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Why is there no formal military alliance between all Arab countries?

Khan2727

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The Arab League was founded before the UN which is hard to imagine all things considered. The same Arab League could/should have evolved into a EU-like organization ages ago. Yet we all know about its shortcomings.

Which leads me to the actual question of this thread. Why do the Arabs not have an formal Arab military organization or alliance?

We all also know about Arab political disunity, poor leaders and internal rivalries. Hence Arabs being divided into 20 + different nation states.

If a strong pan-Arab military organization was formed and could work it would have prevented senseless conflicts such as the ones in Syria, Libya and Yemen which are mostly internal conflicts.

With the huge population of Arabs, their imperial past and enormous religious, cultural, linguistic etc. influence which very few can rival in the world, huge geography, enormous natural and mineral wealth, huge economy, huge potential, one of the youngest populations in the world etc., Arabs have everything to develop into a world power IMO.

Forget about reviving the past, how difficult could it be for the Arab League to develop into a EU-like organization and to create an Arab military alliance? There is already the GCC which have both.


Of course there are political differences, different governmental systems (monarchies and republics), "dictatorships" and "democracies" etc. but why can the most war-torn continent on the planet historically speaking (Europe) which is divided into 100's of different ethnic groups with different languages, religions, cultures etc. (not to mention the very different geography unlike most of the Arab world which shares most things in common in this regard) develop into an economic and political powerhouse like the EU despite all the bad blond (mass-murdering each other as recently as WW1 and WW2) yet the Arabs, which share 1000 more things in common, cannot even develop something half as effective as the EU or NATO?

Also instead of buying foreign weapons for 100's of billions each year (I am overreacting here but the numbers are huge) why not develop one Pan-Arab military industry?


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Why the pathetic state of affairs? Why not put silly political differences aside and focus on the bigger picture? No offense. I am pro-Arab, I will always be that, but even from an outsiders view it is painful to look at.
 
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hussain0216

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Because they bow to the U.S and Israel

In reality their should be a multi Muslim country military, economic alliance with proper plans in place to utilise resources and defend common interests

But their won't be because of so many of the leaders are nothing but lackeys
 

Khan2727

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Because they bow to the U.S and Israel

In reality their should be a multi Muslim country military, economic alliance with proper plans in place to utilise resources and defend common interests

But their won't be because of so many of the leaders are nothing but lackeys

I agree but Arabs are the extreme example of wasted talents and opportunities. It is actually criminal.

For starters why the hell do countries such as Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain even exist as separate entities in 2022? Why have the GCC not merged into 1 single federal state ages ago? If they had done that it would be a top 10 economy and top 15-20 population by now in the world.

Sure, once not long ago Europe was divided into 1000's of political entities, Germany and Italy alone were composed of numerous city-states, principalities, kingdoms, duchies whatever but yet they correctly united and put their differences aside. Often that occurred when 1 party among them overruled the others.

Or even a better example would be South Asia. If this policy had continued what is today Pakistan would be divided into 30 + entities and India into 1000's.

To me it seems (when reading about contemporary history) that the West (being a direct neighbor of the Arab world) is doing everything in their power in order to create divisions within the Muslim world (we are not helping ourselves in this regard by creating themselves as well) and the rulers/dictators/whatever you want to call them, are also working alongside this policy in order to keep their thrones intact.

Unity is strength.
 

Khan2727

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It would be interesting to hear some Arab users and their thoughts about this topic.

What is the cause of this lack of integration (large-scale) and what can be done in order to improve things to a level where they should be?
 

Khan2727

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Another key question is, do Arabs even want Arab integration? Objective criteria post WW1 and post-Arab Spring should only give rise to greater integration. With the direction that the world is moving towards (multipolar), an united Arab world would be a strong entity on all fronts and probably more effective than the current very fragmented one.
You guys forget who it was that created these states and put their leaders in power....

While many of the Arab states (nation states that is) are new (name a single current Muslim-majority nation that is older than 500 years in its current form) most of them are not Western constructs.

KSA is the result of internal conquest of one dynasty (House of Saud) uniting the various historical regions that make up modern-day KSA. For instance it was never a Western colony. Oman is an old nation state that had large colonial possessions on 2 continents not that long ago (Gwadar is an example of this as is Zanzibar).

Iraq forms the majority of historical ancient Mesopotamia and while the nation state is a modern construct it has legitimate historical continuation. As is the case with Syria.

I can only think of Jordan (best example of a Western construct in its current form), Qatar (even though the current ruling dynasty ruled the lands before the European arrival), Lebanon (created by the French due to the large Christian community but they could argue that Lebanon is some sort of continuation of the Phoenicians) as actual modern day constructs. Bahrain should have been a part of the Eastern Province of KSA due to the shared ancient Dilmun past (contemporary of IVC). UAE was ruled by the same local dynasties before the arrival of the Brits and the creation of the UAE was mostly done by its leaders (creating a federation) and the UAE was always very sparsely populated - to this day some 1 million locals live in UAE - a testament to its small role in Arabian history. Kuwait was ruled by the local rulers prior to the Brits as well but is a relatively new creation (last 300 years). Yemen is an ancient historical region of Arabia so no Western creation either. Similarly with Palestine.

Egypt and Sudan, two distinct ancient regions in the Arab world. Libya similarly. Tunisia (ancient Carthage) as well. Morocco similarly, old entity. Mauritania is a extension of Morocco (historically speaking) and a mixture of Arab, Berber and local Black African tribes. Distinct entity as well.

So outright Western creations with Western-appointed leaders, I can honestly only think about Lebanon and Jordan. Algeria, if harsh, you could argue is a post 1960-creation in its current form but even they had a distinct entity prior to the French and Ottomans and they won their freedom by paying a huge price (Algerian war of independence) so that alone justifies their existence far more than most nation states of today in the world.

So I think that this simplistic argument (creation of artificial states) that I have seen a lot online is largely false when you look at history. However when it comes to influence of the leaderships and Western tentacles within them, it is hard to argue against such a point and therein lies the problem IMO. Leaders that don't reflect the populaces and whose only priority is to stay in power rather than creating regional beneficiary visions. For starters, I don't believe for a second that locals of the GCC would not love to live in 1 single powerful federal state with regional autonomy if needed and a shared currency, passport, parliament, military etc.
 
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WotTen

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Every tinpot dictator wants his little empire to himself.

Also, culturally, the Arabs are like Pakistanis and most Muslim countries. Not a single world class university or research institution and anything complicated is done by foreigners. ZERO educational infrastructure to compete in the 21st century. Instead they put their faith in prophecies and astrology.

Even if all the Arab countries combined militarily, Israel alone could destroy them. Every military technology from the West has to be approved by Israel before the Arabs get them.
 

Khan2727

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Every tinpot dictator wants his little empire to himself.

Also, culturally, the Arabs are like Pakistanis and most Muslim countries. Not a single world class university or research institution and anything complicated is done by foreigners. Zero educational infrastructure to compete in the 21st century. Instead they put their faith in prophecies and astrology.

Agree with the first part.

Disagree with the second part (education), at least when it comes to KSA and the GCC. Huge strides have been made.

See this thread:


Of course that alone is not comparable to the West (lol) but at least active strides are made to decrease the gap.

But yes, the general scientific output/innovation/educational levels in the Muslim world are very much lacking and quite frankly in a pathetic state compared to the past and potential.
 
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WotTen

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Dig deeper and see what a joke it is:


At TKS, there are more than 1,600 students from 76 nationalities and 359 teachers representing 52 nationalities. The largest representation amongst students comes from Saudi Arabia, our host country, at 28% of the overall population

That's about 450 students in a country of 34 million. I didn't even bother seeing which subjects those 450 students are majoring in because...

P.S. The Saudi government has been paying for decades for their citizens to study abroad, all expenses paid plus spending allowance. What wonders have these students brought back to their home country?
 

R2D2

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Multilateral Alliance for a Free Trade Agreement (MAFTA)

Formation of an economic block MAFTA composed of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, China, UAE, Central Asian Republics, Afghanistan, Brazil, Indonesia, Malaysia, Venezuela, Japan, Cuba, Bolivia, Ireland, Brunei Dar as Salam, Bangladesh, Sudan, Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and Palestinian Authority for free trade without or at reduced customs duties.

A MAFTA secretariat should be formed in Pakistan to coordinate all the activities.

Pakistan can benefit from adaptation of the advanced technologies from brotherly countries.

Afghanistan can benefit from export of its fruits and import of goods from the countries in the bloc.

Malaysia and Indonesia are rich in Palm oil and can meet the needs of member countries. Malaysia is also ahead in technology.

Pakistan is a big exporter of Textile and Leather goods and has a growing Defense Industry.

Brazil is an important member of BRICS group and the biggest exporter in South America.

Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela are major exporters of crude oil. Russia is also a big exporter of gas and can supply Pakistan through its purchased gas from Turkmenistan.

Japan is the technological giant of the East and is already helping Pakistan in various projects. Its economy is in recession and would benefit from exports to the bloc.

Republic of Ireland is known for its independent foreign policy and business friendly environment on the European mainland.

The Palestinians in the Palestinian Authority and Diaspora are the most educated people among the Arabs, they can provide the export of human and intellectual capital composed of Doctors, Engineers, Teachers to areas selected for development like Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sudan etc.

Turkey is leading the Muslim world in technology, foreign investment and outreach.

Food security is one of the biggest issues and by cooperating with South American countries agriculture technology and commodities can be imported and corporate farms can also be established there.
 

Khan2727

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Dig deeper and see what a joke it is:


At TKS, there are more than 1,600 students from 76 nationalities and 359 teachers representing 52 nationalities. The largest representation amongst students comes from Saudi Arabia, our host country, at 28% of the overall population

I didn't even bother seeing which subjects those 28% are majoring in.

With a huge diaspora within KSA those numbers are not really that "shocking". 500 out of 1600 students is not a bad number in a university where English is the only medium of communication. It is a purely technical university if I am not wrong.

You would be surprised how international leading universities in the West are.

Anyway take the King Saud University as well (a university with relatively high rankings internationally) and the vast majority are locals.


The point made here is that KSA/GCC has invested a lot of money into education and they have seen the fruits of that. However it is still not enough but you have to start somewhere.




News from today:

Saudi team wins 6 medals at Balkan Olympiad​

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SPA
July 03, 2022 00:28

  • The Saudi nominees are selected by the King Abdulaziz and his Companions Foundation for Giftedness and Creativity in cooperation with the Ministry of Education
RIYADH: Saudi students have won six medals — a gold, four silvers and a bronze — at the 26th Junior Balkan Mathematical Olympiad in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
This year’s JBMO was held in the capital Sarajevo from June 28 to July 3, with the participation of 106 contestants representing 18 countries.
So far, the Saudi team has collected a total of 53 medals (eight gold, 17 silver and 22 bronze) through its 10 appearances since the start of the competition.
The Saudi nominees are selected by the King Abdulaziz and his Companions Foundation for Giftedness and Creativity in cooperation with the Ministry of Education.
Last year the Saudi team secured six international awards: Three golds, a silver, and two bronzes in the contest.


Clearly huge strides have been made in recent years, I think that this is undeniable.

Anyway we are off-topic.
 
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lightning F57

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most of them are not Western constructs.
pre WW2 the allies divided up the ottoman empire. They created many countries that we see today which never existed before....kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, qatar, syria, iraq. House of Saud come to power through the British, prior to that most of that territory was known as Arabia.

The gulf arab countries use money to buy protection from the west, through hosting bases and large weapons purchases. They have small populations thats why iraq in the past under Saddam scared them now it's the mullahs in Iran.

Iraq is fractured and has heavy US influence now, Syria is a broken state has bad relations with most of the middle eastern countries, egypt has a US backed dictator at the helm who will do what his told. You can see the internal strife and division in Pak its a microcosm of what is happening across the muslim world. This is why unity is spiritual through religion and token organisations like the OIC, arab league, GCC. None of these have bite or real muscle they can take on weak foes but a decently armed country they would call a friend "uncle sam" to fo their bidding.

I forget which western leader it was that said they would never let the muslims unite under a single banner again. I'm paraphrasing as cant remember the exact quote. It was either from 20th century or earlier.
 

313ghazi

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Silly question to ask. The only real global threat to anyone is the USA and they're protecting the Gulf Arabs as long as they can control the oil.
 

Hydration

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Every tinpot dictator wants his little empire to himself.

Also, culturally, the Arabs are like Pakistanis and most Muslim countries. Not a single world class university or research institution and anything complicated is done by foreigners. ZERO educational infrastructure to compete in the 21st century. Instead they put their faith in prophecies and astrology.

Even if all the Arab countries combined militarily, Israel alone could destroy them. Every military technology from the West has to be approved by Israel before the Arabs get them.
What is the Azhar to you? IS it another mosque? Or the countless high level colleges in Egypt?
 

Hydration

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It would be interesting to hear some Arab users and their thoughts about this topic.

What is the cause of this lack of integration (large-scale) and what can be done in order to improve things to a level where they should be?
No need to do something that already exists
 

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