• Sunday, December 16, 2018

Why liberals are so quick to mock ancient India's 'test tube babies' or 'plastic surgery'

Discussion in 'Central & South Asia' started by Kashmiri Pandit, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. Kashmiri Pandit

    Kashmiri Pandit SENIOR MEMBER

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    Indians created great science well before the West. Mocking inventions by sages, philosophers and physicians only shows the ignorance of liberals.

    No, Mata Sita was not a test tube baby. Nor did the internet exist during the war of the Mahabharata . There is no evidence either of a "Pushpak Viman" crisscrossing the ancient Indian skies.



    So, let’s get that out of the way first.


    When the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi mentioned Lord Ganesha and plastic surgery in the same sentence, he wasn’t referring to the grafting of the head of an elephant onto the body of a man to create a 'hybrid' man – such a thought would be preposterous.



    However, we all know that rhinoplasty surgery is described in the Sushruta Samhita. The Samhita is a book written by the physician Sushruta in 600 BCE. Similarly, Dr Harsh Vardhan, India’s minister for science and technology, claiming the science behind the Pythagorean theorem could have originated in India should be seen in the same context.



    While talking about the Pythagoras theorem and its origin in 2500 BCE in Egypt, Dr Manjul Bhargava, the Fields Medal-winning mathematician from Princeton University, once said, “There is no statement of the theorem anywhere but there is some knowledge …” However, the Pythagorean theorem, “first occurs about 800 BCE in India in the Shulba Sutra of Baudhayana,” Dr Bhargava reportedly said.

    We also know that Panini’s (4th century BCE or earlier) grammar, The Ashtadhyayi, is the only complete, explicit and rule-bound grammar of any human language. Additionally, The Ashtadhyayi has several formal features that have direct parallels in computer science. Yaska’s (7th century BCE or earlier) Nirukta is the first serious work on etymology. Yaska was also the first scholar to treat etymology as an independent science.

    They wrote more than fables. Ancient Indian sages invented great science, math, medicine, etc.

    The fact is, Indians mastered the basic mathematical algorithm of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division at least a thousand years earlier than Europeans even began to understand it. The word "algorithm" is associated with Al Khwarizmi, who borrowed and translated basic mathematical texts from India in his book Hisab-i-Hind. We also know now that the spread of calculus to the West was through the Kerala School of Mathematics.

    Divine calculus: It was the Kerala School of Mathematics from where calculus spread to the West.

    Human imagination is boundless. This very fact about the imagination has made human life so challenging, yet fulfilling. We humans have dreamt about many things before actually building them. As the famous poet Gulzar once wrote, “Ankhon ko visa nahin lagta, sapnon ki sarhad nahin hoti” (the eyes don’t need a visa, dreams don’t have borders). This journey — from an abstract mental concept to manifest concrete reality — is extremely important.

    Similarly, human beings are capable of making random assumptions; we all make such assumptions all the time. In cross-cultural contact situations, some (or most) of these assumptions may be in conflict with each other.

    When a statement is made about Ma Sita possibly being a test tube baby, or Sanjaya from the Mahabharata using the internet to narrate the happenings on the battlefield of Kurukshetra, this conflicts sharply with the assumptions of a certain class of people – who then mock both the statements and the culture that underlie them. Such people include Marxists as well as the educated middle class — and they exhibit extreme contempt towards Indian beliefs, traditions as well as a knowledge system that is indigenous to ancient India.

    While much of this contempt is due to prejudice, ignorance of – and a bias against – India's own traditions and knowledge system is also a factor for this cutting, scornful attitude.

    Most modern biases are, among other reasons, a direct product of outsiders who described and defined India from their own lenses. With the rise of the West, to quote academic Arvind Sharma, “the West became familiar with the religions of the Americas, Africa, and Asia and main mode of transmission about these religions became one from outsider to outsider...” ("Dharma and the Academy: A Hindu Academic’s View", American Journal of Indic Studies Vol 1 Num 1).

    As a result, the "insider" views of traditional Indian academics and scholars were frequently discarded as "inferior" and not worthy of consideration.

    Additionally, years of suppression and subjugation due to foreign invasions and colonisation also rendered "insider" views almost invisible within mainstream academia.

    Lord Macauley: Colonising both ideas and views.

    The relentless onslaught of faux-secularist propaganda only added to the dismal situation.

    Philosophers Vishwa Adluri and Joydeep Bagchee, in their ground-breaking work The Nay Science: A History of German Indology (Oxford University Press, 2014) show how the discipline of Indology, as the fountainhead of the modern academic study of India, was rooted in troubling philosophical assumptions that provided inaccurate readings of the culture it was studying. The authors claim that the work of the Indologists was an outcome of Protestant debates over the scriptures. Over time, but consciously, their view states, a Protestant bias was injected and then established in the study of India.

    Similarly, according to SN Balagangadhara (What do Indians Need, A History of the Past), “… the attitude of writing a history of Indian culture and civilization, based on a meticulous "study" of the past, is not anything new. It is an old knee-jerk reaction to the Protestant critique of Indian culture and traditions.”

    Similar to the German Indologists, colonial-era evangelists in India also played a significant role in creating a negative attitude towards its ancient culture and traditions. Hindu beliefs were considered "pagan" and "heresy" and were looked down upon by the missionaries. Contact with European powers, the spread of Western thoughts and ideas, and the establishment of the English language-based education system gave rise to what is called the "Socio-Religious Reform Movement" of the 19th century.

    Many of these "reformers" were English-educated elites — they rejected many elements of the Indian cultural tradition as irrational, illogical and unscientific.

    This trend still continues. It seems like the only way you can earn a "liberal" "intellectual" tag by mocking those who are happy to think well of an ancient India which accomplished a great deal scientifically, philosopically, etc.

    The hurtful mocking of a Hindu past is often taken for granted. But it shows more about those jeering than the achievements, or the imagination, they hit out at.

    Thus, when many mock claims made about the "test tube baby", the internet, the Pushpak Viman and plastic surgery, they not only show an extra dose of contempt towards Indian culture — they also show their inability to accept the merits of the Indian knowledge tradition.

    Or simply, to be able to respect and not hurt others' sentiments.

    https://www.dailyo.in/variety/liber...ic-surgery-modern-medicine/story/1/24737.html
     
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  2. Taimoor Khan

    Taimoor Khan SENIOR MEMBER

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    Ancient India? :omghaha:
     
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  3. Maarkhoor

    Maarkhoor ELITE MEMBER

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    Noted traveler write in his book 100s of years back that people of India (that area) don't know how to cook and wear proper cloths and describe them backwards and have no sense of discipline.
     
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  4. KapitaanAli

    KapitaanAli FULL MEMBER

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    Because this nonsense belittles the actual achievements and discoveries of ancient India.

    It's always the liberals who have glorified ancient India's achievements.
     
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  5. Kashmiri Pandit

    Kashmiri Pandit SENIOR MEMBER

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    Indika
    Kitab fi usul hisab al-hind
    Kitab ul hind
    Indies

    Hind Sindh
    Indus Sindhu
    India India

    :P
     
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  6. Taimoor Khan

    Taimoor Khan SENIOR MEMBER

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    Your ancestors didnt call themselves "Indians", your colonial masters did however. :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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  7. Kashmiri Pandit

    Kashmiri Pandit SENIOR MEMBER

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    Megasthenes

    Megasthenes described about India in his book Indica. He mentioned the following things:

    • India is a quadrilateral-shaped country, bounded by the ocean on the southern and the eastern side.
    • India has many large and navigable rivers, which arise in the mountains on its northern border.
    • Gold, silver, copper and iron are abundant on Indian soil. Besides tin and other metals are used for making a number of tools, weapons, ornaments, and other articles.
    • India has very fertile plains, and irrigation is practiced widely. The main crops include rice, millet, a crop called bosporum, other cereals, pulses and other food plants. There are two crop cycles per year, since rain falls in both summer and winter. During winter, wheat is sown.
    • A law, prescribed by ancient Indian philosophers, bans slavery. The law treats everyone equally, but allows the property to be unevenly distributed.
    • The population of India is divided into 7 hereditary castes: Philosophers, farmers, herders, artisans, Overseers,Councillors and Assessors and military.
    Different author came at different times . You can't expect golden age of Gupta's to be followed by diamond age that too in the era of Turbulence in the Western territories of indus .

    We called ourselves Arya , Greeks called us indoi and British used it to call us and Pakistanis , Indian .

    Irony is India is older than Punjab , Sindh , Kashmir , Gujarat , Maharashtra , Tamil Nadu , Kerala , Kalinga , Bengal .

    But Punjab and Sindh are older than Pakistan :haha::sarcastic:

    And lol someone told me Pakistan was created by british as a buffer state so that communism doesn't spread to India and it becomes a threat to Europe .

    After all European capitalists hated socialist and fought WW2 because fascist and Nazis who they supported in their plan to invade USSR failed .
     
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  8. Taimoor Khan

    Taimoor Khan SENIOR MEMBER

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    READ that bold part and try to figure out the irony of "ancient India" non sense. :D

    Pakistan is the name we, the people of Indus, choose for ourselves, for our lands. Just like the inhabitants of Nile call themselves Egyptians which was not the case back during the time of their civilization. Its totally our prerogative.

    However the gangiyates have choosen to called themselves "Indians", carrying over the legacy and shame of colonial slavery. :D

    That "someone" who told you this non sense is an idiot of highest order.
     
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  9. Kashmiri Pandit

    Kashmiri Pandit SENIOR MEMBER

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    Just like human evolution our name had a sort of evolution .

    Hindustan
    Aryavrat
    Al-hind
    Bharat
    India

    Well we were the first to name the rivers , don't forget that . Without the name Sindhu , Greek would have made sure to name us something weird .

    :P
     
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  10. Taimoor Khan

    Taimoor Khan SENIOR MEMBER

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    Introduce yourself as "Bharthi" to so called "civilized world" and see that WTF expression on their faces. :D
     
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  11. Kashmiri Pandit

    Kashmiri Pandit SENIOR MEMBER

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    Ham sab Bhartiya hain :lol: that reminds me of my childhood

    Hum Sab Bhatatiya Hain, Hum Sab Bhatia Hain

    Apni Manzil Ek Hai,

    Ha, Ha, Ha, Ek Hai,

    Ho, ho, ho, Ek Hai.

    Hum Sab Bharatiya Hain



    Kashmir Ki Dharti Rani Hai,

    Sartaj Himalaya Hai,

    Saadiyon Se Humne Isko Apne Khoon Se Pala Hai

    Desh Ki Raksha Ki Khatir Hum Shamshir Utha Lenge,

    Hum Shamshir Utha Lenge



    Bikhre Bikhre Taare Hain Hum Lekin Jhilmil Ek Hai,

    Ha, Ha, Ha, Ek Hai

    Hum Sab Bhartiya Hai



    Mandir Gurudwaare Bhai Hain Yahan

    Aur Masjid Bhai Hai Yahan

    Please do not worry about this.

    Mullah Ki Kahin Hai Ajaan



    Ek Hee Apna Ram Hain, Ek Hi Allah Taala Hai,

    Ek Hee Allah Taala Hain, Raang Birange Deepak Hain Hum,

    I have a great time, Ha Ha Ha Ek Hai, Ho Ho Ho Ek Hai.

    Hum Sab Bhatatiya Hain, Hum Sab Bhatatiya Hain.
     
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  12. Taimoor Khan

    Taimoor Khan SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yes, I am the queen of England. :D
     
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  13. Kashmiri Pandit

    Kashmiri Pandit SENIOR MEMBER

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    :o::D
     
  14. Panzerfaust 3

    Panzerfaust 3 BANNED

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    Maybe he is!:p:
     
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  15. Kashmiri Pandit

    Kashmiri Pandit SENIOR MEMBER

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    :lol: good one :lol: