• Tuesday, December 10, 2019

Why are we so backward?

Discussion in 'Members Club' started by Pakistani_Athiest, Apr 27, 2010.

  1. Pakistani_Athiest

    Pakistani_Athiest FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    414
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Ratings:
    +0 / 255 / -0
    Why is Pakistan lagging behind THIS bad, despite having many hardworking and smart citizens?

    I say 'obsession with religion'.

    Check out the threads. Every thread from Stephen Hawking's comment of extra-terrestrial to cricket to even movies translates to a discussion on religion.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 16
  2. AchtungSpitfire

    AchtungSpitfire BANNED

    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Ratings:
    +0 / 59 / -0
    You answered your own question. Some people really think 7th Century Arabia is the pinnacle of human civilization and will kill, maim and intimidate to achieve that moronic goal.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  3. VrSoLdIeRs

    VrSoLdIeRs FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    569
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Ratings:
    +0 / 123 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    religion is the force that has driven muslims in the past as well, so you cant blame it, plus muslims take religion very seriously (even if they aint quite practicing muslims themselves)

    infact the reason for us lagging is being away from religion, religion teaches you all from building society to everyday manners... if we simply follow our religion, there wont be any corruption, no lawlessness and other things like that!!!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 17
  4. third eye

    third eye ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    18,216
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Ratings:
    +25 / 24,330 / -11
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    I cannot say why if at all Pak is lagging behind.

    But one can say with certainty there is an obsession with religion in Pak. It was not like this when the nation was formed or till a decade or two ago. Zia institutionalized religion into everything for his gains and the nation is paying the price even today.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  5. Lilo

    Lilo FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    200
    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Ratings:
    +0 / 56 / -0
    Pakistan needs its own version of Kemal Ataturk.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  6. Martian2

    Martian2 SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,812
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Ratings:
    +13 / 17,309 / -50
    I'm not sure what you mean by "lagging." According to the IMF, the standard of living for a Pakistani citizen (e.g. $1,067 U.S. dollars) is basically the same as those for an Indian citizen (e.g. $1,124).

    List of countries by future GDP (nominal) per capita estimates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "India 1,124
    Mauritania 1,118
    Côte d'Ivoire 1,073
    Pakistan 1,067"
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
  7. Omar1984

    Omar1984 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    12,296
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Ratings:
    +0 / 12,621 / -0
    Pakistan already had its own version of Kemal Ataturk, but he passed away a year after the nation was born. His name was Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Besides in some of his speeches he wanted an Islamic way of running the country like his last speech he made he said he wanted Islamic banking for Pakistan so he was not totally secular like Ataturk was.


    And with Pakistanis, we can never place Religion out of our lives. Even the Christian/Hindu/Sikh Pakistanis care about their Religions.

    Pakistanis cant be like Turks, Americans, British, Chinese, Indians, Nigerians, etc.. we are a people of our own. Theres around 180 million Pakistanis all over the world we dont want to mimic anyone. Even if you go to the west you see us wearing our traditional clothes, eating our traditional food, going to our Mosques. We are very proud of who we are.


    As for how religious Pakistanis are. You will find all kinds of Pakistanis. Liberal, Traditional, Conservative, Moderates, Agnostics, Deeply Religious, those who put Religion before culture, those who put Culture before Religion, etcc but you wont find many athiests among us even the most Liberal westernized agnostic Pakistanis have some belief in the Creator and the next life.


    Those who are athiests and want to turn Pakistanis into athiests will have no luck in this forum or any Pakistani forum or gathering.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 22
  8. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

    Messages:
    17,506
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Ratings:
    +161 / 45,598 / -4
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    Hi,

    You are backwards because your parents don't set you free to grow up to be men. They don't treat you like men and womenthat you are ---.

    You always grow up under the shadow of your parents---a tree that grows up under the shadows of a larger tree will never grow as tall as it parent---.

    Our parents have been criminally neglegent of developing our persona---not making us grow up as free thinkers---not making us grow up as adults---any of you boyz a man of his own destiny without the supervision of their parents---I doubt it---.

    Yes---pakistanis cannot be like americans, turks, british or the chinese---those people have a back bone---they have dignity and identity---they have courage and honor---they cherish and honor their responsibility---pakistanis on the other hand are clueless and totally at a loss of what these words and charadcters mean.

    Religion is just an excuse---talking of religion---what religion do pakistanis really have---.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 14
  9. Pakistani_Athiest

    Pakistani_Athiest FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    414
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Ratings:
    +0 / 255 / -0
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  10. Pakistani_Athiest

    Pakistani_Athiest FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    414
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Ratings:
    +0 / 255 / -0
    Naa bro. I don't want to turn you into an atheist. I want to turn you into secular. Religion is a highly personal thing. Why do we drag it into EVERY SINGLE aspect of our life?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
  11. Pakistani_Athiest

    Pakistani_Athiest FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    414
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Ratings:
    +0 / 255 / -0
    Here is why:

    Consider a presenter who presents four facts : a,b,c and d.

    The rationalist immediately starts analyzing these facts on individual merits. He analyses them and then comes to a conclusion with 'lesser' bias.

    But a religious fanatic validates EACH of these facts against his religion. Does a go against my religion? If not, does b go against my religion? .... does d go against my religion? If the answer to ANY of these questions is 'maybe', that's it! Your focus is NO longer on analyzing the merit of those statements scientifically. Rather, you try to FIRST resolve that specific fact w.r.t your religion.

    Even a simple question such as 'Can aliens exist?', religious people are not able to think independently. First, there is a STRONG check against religion. Some people say 'It's okay as per Islam'. Some others say 'It's against Islam'. With this kinda eff-ed up attitude, how can we progress?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 5
  12. Pakistani_Athiest

    Pakistani_Athiest FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    414
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Ratings:
    +0 / 255 / -0
    Seriously? You think we are 'away from religion'? Are you serious? Every damn topic we discuss here is about religion. And you still think that we can do better?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  13. Pakistani_Athiest

    Pakistani_Athiest FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    414
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Ratings:
    +0 / 255 / -0
    Qaid-e-Azam was very much like Mustafa Kemal. He wanted Pakistan to be a Secular republic. Mustafa Kemal lead Turkey into democracy and secularist. Yes, we need ANOTHER Qaid-e-Azam or Mustafa Kemal!

    The young generation of today, they drive me crazy. Most of the people from the 70s generation are relatively more secular and mature. But kids these days are EXTREMELY dogmatic.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  14. notsuperstitious

    notsuperstitious ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    10,473
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Ratings:
    +4 / 20,273 / -21
    Just a thought, Islam represented change once!
     
  15. Skeptic

    Skeptic SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,146
    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Ratings:
    +0 / 975 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    I think, sometimes, the Atheists and skeptics (like me and you) who are more obsessed with religion than what we accuse others of. I have realized that this is a negative way of going about in debate. If you accuse others of wearing their beliefs on their sleeves, you are wearing you lack of belief in a similar way.

    I think there are several other overbearing personal traits which people from sub-continent are lacking(As India / Bangladesh / Sri Lanka have been lagging as well, when compared to rest of the world). It might be a bitter pill to swallow for many, we overemphasize on what we perceive is our culture and values, which include some good and some not so healthy traditions. We have left behind what forms the backbone of our economy, in the lure of management and IT / CS degrees. How many high aptitude individuals opt for a course in agriculture for example??

    One simple area would be womens employment. I know for sure it would come out to be lowest in the world, which simply translates to almost 40% of our citizens baing non-productive and just managing homes. Another example would be. if a study is conducted on the age when you get your first salary. We have this philsophy - First we need to study and then work, whereas if we start working early it is much easier to identify the interest areas.

    In studies we have what is termed as "Herd Mentality". MBA is the in thing now, BE in IT and CS was earlier. Student does not ever know what will he be facing in the real world and real work place.

    There are many such reasons and as worded very articulately by MK, we are constantly living in shadow of our parents. Protected unnecessarily, but somehow that is what we perceive our culture to be about.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 5