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Why Muslim headcount in Indian Army necessary?

LiberalAtheist

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serving in the army or military in general means everything else is after the nation religion,caste,etc its all gone once when you put on the camo and pick the rifle up to defend the nation.
 

SQ8

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not picking on you.. but we do have examples of mainstream artists..like A.R.Rehman.
His art of mixing traditional music with western music in a unique fashion has made him a hot cake in Hollywood/Bollywood. He was earlier a hindu. Then he converted to Islam. Reason he gave is -"Islam brought peace in his life". However u must have seen the awesome music video of Vande Mataram sang by him.
How does he have an identity crisis ?
All of them are Indian first and Muslim later.
You are giving exceptional examples to counter an argument on the common man.
Shahrukh Khan proposing to go full frontal nude does not reflect on the state of Muslims in India.
 

Syama Ayas

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Muslims in India are suffering an identity loss, they are patriotic but are constantly considered the opposite due to the existence of a Muslim Majority Pakistan next door. In my experience a Muslim Indian has to work harder than other minorities to achieve the same ..he/she feels the need to forcefully mix more into Hindu-Indian culture bracket.. and sing Vande-Mataram more vociferously... all in his/her own mind to identify. This trend may have been started by those in the UP areas.. and seems to be confined there mostly as such.
But I sense a change in that mindset at the expense of adapting an identity and adulterating their religious beliefs in an effort to be part of India. I have a members of family as politicians in India..and met Naseeruddin shah recently as well.
Both seem to potray the same image of being "More Indian than the average Indian" if the question of why India and why Pakistan is asked.
Again.. a personal opinion, not a fatwa :angel:
I would say in India itself is collection or minority groups

And every Indian minority faces this problem of need to excel better than the rest. so that the specific community doesn't face isolation or prejudice of the rest.

For ex: The Brahmins do something popular with the majority, a talk of positive stereotype of Brahmins flows in the society.

We do something unpopular, the negative steretype about Brahmins overwhelms any good work.

I don't think Muslims are the only ones with this problem.
 

faizahmad

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You are giving exceptional examples to counter an argument on the common man.
Shahrukh Khan proposing to go full frontal nude does not reflect on the state of Muslims in India.
We are happy in india more than you in your own country come to south india and see how muslims are progressing.
in few states like UP . BIHAR with a big number of muslima popolation lag behid because they do not give priority to education its not only in the case of muslims infact hindus and others's suffer with the same and finally they end up migrating to metropolitan cities
 

SQ8

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Well the thing is that most Muslims in India are Dalit converts, those who converted to Islam to escape the oppression of the caste system .

Islam did give them the freedom from the caste system but couldn't give them wealth neither could it elevate their status in the society.

Even today, these people are plagued by the same problems that they had centuries ago i.e., backbreaking poverty etc.

This results in a lack of education and the inability to meet the tough criteria for selection into the armed forces.

However, I must accept that it is not healthy for any nation if 13-15% of its population is living in such abject conditions, worse if they have no stake in the country's security, definitely not in a country as diverse as India.

We must make efforts to ensure that these people, our people, have their due stake in the country and its security.
The Issue is of acceptance, Since these people in their quest for recognition are lost.
In a way the Indian Islamic schools of thought must play their part in reconciling what is culture and what is religion.
In Pakistan this problem has been tackled partially by the rise of nationalism.. since the multiple nations in Pakistan continuously use their cultural identity to forge a nationalist one... thereby forming a barricade to the arabization forces active in the country.

India has no such surging woes of integration issues or cultural conflict... It has been able to form a certain identity centred around cultural inheritance from Hinduism and partially Sikhism in the Punjab. There is not much left of the Nawabs or Nizams to carry forward.. as it would have given figureheads to rally behind as an identity.
Still.. my visits to UP showed me attempts at integrating in progress but deterred by petty communal politics played out by both the congress and BJP allies there. This is more prevalent in the urban centre's rather than the rural areas as it seems that problems in the rural areas are common across the board and things have not changed much since Motilal nehru's times when it comes to their perception of the world.
The Urban Muslim needs to be targeted and especially those in the lower middle and above poverty line classes..
Perhaps a targeted campaign that does not explicitly target muslims but the whole section and offer it better opportunities in terms of education and exposure. Something like an outreach scholarship program .. identify the brighter ones from these communities, bring them in on their merit.. groom them and expose them to institutions like IIT, in the evening classes if preferable so as not to stir up the usual students.
It not an unsolvable problem this lesser representation issue. And one that can have greater paybacks in the future for India.

We are happy in india more than you in your own country come to south india and see how muslims are progressing.
in few states like UP . BIHAR with a big number of muslima popolation lag behid because they do not give priority to education its not only in the case of muslims infact hindus and others's suffer with the same and finally they end up migrating to metropolitan cities
We are not talking about my country, I suggest you leave it out of critical discussion or I shall leave you out of this discussion.
I have been in UP.. I have a section of my family there who are active in politics as well.
And they encounter greater communal jealousies there compared to south India due to being a majority.
Simply stated, where Muslims do start forming a majority they become the target of ire.
 

metro

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Well the thing is that most Muslims in India are Dalit converts, those who converted to Islam to escape the oppression of the caste system .
This is completely wrong. Here in UP you would find Gujjar muslims, Thakur muslims(rana) and Rajput muslims as well.
In Gujrat you would find Patel muslims, in Maharashtra you would find Naik Muslims, and im sure similar pattern would be there in the south as well.
Conversions took place in all castes and regions.
 

Luffy 500

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How can a muslim serve in the indian army. A true muslim can't utter stuff like Jay hind and vande matharam. How can a muslim fire at
their kashmiri brothers knowing full well the innocence of kashmiris. A true muslim simply can't serve in the indian military. He
has to give up Islam like the bollywood khans to get accepted into the indian army.
 
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That statement could be taken as negative.. since that means that Muslims were originally(and/or/are) regarded as third rate citizens and denied the same rights.Considered untouchables and kept in separate booths and areas. Denied dining with the white("hindu") man ..etc etc.
I dont think that is an accurate analogy.
Muslims in India are suffering an identity loss, they are patriotic but are constantly considered the opposite due to the existence of a Muslim Majority Pakistan next door. In my experience a Muslim Indian has to work harder than other minorities to achieve the same ..he/she feels the need to forcefully mix more into Hindu-Indian culture bracket.. and sing Vande-Mataram more vociferously... all in his/her own mind to identify. This trend may have been started by those in the UP areas.. and seems to be confined there mostly as such.
But I sense a change in that mindset at the expense of adapting an identity and adulterating their religious beliefs in an effort to be part of India. I have a members of family as politicians in India..and met Naseeruddin shah recently as well.
Both seem to potray the same image of being "More Indian than the average Indian" if the question of why India and why Pakistan is asked.
Again.. a personal opinion, not a fatwa :angel:
Actually, as I thought about it later, you misread my post.

My post was more about the future rather than the past.
 

xTra

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How can a muslim serve in the indian army. A true muslim can't utter stuff like Jay hind and vande matharam. How can a muslim fire at
their kashmiri brothers knowing full well the innocence of kashmiris. A true muslim simply can't serve in the indian military. He
has to give up Islam like the bollywood khans to get accepted into the indian army.
Dear there is a world beyond religion.....

Get well soon...
 
Nov 17, 2010
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How can a muslim serve in the indian army. A true muslim can't utter stuff like Jay hind and vande matharam. How can a muslim fire at
their kashmiri brothers knowing full well the innocence of kashmiris. A true muslim simply can't serve in the indian military. He
has to give up Islam like the bollywood khans to get accepted into the indian army.
You can ask so many Muslims serving in the IA. Some of those who have won awards are listed in the OP.

But if I were you, I would be really careful to not rough up a soldier in the IA.

I wouldn't like to lose all my teeth, you know. ;)
 

medulla

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How can a muslim serve in the indian army. A true muslim can't utter stuff like Jay hind and vande matharam. How can a muslim fire at
their kashmiri brothers knowing full well the innocence of kashmiris. A true muslim simply can't serve in the indian military. He
has to give up Islam like the bollywood khans to get accepted into the indian army.
We don't want such true muslims in India better they can migrate to land of pure/ BD nobody is here to stopping them.
 
Nov 17, 2010
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Is uttering vande matharam and jay hind obligatory in the indian army.
There are lots of things you could say based on your faith.

Ram Ram.

Jai Hind.

Adaab.

Although Jai Hind is the most common. The word Jai here does not mean worship, it means 'victory'.

Jai Hind actually means 'Victory/Glory to the Motherland'. Just like 'Jai Ho' meant 'Glory Be'!
 

Luffy 500

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We don't want such true muslims in India better they can migrate to land of pure/ BD nobody is here to stopping them.
Then don't label them muslim to gain points for your secularism.

There are lots of things you could say based on your faith.

Ram Ram.

Jai Hind.

Adaab.

Although Jai Hind is the most common. The word Jai here does not mean worship, it means 'victory'.

Jai Hind actually means 'Victory/Glory to the Motherland'. Just like 'Jai Ho' meant 'Glory Be'!
What about vande matharam, is it obligatory in the IA.
 

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