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Why California Failed High-Speed Rail

beijingwalker

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It's $105B

Well for one thing how many million dollar properties did the Chinese government have to buy to put in the track? Remember one end is in LA and the other is in San Francisco.

Even empty farmland in California is $5000-$12000 an acre (4046 sq meters). Those for housing can easily be $1M/acre...and that doesn't include the building on it.

They would certainly have to try and buyout land in mostly undesirable places away from heavily populated areas. This likely is going to make the route not very efficient.
Do you mean it's not only for HSR, basically there's no hope for any new public infrastructure development at all in US future?
 

Hamartia Antidote

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After stating infighting and political struggle between local politicians, HSR failure is just one aspect of US incompetence.It's the people who suffer.

The comment section gathered 4,497 Comments so far in one day, people do want it.

No, again you didn't even watch the video. Please listen to the part I highlighted in post #3.

It says the people of California voted for HSR rail on the condition that fares (not taxes or government subsidies) would be sufficient to cover ALL the operational costs. That was the only way they would agree to it.

It then stated in the video that this is not going to happen as the current estimation of usage is well below the initial estimate of usage and wont cover the costs.
 

Hamartia Antidote

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Do you mean it's not only for HSR, basically there's no hope for any new public infrastructure development at all in US future?

The problem is the US isn't full of poor villagers who can be paid almost nothing to be kicked off the land they have called home. This is a developed country with modern homes all over the place. You just can't grab somebody's $700,000 home and pay them only $1 or send them off to some new high-rise in the middle of nowhere and claim it is also worth $700,000.

Much of the HSR project is using old railway line sites that aren't even straight.
 
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beijingwalker

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No, again you didn't even watch the video. Please listen to the part I highlighted in post #3.

It says the people of California voted for HSR rail on the condition that fares (not taxes or government subsidies) would be sufficient to cover ALL the operational costs. That was the only way they would agree to it.

It then stated in the video that this is not going to happen as the current estimation of usage is well below the initial estimate of usage and wont cover the costs.
I did watch the video, the video listed multiple reasons for California's HSR project failure, not just one factor as you are trying to highlight, but these problems California HSR project faced will also be faced by other future public infrastructure projects, how are you going to fix them?

The problem is the US isn't full of poor villagers who can be paid almost nothing to be kicked off the land they have called home. This is a developed country with modern homes all over the place. You just can't grab somebody's $700,000 home and pay them only $1.
China also has this problem, China even pays more, but if they still don't agree, then get around them

A nail house in Chinese Guangdong province holds their ground for 17 years, refuses to move unless the government pays them 300 million Yuan ($47 million)
 

WotTen

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I'm a pro rail myself but I would love to know how much of China rail network has been built based on necessity and lack of ability to manufacturing airliners.

Up to a certain distance, most people prefer HSR to planes. The fact that trains usually take to straight from and to the.central business district (CBD or downtown) saves up to two hours on a trip. That makes HSR often faster than flying. Plus, of course, trains are far more comfortable and you can walk around during the trip and have snacks and meals around a table.
 

beijingwalker

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Up to a certain distance, most people prefer HSR to planes. The fact that trains usually take to straight from and to the.central business district (CBD or downtown) saves up to two hours on a trip. That makes HSR often faster than flying. Plus, of course, trains are far more comfortable and you can walk around during the trip and have snacks and meals around a table.
Don't forget beautiful scenery during the trip

Himalaya bullet train in Tibet
 

WotTen

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Don't forget beautiful scenery during the trip

Himalaya bullet train in Tibet

Yes, very much so. The variety of scenery you can see on a train is worlds apart from anything you see on a plane, although I do love seeing the curvature of the Earth's globe from a plane window.

Plus, you can see it as a family sitting around a dining table in the train's dining car. When I was a kid, our family toured Europe on a Eurail Pass. It was great,

Speaking of California, Amtrak used to have a service from San Diego to Vancouver, Canada which went along the Pacific Coast in some parts. Maybe they still do. It was amazing, especially at night with a bright moon, and especially once you got past Portland, Oregon.
 

beijingwalker

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Yes, very much so. The variety of scenery you can see on a train is worlds apart from anything you see on a plane, although I do love seeing the curvature of the Earth's globe from a plane window.

Plus, you can see it as a family sitting around a dining table in the train's dining car.

Speaking of California, Amtrak used to have a service from San Diego to Vancouver, Canada which went along the Pacific Coast in some parts. Maybe they still do. It was amazing, especially at night with a bright moon, and especially once you got past Portland, Oregon.
I used to take New Jersey Transit everyday from New York city to my New Jersey home, New Jersey suburbs and small towns along the route are beautiful.
 

WotTen

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I used to take New Jersey Transit everyday from New York city to my New Jersey home, New Jersey suburbs and small towns along the route are beautiful.

Yes, it's gorgeous countryside. I used to live in Pennington, NJ, close to the PA border. Actually saw deer in our backyard.
 

Chat SAMOSA

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To make a political argument against HSR in USA is just lying.
The same type of dirty factors that haven't banned even assault rifles from civilians even after massive shootouts at school malls and city centres, is at play.

The only real argument I can buy is that airlines are cheap enough and aplenty. Where there's need and volumes justify it will be impossible for us to keep HSR out - like the acela.
 

beijingwalker

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To make a political argument against HSR in USA is just lying.
The same type of dirty factors that haven't banned even assault rifles from civilians even after massive shootouts at school malls and city centres, is at play.

The only real argument I can buy is that airlines are cheap enough and aplenty. Where there's need and volumes justify it will be impossible for us to keep HSR out - like the acela.
You don't know how much Americans love HSR after they tried them in China, but unfortunately Americans inside America never got a chance to try.
 

Chat SAMOSA

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You don't know how much Americans love HSR after they tried them in China, but unfortunately Americans inside America never got a chance to try.
Once the Brady and Wally world road trip generations deprecate and if green hydrogen doesn't scale up then HSRs will materialize
 

Cancerous Tumor

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Up to a certain distance, most people prefer HSR to planes. The fact that trains usually take to straight from and to the.central business district (CBD or downtown) saves up to two hours on a trip. That makes HSR often faster than flying. Plus, of course, trains are far more comfortable and you can walk around during the trip and have snacks and meals around a table.
11-Figure6-1.png


I mean if we had China and India as heavy competitors in building airliners we could have much more efficient airplane designs and engines today.

comparing these two models could be wrong based on :
China's technological problems.
Different type of lands which you build rail over it.
Demand issues (population)
 

FuturePAF

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Why construction of high speed railway proves to be so expensive, hundreds of billion of dollars, in China they only cost a fraction of that sum.
Most of where the Chinese HSR is build is flat terrain; in two major areas in California the terrain requires tunnels. Politics and property rights also prevents California from building without proper accommodation for all parties involved. This can be a long process but downstream it leads to less societal issues, although more and more of California’s restrictions seem to be a lot of NIMBYism.
 

WotTen

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Politics and property rights also prevents California from building without proper accommodation for all parties involved.

The US, like all countries, has eminent domain laws. The government can confiscate property after reasonable negotiations and paying market rates.
 

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