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Why Muslim headcount in Indian Army necessary?

harpoon

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E=mc^2: Segregation in India: Plight of Muslims

^^^
glad that sumone from ur side accepts and analyzes the plight of muslims fairly

same thing is probably happening in the IA
Your answer lies in one of the comments itself.

One cannot attribute the low presence of Muslims in the IT industry solely to discrimination.

Cultural factors come into play here. For one, most conservative Muslims do not allow their women to work. So that robs 50% of their workforce right there. And you cannot blame Hindus for that.

Also you will find that Muslims are overrepresented in other professions such as real estate brokers, furniture shop owners, provisions merchants, dance teachers, gym instructors and so on. Virtually every other real estate broker I have come across in Bangalore is a Muslim, even though they form only 10% or so of the population. Also, anecdotally, I found Muslim guys to be overrepresented in Page 3 photos in Bangalore newspapers (often with a pretty Hindu girl in their arms). Whether that amounts to them being "discriminated", I don't know! Although surely Muslim women seem to be in that regard! Not to mention the number of Muslim male actors in Bollywood, where they are clearly overrepresented! Maybe Hindus should demand reservation for acting in Bollywood hero roles!

Let's face it, every community has a proclivity for certain lines of professions. Malayali Christians dominate the BPO/corporate training space as much as Tamil Brahmins dominate IT. People from North East states dominate the hospitality industry. It so happens that each is comfortable sticking to certain lines of profession because this is what they are most familiar with and have networks. As long as everyone is happy and has a decent standard of living, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Reservations are of no use if there are not enough qualified applicants from a community in the first place. In most cases, it it not because they get discriminated against in college, but because they choose to get into other lines of work, due to influences from within their own communities.
If I say about my state Kerala, anybody who have visited a GCC country will find Kerala Muslims running businesses there especially super markets including the LuLu Group. Its the same back in Kerala also. On the otherhand Christians dominate the finance sector. Some people are comfortable with some sectors.

As far as schools are concerned, I don't care what the blog says..Its all about money. If you are able to shell out money in the name of donation or development fund or whatever name they call it, your kid will get admission. If you don't have money, there is always the Govt schools with mid day meals.

Almost every community in India runs their schools and if its a minority run institution, there is provisions by which you can reserve a certain percentage of seats for kids belonging to that community.

Anyways I would like to know the % of Hindus & Sikhs in PA.
 

Tshering22

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E=mc^2: Segregation in India: Plight of Muslims

^^^
glad that sumone from ur side accepts and analyzes the plight of muslims fairly

same thing is probably happening in the IA
You should be the last one asking about plight of your people considering that my fellow Buddhists have been exterminated out of Pakistan and Afghanistan (once major Buddhist centres) and Hindus are almost eradicated today due to your wonderful religious love towards them.

First do what you want others to do and then talk.

The world is a give and take place. Everything doesn't run the Islamic world's manner.
 

indian_jigar

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What factors bring that up? or rather what party/scenarios have been responsible for Kerala stepping ahead compared to UP or Bihar?
Well since we are talking Kerala Muslims vs UP/Bihar Muslims in general, there will be some generalizations but the main reason seems to be that Keralite Muslims have blended into Indian mainstream much better than some North Indian Muslims. One major reason is that Kerala Muslims do think of themselves as Indian first a little more than UP/Bihar muslims. For example, when elections come around, one of the most important discussion factors among UP/Bihar is that how much reservations should be given to Muslims and what promises the Govt can make to Muslims specifically in regards to job opportunities via reservation and so on. As a person that follows Indian politics very closely, I have never come across such silly discussions among South Indian Muslims. Instead of looking for special treatment from the Govt and playing the victim card, Kerala Muslims have put their head down, focused on important things like education/jobs/family planning and are one of the most well off communities in India.

Again, sorry to my fellow Indians if anything offended you, but this is my blunt assessment. In progresssive states, Muslims (like the majority) are progressing. The opposite similarly is happening in the stalled/not so progressive states.
 

Bhairava

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For the Indian army as well, there should be a well rounded recruitment, not just about Muslims, but also recruitment from the south and eastern India rather than too much focus on north and west. There should be an open discussion on reforms in recruitment without a knee jerk reaction on shutting it down.There is no "conspiracy" keeping Muslims head count low here.
It is well meaning topic that some people feel that IA still follows the colonial era practise of favoring the "martial" races while ignoring the others and the naming of the regiments being cited as examples.

I ,for one, from South India, would NOT want to rock the boat in the name of some crappy reforms in the lines of reservation or enforcing quotas based on population percentage.

If the system is working, then don't fix it is my motto.

Unless there has been cases of explicit regionalism that has hampered the performance of the IA and threatened the security of the country there is no reason to push in any unwanted reforms. The present system, IMO, is working good and should be left alone.
 

Harry Potter

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We shouldn't forget that most Muslims in the subcontinents(80%) are dalit converts,so they are not descedants of martial races just like most Bengalis,Tamils and Telegus,Gujratis.
So they lack the fighting spirit.
Only 20% of Muslims in reality are from Martial races so 3% of IA personnel are Muslims which is a correct figure.

NOTE:Unfortunately 30% of the IA personnel are not from warrior races:tdown:
 

Bhairava

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It's called "rejection" my friend -- a new word for you to get acquainted with. How do we know that the minorities are simply being rejected for irrational reasons, thus the reason why they are so underrepresented? There is no other logical explanation.
And how do you they are not ?

Oh yes, there is a logical reasoning why Muslims are under represented as is people from many parts of India...they dont attend the recruitment drives in proper numbers.

Now dont read too much into that and show your Zaid Hamid ness here. IA is a professional organization where it is the talent and devotion that gets you rewards and not reliigon.

Ofcouse as a Pakistani, saying religion is not that important , might be mighty confusing for you. But you got to get acquainted with it.

We shouldn't forget that most Muslims in the subcontinents(80%) are dalit converts,so they are not descedants of martial races just like most Bengalis,Tamils and Telegus.
Only 20% of Muslims in reality are from Martial races so 3% of IA personnel are Muslims which is a correct figure.

NOTE:Unfortunately 70% of the IA personnel are not from warrior races:tud:
Dude martial races theory is crap. The British could have kept another name "those-that-helped-us-in-1857" races. That is to it.

But the IA in some areas still follows the Brit policy of recruiting for the purpose of espirit-de-corps and we have no problems with it.
 

Harry Potter

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Dude martial races theory is crap. The British could have kept another name "those-that-helped-us-in-1857" races. That is to it.

But the IA in some areas still follows the Brit policy of recruiting for the purpose of espirit-de-corps and we have no problems with it.
But what do you think is the reason for much larger crowds in IA recruitment rallies in Punjab and Himachal Pradesh than in TN,WB or AP.
Sorry I am not racist,but Tamils,Bengalis,Telegus,Kannaras don't have the enthusiasm of becoming a soldier.

NOTE:85% of PVC recipients are from Warrior races.
 

Bhairava

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But what do you think is the reason for much larger crowds in IA recruitment rallies in Punjab and Himachal Pradesh than in TN,WB or AP.

NOTE:85% of PVC recipients are from Warrior races.
Because the Brits created the clan based regimental system and the IA partially follows that in order not to tamper with traditions and the espirit de corps of the soldiers.

Conversely if you look at the higher management of ISRO,HAL, DRDO, Brahmos Aerospace etc most of them would be south Indians..so what, we are now the brainy race ? eh...:D
 

Tshering22

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But what do you think is the reason for much larger crowds in IA recruitment rallies in Punjab and Himachal Pradesh than in TN,WB or AP.

NOTE:85% of PVC recipients are from Warrior races.
Man cut the nonsense of warrior race.

You seem to be in love wit that idiot Macaulay of colonial times.

There's no such race as "warrior race" This was division by the Brits against the subcontinent in which they succeeded in partially separating the sikh community from the rest.

That way, we Bhutias and Gurkhas were "martial race" even before Punjabis were distinct.

Every local kingdom had warriors and martial arts training in our history.

Just like Punjabis join army in droves, south indian states like Tamils and Keralites were the first Indians to consolidate and dominate entire Southeast Asia as an Indian territory. How do you think they managed to do that?

Martial arts' great grand daddy Kalaripayattu and Seelambam were two martial arts form that originated in south India and was taken to China by Bodhidharma, a south Indian Pallava prince turned monk.

So what is a "martial race" again? :what:

Here's a hint: Martial ferocity is a state of mind. Once your mind is in it, you don't need to belong to any place to fight.

And we easterners are examples of how to hack down a "taller stronger fair-skinned ghazi" to right size and make him into a fertilizer for our terrace cultivation for rice.
 

Harry Potter

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Yes Gurkhas and Bhutias are warrior races.
You should be proud of you ancestors.
Only warrior race form South India are the Nairs.
I am not telling that non-warrior race people are not brave but martial spirit among warrior races are relatively higher than among non-warrior races.

But South Indians are better in Science and tech.
 

Subramanian

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The biggest argument i see about all this Muslim marginzalization thing is that Muslims want the Muslim by nationality thing just as it exists in many countries,especially Yugoslavia and when you do that it is generally a sign for another partition.

we should nip this in the bud.
 

SpArK

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You are giving exceptional examples to counter an argument on the common man.
Shahrukh Khan proposing to go full frontal nude does not reflect on the state of Muslims in India.
I think the debate on state of Indian Muslims need a seperate thread.

I will be putting up one in a minute.

Its an interesting debate.
 

Tshering22

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Yes Gurkhas and Bhutias are warrior races.
You should be proud of you ancestors.
Only warrior race form South India are the Nairs.
I am not telling that non-warrior race people are not brave but martial spirit among warrior races are relatively higher than among non-warrior races.

But South Indians are better in Science and tech.
There's no such thing as a "warrior race". Get over it and stop reading Macaulay too much. Every group in the country has had warriors to defend themselves.

Either please improve your knowledge or don't talk half-truths which is dangerous than 100% lies.

I am proud of being a Bhutia of course.
 

Bhairava

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Yes Gurkhas and Bhutias are warrior races.
You should be proud of you ancestors.
Only warrior race form South India are the Nairs.
I am not telling that non-warrior race people are not brave but martial spirit among warrior races are relatively higher than among non-warrior races.

But South Indians are better in Science and tech.
Hmm..whateva man. Read this for a better understanding of the British ploy Amardeep Singh: The Myth of Martial Races

Just saying...the level of violence some people in south can inflict for even petty things like caste feuds or some love marriage gone wrong can make the blood of the thickest martial race warrior go cold.
 

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