• Saturday, November 23, 2019

Why Arabs Lose Wars

Discussion in 'Arab Defence Forum' started by Falcon29, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. Peaceful Civilian

    Peaceful Civilian ELITE MEMBER

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    Arab lost wars due to inferior technology... You can't only depend on Allah for win, Technology matters...
     
  2. Syrian Lion

    Syrian Lion SENIOR MEMBER

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    Black September when king hussien begged the west to help save him... yeah Jordan didn't do crap... you need to check your history, because it is known how bad king hussien started calling on the west to help save him... plus don't forget Syria has always been sanctioned, and never got any western support, Syria was independent... and again about Golan, I have already stated how Syria lost it, it was because the southern front stopped and left all the pressure on Syria, and you must be naive to think that Israel fought its own wars...
    foreign mercs are only the F$A terrorists, and if you referring to Iraqis fighting in Syria, is that because they have lived there and they have to defend themselves from cannibalism F$A terrorists... only Damascus is secured? Homs is 95% cleaned from those scum terrorists, in addition to Hama... now go mind your own business...
     
  3. Syrian Lion

    Syrian Lion SENIOR MEMBER

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    what do you mean?

    well, Egypt did get Sinai back because there were two front going on... am I right? When Saddat decided to stop, and forgot about the other front, he basically just let the Syrians alone.. even the plan was not to take all of Sinai, but Saddat shouldn't have forgotten the other front that helped him take Sinai back... what do you think?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  4. A.P. Richelieu

    A.P. Richelieu SENIOR MEMBER

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    This is how I perceive it:
    * Israel wants a a real peace agreement which means no missiles / attacks from Palestinian side now, or after 50
    years. For this everyone, possibly also Iran must agree.
    Currently Iran/Hamas does not recognize Israels right to exist, so real peace does not seem possible.
    Hamas needs to allow a democratic election. If Palestinians want peace, they need to elect
    either a reformed Hamas, or a new Palestinian leadership focusing on peace, and not the destruction of Israel.
    Palestinian extremists clearly state the end game is the ethnic cleansing of Jews is inevitable.
    * Palestinians want/need a state. Current government in Israel believes such a state will only be used to attack
    a larger part of Israel, than possible from Gaza, so it delays/stalls. This government needs to be replaced.
    For this Israeli voters need to be convinced.
    The real extremists wants the West Bank to become part of Israel combined with forcing Palestinians out.
    They are a minority, but will try to block any peace which would be acceptabe to Palestinians.
    * Borders must be negotiated, any Jews on the Palestinian border needs to choose, either move to Israel
    or become citizen of Palestine. Most will likely move to Israel. This will be more or less based on 67 borders.
    If Palestinians can't stand the sights of Jews, then no peace is possible.
    Both Palestinians and Jews must see each others as brothers for peace to happen.
    With agreed adjustments. Think borders is more or less a done deal, w exception for Jerusalem.
    Jews remaining in Palestine is currently not accepted.
    Obviously, jews remaining may be prosecuted if they committed crimes like uprooting olive trees,
    so extremist jews are likely to move back to Israel.
    State sponsored education must not spread hate of the other parties in school.
    If children are taught to hate, then problem will remain for another 50-60 years.
    Children need to meet and play, to get respect for each other.
    Palestinians under occupation, get pissed of by all the bad treatment as well as general difficulties
    involved in beeing occupied. Noone likes this.
    Israeli soldiers are pissed off because they are forced to waste time guarding West Bank.
    * If eventually trust can be established, Palestinians can move back to Israel. This is going to take a long time.
    Israelis are not going to accept becoming a minority in Israel initially, so there will be some limitations.
    Ideally it should not be so, but real life is in this case so far from the ideal world that it is pointless
    to dream about it.
    * Compensation claims needs to take in account both Palestinian refugees, and Jews emigrated from Arab countries.
    Obviously any Jews that choose to remain in Palestine, must only live on land properly payed for.
    * Jerusalem is going to be an issue, and you already know my opinion.
    Both parties have non-negotiable claims to the Temple/Al-Aqsa area.
    I do not think the two parties will be able to resolve this by themselves,
    and only real solution is that neither have control, and Jerusalem is handled
    by UN, with an advisory religious council of muslims, jews and christians.
    The contested area must be open to all humans world wide, showing respect.
    Violators, permanently banned.
    Palestinians are certainly getting a rough deal, and Israeli local government are
    slowly deporting Palestinians living in Jerusalem, when law so permits.
    That would not happen with a U.N. ruled Jerusalem.

    Syria got Russian help, You mean that this was not as good?
    Syria lost, because Syrias army was executing a Soviet style frontal attack against prepared positions.
    If Syrian Air Force had achieved air superiority it could have devastated these positions.
    If the attack would have used modern combined arms tactics then the Israeli numerical
    disadvantage would have made it very difficult for them to win.

    Egypt had a sound battle plan, Syria didn't, and did not have well trained army either.
    When Syria ran into trouble, Egyptians abandoned something which was really working,
    to relieve pressure on Syrians. Syria should be THANKFUL to any Egptins nd still has a debt to pay.

    Why did not Syria build armed forces that could defeat Israel on its own?
    Your own fault. Not he fault of the Egyptians.
     
  5. Syrian Lion

    Syrian Lion SENIOR MEMBER

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    King Hussien begged the west for help, and don't forget Syria didn't use all of its army... while Jordan did... anyways... Both Syria and Egypt planned the war together.. what do you mean Syria didn't have plan, it was simple for both Egypt and Syria, to get the occupied land back, Egypt did, since the pressure was not all on Egypt, while in the Syrian case, when Egypt stopped, all the pressure was put on Syria... and again, Syria had one of the best armies in the Arab world, it is a known fact, the three best armies in the Arab world were Syria, Egypt and Iraq... so don't tell me that Syrian army was not trained, don't forget Israel had free flow of weapons and support from the west...
     
  6. mahatir

    mahatir FULL MEMBER

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    Actually Sadat had to increase his attacks and go out of sam battery range to relief pressure on Syrian side after your army got their asses kicked by Israel .

    As I told you , relying on Shabiha and illiterate peasants from the coast as your core special forces will only get your asses kicked every time you think about going to war with Israel .

    If Assad wants to improve his army without relying on foreign mercenaries then he will have to recruit more Druze and Bedioun arabs in his special forces but tribal mentality of security circles within Assad regime would oppose any real attempt to reform the army .
     
  7. mahatir

    mahatir FULL MEMBER

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    Most Israel forces were fighting on the Egyptian front where they faced a lot of problems to the point they asked for American intellegence help to expose any weak points on the Egyptian front.

    Syria got its *** kicked only after 5 days of fighting and the forces were then moved to the Egyptian front , for that reason Sadat decided to increase his attack on the Egyptian front to relief pressure on Syrian side after israel was only 40 km away from damascus then both Jordan and Iraq armies entered to save damascus from getting conquered .

    Jordan had a small army back in 1970 but they were highly trained and composed entirely of professionals , they managed to kick your *** on Jordan border while effectively defeating palestinian insurgents inside Jordan . Today Jordan has a strong army made up of 100 thousand forces mostly special forces , their situation today is even much better that when they only had a small army back in 1970.

    You see back in 1970 Syria tried to instigate a civil war in Jordan by supporting terrorists and extremists but what goes around comes around , simply your plans on Jordan were foiled since they had a strong well trained army and no one helped them by the way .

    Look at you today clown , your president relies on Foreign mercenaries to barely hold the capital and you have been sunk in this endless war for more than 3 years now with insurgents consolidating power in north , south and even near the shabiha backyard in latakia .

    As I told you , your army is simply a Joke unless your military leaders start reforming and recruiting from other sects inside the special forces , other than that your doomed , shabiha and peasants cannot be the backbone of any modern army .

    Perhaps Assad could give citizenships to Hezbollah members and let them run his rump army but that would require making in-direct peace with Israel to save your asses.

    Hezbollah is only interested in securing his weapons supply route from the coast and that has cost him a lot of losses , to get him to fight on other fronts would require making in-direct peace with israel otherwise the current situation is unsustainable as shabiha clowns are not doing well on other fronts.
     
  8. Syrian Lion

    Syrian Lion SENIOR MEMBER

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    @mahatir you know nothing about Black September, you saying Jordan beat the Syrian army, but you don't know facts, do you know that the Jordanian air force attacked the Syrian army that easily invaded Jordan, ONE DIVISION OF THE SYRIAN ARMY INVADED JORDAN, without the Syrian air force, and the Syrian air force was never used in the conflict... so STFU, go get educated and learn some facts... you are comparing the whole Jordanian army victory over ONE DIVISION of Syrian army with no air support... which made their kings beg the west for help... all your information about the conflict is wrong, because you are racist and ignorant... the Syrian army is not composed of tribes, it is composed of Syrian people.. every Syrian is part of the Syrian military, your racist false information are not worth of replying...

    now I'm ending this discussion, since you are comparing the victory of the Jordan with West over ONE DIVISION of the Syrian army, it is actually an honor, that it took a the west and Jordan to fight ONE DIVISION THAT INVADED JORDAN...
     
  9. Mahmoud_EGY

    Mahmoud_EGY SENIOR MEMBER

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    the gap was caused by the attack we did outside of our air defence cover this attack was to try to help in the syrian front everything before this was going perfect in the Egyptian front
     
  10. Falcon29

    Falcon29 ELITE MEMBER

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    @A.P. Richelieu

    I'm not even wasting my time with you, expected that, deflect all blame on the victims and accuse a 'minority' of extremists of wanting the West Bank . Actually a minority don't want to colonize it, otherwise we wouldn't be where we are today you troll.

    The kid is a racist clown trolling us about how we're getting 'raped', lol. Let's see him fight a war, he's really good at talking.
     
  11. A.P. Richelieu

    A.P. Richelieu SENIOR MEMBER

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    I didn't say Syria had a plan, I said Syria didn't have a *sound* plan.

    Egypts plan: Advance over the Suez Canal, while Israel had very weak defense.
    Stay within the SAM umbrella, and repulse the forthcoming counterattack from IDF.
    Israel lost heavily.

    Syrias plan: Banzai attack w 1000 unsupported tanks vs the Golan Heights.- Losing a LOT.
    Israelis unlike Syrians did not have night fighting equipment, but still won night fights.
    Better to sneak up infantry w RPGs/Saggers during the night, to make sure that the Israelis
    cannot reach their prepared positions.
    Israelis also positioned tanks at choke points, and those allowed the Israelis to kill off tanks before they
    could make their guns bear at the Israelis. Supporting Infantry would solve that problem.
     
  12. mahatir

    mahatir FULL MEMBER

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    this is exactly what I told him , man it would have been better for Egypt to have went along back in 1973 , simply Syrian army is weak since special forces and elite troops are only recruited from tribes and clans related to Assad whom only form 10% of syrian population.

    Egypt was defeated in 1967 war because of Nasser policy of recruiting officers based on loyalty rather than quality , Sadat changed this trend which lead to Egypt performing much better in 1973 war and during war of attrition on the other hand Syrian regime still appoints soldiers not only based on loyalty but also tribal links .

    I am here referring to full time professionals in Syrian army , most than 80% of them come from tribes and clans related to Assad while temporary conscripts whom serve for 1 year are poorly trained and anyhow most countries have been reducing the number of conscripts including Egypt for greater firepower and efficiency , but still syrian regime is stock with the soviet era mentality.

    I am very clear in my words , I am talking about special and elite forces in the Syrian army including full time soldiers more than 80% of these come from tribes and clans related to Assad.

    For god sake you cant count 1 year temporary conscripts as proper soldiers , they are poorly trained and have no experience, yes most temporary conscripts from from other sects in syria , but they are poorly trained to ensure that no coup would be carried out against the regime while elite forces are solely from Assad sect and related tribes.

    Both Egypt and Jordan did perform well against Israel but syria;s Assad army always got its *** kicked and needed others to save it from complete destruction , before iraq and jordan saved your *** , today its hezbollah and other foreign mercenaries.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  13. A.P. Richelieu

    A.P. Richelieu SENIOR MEMBER

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    Interesting enough, this post gave me my first positive rating after ~150 posts.

    Your rating after 6000+ posts (positive - negative) adds up to, lets see... Oh Yes: "1" :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:
     
  14. Falcon29

    Falcon29 ELITE MEMBER

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    That's cute and and all but no thanks. :lol:
     
  15. Mahmoud_EGY

    Mahmoud_EGY SENIOR MEMBER

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    also in 67 war lack of planing what happened is isreal threating to attack syria so nasser order the army to go to sanai as warning or like general shazly said a military protest with out being ready to fight which is exactly what the isrealis wanted of course everyone knows how this story ended