• Saturday, July 4, 2020

Why India has lost more wars than Pakistan

Discussion in 'Military History & Tactics' started by ., Jan 28, 2017.

  1. .

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    [​IMG]

    The results were somewhat like this,I will try my best to be neutral so no bias!
    PS:Let's not forget that India has always had a numerical superiority over Pakistan and technologically India wasn't weaker in all the wars either,Some indians resort to the logic of "Technological superiority" to hide their failures.
    1965 At the time both India and Pakistan fielded the best main battle tanks from the British and Americans.
    • The first war 1947 Pakistan gains 1/3rd of Kashmir.
    • Second war 1965,India gains more territory as compared to Pakistan ,Pakistan loses more tanks in the battle-field due to incursion into deep Indian territories and lack of tactical superiority ,Pakistan becomes victorious in the largest tank battle since WW2 effectively driving the invading Indian forces away, Primary objective of Pakistan fails to gain all of Kashmir from India,Primarily objective of India fails to gain Lahore from Pakistan ends up a stalemate.
    • India’s 3rd war Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia ,The Chinese were agitated because of the Tibetan uprising when India gave asylum to dalai lama ,other reasons were borderline disputes as from the name it suggests “Aksai chin” was a part of ancient china.
    • 4th war Independence of bangladesh,Pakistan faces defeat due to lack of political stability in East Pakistan,The defeat was the fault of our own people that lived under the shadows of dictators, It was a huge militarily predicament of defending a territory separated by 2000 Kilometers of Indian territory,The USSR tried to induce a civil war with the help of Indian intelligence and KGB and it succeeded in doing so because by 1970 USSR and China were having major disputes on various issues and China was moving into the Non-aligned policy with the help of Pakistan acting as a mediator to open ties with Nixon .
    [​IMG]
    Its own record that Sam Mankeshaw ,The CIC of indian army at the time in an interview said that they prepared the invasion months prior to the events leading up.

    Sam Manekshaw knew that India had overwhelming superiority.
    1. Numerical Superiority
    2. Geographical(Defending Pakistani forces on Eastern front were surrounded).
    3. tactical
    4. Political(The situation turned into civil war and all sides massacring one another).
    • 5th war also known as Kargil war: Kargil - Wikipedia..India had militarized the peaks surrounding the border with Pakistan in 1970s this agitated the Pakistani military to launch a well planed incursion into the heights not until 1999 because political situation wasn’t assisting the military to launch an offensive so they went ahead with it not until 1999 ,Even so the Pakistan air force was literary grounded in 1999 because of sanctions after the atomic tests restricted the air force ,Its the major reason why it didn’t take part in the conflict even though it had a clear Historical supremacy over its adversary..
    • The cause of the conflict was the infiltration of Pakistani soldiers and Kashmiri militants into positions on the Indian side of the Line of control . Pakistani troops did not cross the International Borders at any stage of the conflict. Pakistan’s objective was to drive Indians out of Siachin and highlight Kashmir Issue in the eyes of the world.
    [​IMG]
    • In the spring of 1999, on the orders of Pakistan Army Chief, General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistani soldiers climbed up the snow-bound passes and occupied some high positions, including Tiger Hill and Point 5353, in the vacant area and infiltrated almost 10 km into the Indian territory ( still short of International Border). These positions overlooked Indian National Highway (NH 1 D). Pakistan was in a strong position to cut off supplies and winter dumping and thus force Indians to withdraw from the Siachin Glacier which they militarized since 1970s.
    [​IMG]
    The Indians were caught off guard. They tried to evict the positions but failed. They used a large number of Artillery guns and also used their air force against Pakistani positions. Two Indian aircraft were also shot down by Stinger Missiles. Indian aircraft violated Pakistani air space but they never admitted it openly. One of their pilots, Flight Lieutenant Nachiketa, who ejected after his aircraft was shot down, was captured from the Pakistani territory. Indians ultimately complained to the International community and finally on pressure by the USA, Pakistani Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, ordered the withdrawal of troops. Most of the casualties of “Operation Koh-e-Paima” were inflicted during the withdrawal. In General Musharraf’s words “A military victory was converted into a political defeat.”

    Point 5353 is the highest point in Drass-Kargil area. Its recapture was the most important objective for Indian forces during the Kargil Conflict. But they could never come close to it.

    Point 5353 is still occupied by Pakistan, even 14 years after the battle. Pakistan has since fortified it with reinforced bunkers. After the end of the war, Indians tried many times to capture Point 5353 but all their efforts failed.

    Ultimately Pakistanis withdrew and India regains possession of Kargil with no Territorial changes,Hence it was another stalemate.

    The final point between Pakistan and India stands as .

    Wars won by Pakistan : 1 (1947) :Stalemate (2) 1965 and 1999. lost 1 1971

    Wars won by India :1 1971( Kargil according to many Indians was a victory but actually it was a stalemate because no territorial changes on either side,With heavy losses on Indian side)..

    Wars lost by India 2.. 1947 and Chinese Invasion.

    Indian Stalemate: 1 1965(They failed to secure their objectives by opening a second front in Pakistani Punjab and secure their primary objectives)

    I hope we Pakistanis now realize that how much political stability matters in wars,had we not have constant coups leading up to 1971 ,Its possible Bangladesh would've kept together instead of stabbing ourselves in the back..
    Indhira gandhi Would've automatically had a heart attack.:rofl:
     
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  2. .

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    Common little indians , i haven't seen you beak
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Hassan Guy

    Hassan Guy SENIOR MEMBER

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    This thread will not end well.
     
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  4. Tipu7

    Tipu7 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Wars are not football matches where winning team is decided by number of goals they score.
    It's complex geopolitical game. Those who are too naive to understand them, they just start distributing these victory & failure tickets.

    India propaganda machine is very strong compared to Pakistan. They can even declare their lost battles as their victories. If level of propaganda continued on Indian side then probably after a decade they will declare 1962 as their victory, just like now they preach that "India has never invaded any country" or "Pakistan has lost all its wars" or "3 Million rapes, 3 Million killings of Bengali people by Pakistan" or most power ful one "93,000 soldiers as Prisoners of war"

    Pakistani propaganda is also there, but it's much limited compared to Indian one.

    :coffee:
     
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  5. .

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    I actually created this thread due the same reasons that many of them declare battles from which they gained nothing like kargil (won).
     
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  6. Jugger

    Jugger SENIOR MEMBER

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    What is the purpose of this thread? Is it only for a feel good factor?
     
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  7. .

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    Its called educating :coffee:

    It isn't propaganda when its patriotism,Whereas the 1971 genocide is politicized by the Indians.
     
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  8. Hassan Guy

    Hassan Guy SENIOR MEMBER

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    1971 is sort of cheating.

    Overseas territories/colonies don't count.
     
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  9. TooRave

    TooRave BANNED

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    all Indo Pakistan war was regarding Kashmir..We can see how it has turned out for Pakistan.

    About 1947,
    Kashmir was not a part of India.Hari Singh referred to remain independent and did not want to join either the India or Pakistan.Taking advantage of the situation, the Gilgit Scouts staged a rebellion in the Northern Areas under British command. After the Partition of India the Gilgit Scouts joined with the forces of the Pakistan Army in attacks against forces of the erstwhile princely state during the First Kashmir War. As a result, this region became effectively a part of Pakistan (Azad Kashmir).Then India saved the other part of Kashmir from being eaten by Pakistanis..Fact is simple if you get..

    For other wars,
    Your every desperate attempt to snatch Indian Kashmir was destroyed & you had to return with face of humiliation..
     
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  10. Alpha BeeTee

    Alpha BeeTee FULL MEMBER

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    At the end of the day,the way you see all these wars depends on which side of the border you're seeing these from.

    No amount of logic can make you accept the narrative of the other side.
     
  11. Shaji Pappan

    Shaji Pappan FULL MEMBER

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    Let us discuss the results..(according to your post)
    1. Pakistan divided to two halves or Pakistan lost half of its territory..
    2. India lost 1/3 of Kashmir.. That is Pakistan occupied part of Kashmir..

    No need of your education man.. We are also saying the same things.. That is why we are claiming Pak administrated Kashmir is ours..
     
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  12. Hassan Guy

    Hassan Guy SENIOR MEMBER

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    Quintessentially incorrect.

    Bangladesh is 1/6th the size of Pakistan and

     
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  13. Alpha BeeTee

    Alpha BeeTee FULL MEMBER

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    Honestly no side has achieved a decisive victory over the other except 1971 which was more of a Pakistan's loss due to civil war than India's victory.

    As a whole,both sides have always given each other a bloody nose.

    But remember that we're not talking about two evenly matched rivals.
    Pakistan has always been heavily outnumbered everywhere.
    So it is safe to assume that Pakistan always did better than it was excepted to do while India almost never fought/delivered upto its pottential.
     
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  14. Fireurimagination

    Fireurimagination SENIOR MEMBER

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    Going by that logic you lost 2/3rd Kashmir, add to that Hyderabad, Junagadh, Siachen and God knows what not all :rofl:
     
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  15. .

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    Let me stretch your logic further ,Pakistan also lost new delhi :rofl:
    :eek:
     
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