analyst

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And yet, by any standard, Pak Army has been hugely successful in everything it has set its mind to do.
Strange

You send remittances to the state or to your families?
People send extra to buy land etc, the state benefits from the foreign exchange. His family left on state may not do well either. Time to acknowledge the facts instead of just arguing.
 

Ssan

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Two things have been a disaster for Pakistan- one is our political economy, the other are the two decades of PPP and PML-N rule.

1) First, political economy wise, ours is a South Asian problem. We like cheap stuff and blame govts when things get expensive, but Pakistan is considerably worse than India and Bangladesh in that it is even cheaper than those two and sets prices so low that they become impossible to produce at that level - never mind to export. For example, did you know that Pakistan was totally self sufficient in gas and 25-40% sufficient in oil until recently. What’s the current problem?- our local gas is priced so low at 10% what it costs for us to obtain it internationally that it is impossible for us to explore and develop new fields, similar problem to a lesser degree but for oil. We could probably have more than enough production of gas if we set this pricing regime right (at international market prices).

We should be totally self sufficient for agriculture but same problem here, have to import wheat now. Again, setting prices so low disincentivizes farmers from growing wheat and because there is a differential in global prices and local prices, smugglers ship our wheat stocks abroad where prices are higher (another words, buy wheat locally, sell at global price). There is also a cascade effect here- not setting wheat prices properly means that we can’t price water properly, means that we can’t build dams. It’s a disaster.

India and Bangladesh also have some level of this problem but not to the same extent. In general, commodity prices there are more expensive than they are in Pakistan. So they can develop more and attract FDI more because there local markets are attractive places to invest because the prices are somewhat reasonable.

2) the so called democratic parties are actually thug parties. Both are so corrupt that in the period of their rule (90s and 2008 forwards), there has been NO progress for Pakistan. Even with our political economy handicap in 1, we could probably grow at some level (like we did during Musharraf- and no, it was not because dollars were flowing in, the same dollars were flowing in post musharraf until PTI govt) and in fact pre 90s we were more developed in South Asia. Now, all the govt institutions are gangrened by political appointees in bureaucracy, judiciary, media and universities and elsewhere. It’s a f&@$ing mess.

Needs a cleansweep. Or new ways to get technical talent. And new laws to fix the judiciary and stuff. PTI is better than the other two here in 2 but frankly all current parties are to blame for political economy situation in 1.
 

Norwegian

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First, political economy wise, ours is a South Asian problem. We like cheap stuff and blame govts when things get expensive, but Pakistan is considerably worse than India and Bangladesh in that it is even cheaper than those two and sets prices so low that they become impossible to produce at that level - never mind to export. For example, did you know that Pakistan was totally self sufficient in gas and 25-40% sufficient in oil until recently. What’s the current problem?- our local gas is priced so low at 10% what it costs for us to obtain it internationally that it is impossible for us to explore and develop new fields, similar problem to a lesser degree but for oil. We could probably have more than enough production of gas if we set this pricing regime right (at international market prices).

We should be totally self sufficient for agriculture but same problem here, have to import wheat now. Again, setting prices so low disincentivizes farmers from growing wheat and because there is a differential in global prices and local prices, smugglers ship our wheat stocks abroad where prices are higher (another words, buy wheat locally, sell at global price). There is also a cascade effect here- not setting wheat prices properly means that we can’t price water properly, means that we can’t build dams. It’s a disaster.
Absolutely correct. When I visited Pakistan, prices seemed to totally not reflect international market. Such is the devastating nature of Pakistan's economy that it allows no price discovery. Hence there is always over production and shortage of stuff in the country. Your expert thoughts? @Patriot forever @ziaulislam @Wood @farok84 @blain2
 

Maula Jatt

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Two things have been a disaster for Pakistan- one is our political economy, the other are the two decades of PPP and PML-N rule.

1) First, political economy wise, ours is a South Asian problem. We like cheap stuff and blame govts when things get expensive, but Pakistan is considerably worse than India and Bangladesh in that it is even cheaper than those two and sets prices so low that they become impossible to produce at that level - never mind to export. For example, did you know that Pakistan was totally self sufficient in gas and 25-40% sufficient in oil until recently. What’s the current problem?- our local gas is priced so low at 10% what it costs for us to obtain it internationally that it is impossible for us to explore and develop new fields, similar problem to a lesser degree but for oil. We could probably have more than enough production of gas if we set this pricing regime right (at international market prices).

We should be totally self sufficient for agriculture but same problem here, have to import wheat now. Again, setting prices so low disincentivizes farmers from growing wheat and because there is a differential in global prices and local prices, smugglers ship our wheat stocks abroad where prices are higher (another words, buy wheat locally, sell at global price). There is also a cascade effect here- not setting wheat prices properly means that we can’t price water properly, means that we can’t build dams. It’s a disaster.

India and Bangladesh also have some level of this problem but not to the same extent. In general, commodity prices there are more expensive than they are in Pakistan. So they can develop more and attract FDI more because there local markets are attractive places to invest because the prices are somewhat reasonable.

2) the so called democratic parties are actually thug parties. Both are so corrupt that in the period of their rule (90s and 2008 forwards), there has been NO progress for Pakistan. Even with our political economy handicap in 1, we could probably grow at some level (like we did during Musharraf- and no, it was not because dollars were flowing in, the same dollars were flowing in post musharraf until PTI govt) and in fact pre 90s we were more developed in South Asia. Now, all the govt institutions are gangrened by political appointees in bureaucracy, judiciary, media and universities and elsewhere. It’s a f&@$ing mess.

Needs a cleansweep. Or new ways to get technical talent. And new laws to fix the judiciary and stuff. PTI is better than the other two here in 2 but frankly all current parties are to blame for political economy situation in 1.
dude prices were increasing and Pakistani people on this forum in 2020 were calling for the assassination of minsters, IK etc
it's very hard- we have become very lazy- for years we were given cheap gas in every home- other countries used it to industrialize we just cooked rotiyaan
same in every sector- people want the government to give them free healthcare (its happening now but at what cost?.....), elite want cheap imports, that why whatever phase we are going through malls are always full, our economy was tanking and for some reason, our car sales were booming ?
how tf does that happen? everyone is building western-style housing colonies
it seems only way to invest in the country is by buying plots or homes in these housing colonies

its a very weird economy, and makes very little sense
basic food, homeless shelters- that ok, that's needed, I won't complain
 

Cheepek

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Strange


People send extra to buy land etc, the state benefits from the foreign exchange. His family left on state may not do well either. Time to acknowledge the facts instead of just arguing.
Again- you buy land for the state or for yourself?
You want the state to be indebted to your wishes just because you use proper banking channels to transfer money?
 

Wood

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Absolutely correct. When I visited Pakistan, prices seemed to totally not reflect international market. Such is the devastating nature of Pakistan's economy that it allows no price discovery. Hence there is always over production and shortage of stuff in the country. Your expert thoughts? @Patriot forever @ziaulislam @Wood @farok84 @blain2
What is the subsidy / tax breakdown of fuel in Pakistan? I know that Pakistan's petrol prices are cheaper than that in India, but have not seen the breakdown.

I'm skeptical about what the other member said about gas prices bring lower than what it would cost to pump from local gas fields. If locally pumped gas is more expensive than imported gas, then market determinism will naturally not incentivise local extraction. Please note that lower gas prices to industry subsidize the export industry. :pop:
 

Humble Analyst

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Again- you buy land for the state or for yourself?
You want the state to be indebted to your wishes just because you use proper banking channels to transfer money?
You don’t understand and don’t want to. Just want to get the gains of foreign exchange and not acknowledge it.

You don’t understand and don’t to. Just ws t to get the gains of foreign exchsnge and not acknowledge it but don’t change.
When bare minimum foreign exchange will be sent then some smart people will realize, but this is not your problem.
 
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