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Why a Whole Community in Pakistan Is Going Missing

Taimur Khurram

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I feel sorry for all the Ahmediyyas out there. Ahmediyya Muslims supported the creation of Pakistan. And then they were OFFICIALLY declared non-Muslims by the Pakistani state !

Karma is a...
Because they're not Muslim.

As a Hindu, you are in no position to tell us Muslims who and who doesn't count as one of our own.

WHo gave you guys the right to consider /Non consider a particular community Muslim or Non Muslim? When Mullahs declared Salman Khan out of Muslim community, Salman's father asked them to to produce certificate that when he was taken in Muslim community?
Easy, the Quran and Hadees sets a standard for who is Muslim and who is not Muslim. If you don't fit the bill, you are not Muslim.

If you or anyone else doesn't like that, tough.

Asalamu Alaikum

Bro please don't swear.
 

Mahmood-ur-Rehman

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Sporting Pakistan movement can,t make Ahmadis Muslim .Like Deobandi Muslim were against the creation of Pakistan can,t make them Hindu.Ahmadis should accept the reality that they are not Muslim because they belive in the finality of Miza Ghulam Ahmed while Muslim believe in the finality of Mohammad (peace be upon him).As for as terrorism is concerned from 1984 till 2017 more than 70000 Muslims are killed in Pakistan By India and America by the help of TTP and other proxies .But no with the grace of God we have control them.
 

Taimoor Khan

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I feel sorry for all the Ahmediyyas out there. Ahmediyya Muslims supported the creation of Pakistan. And then they were OFFICIALLY declared non-Muslims by the Pakistani state !

Karma is a...

They haven't been able to conveince the majority that their ideas are inline with Islamic teachings hence the law. That however, doesn't mean that they are persecuted by state. They are responsibility of the state as its citizens and given the opportunity to prosper like any other citizen. They are well off people. This is their city:



Doesn't look like a persecuted community by state does it and make OP look like an idiot with the Bollywood type sensational title?
 
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xyxmt

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100,000? o_O Are you mad, they are at best 20,000-30,000.
because you are only counting the real Qadyanis, I am counting both real and fake Qadyani asylum seekers :)

They haven't been able to conveince the majority that their ideas are inline with Islamic teachings hence the law. That however, doesn't mean that they are persecuted by state. They are responsibility of the state as its citizens and given the opportunity to prosper like any other citizen. They are well off people. This is their city:



Doesn't look like a persecuted community by state does it and make OP look like an idiot with the Bollywood type sensational title?
this place looks like Brampton Ontario, I guess Sikhs are too a prosecuted Community in Canada.

By the way Indian are looking at this video with an Awe if prosecuted Communities in Pakistan have this life style, 90% of Indians would love to be prosecuted in Pakistan.
 

CIS-TRANS

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I feel sorry for all the Ahmediyyas out there. Ahmediyya Muslims supported the creation of Pakistan. And then they were OFFICIALLY declared non-Muslims by the Pakistani state !

Karma is a...
I feel sorry for hindutva that despite of their endeavour to defame other religions, they are forgetting that their own followers are leaving hindu religion due to evil acts of hindutva bhakts.

Karma is a......... Whatever
 

Kuru

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Or maybe you do genuinely believe that they have been killed and shoved in mass graves due to hindutva brainwashing... the real reasons are quite the contrary:
Okay let's see the reasons here.

There was an equal number of movement of Muslims from india and Hindus and Sikhs to india after partition, but percentage wise a greater shift happened from Pakistan to India due to smaller relative base
That's true.

Loss of East Pakistan which had the bulk of Hindu minority, where as it was more or less the same in 1951 census as it is today in Pakistan (compared to West Pakistan): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_in_Pakistan#1951
The Hindu population stayed the same since 1947. You know why? Thats because according to Pakistan's own minority minister, some 5000 Pak Hindus migrate to India every year.

5,000 Hindus migrating to India every year, NA told | Dawn
https://www.dawn.com/news/1105830

What happens to the rest you may want to ask? So read this:

1,000 minority girls forced in marriage every year: report | Dawn
https://www.dawn.com/news/1098452

You destroyed Hindu temples. Out of 400+ temples, only 26 survive today!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hindu_temples_in_Pakistan

Are you not ashamed to talk about the status of Pak minorities Bilal ? Your constitution don't even allow them to become a PM or president. Thats a freaking law in your country! You want us to take lessons from you as to how to treat the minority? Really Bilal ?

Tell me more about Pak Hindus, I'll give you countless links to get you out of your imagined la la land.
Relatively high fertility rates of Muslims, a phenomenon common across the globe
But you were saying that Indians are killing the Muslims weren't you? So how come Muslims grown from 9% in 1951 to 14% today? 30 million Muslims to 190 million Muslims in India ? Why no Indian muslim is migrating to Pakistan because of persecution (like Hindus are migrating from Pakistan to India) ?

May be you want to come to your senses now?

General migration to greener pastures, you'll find large communities in europe, north america, well established and educated, unlike how a refugee under duress would find themselves
Yeah they are coming to India like I just showed above, I still won't call India "greener pastures" as you put it, but they are just running for their lives. And you wanna give me the lesson for treating the Indian minority. Shame on you Bilal.

Now here is an exercise for you, list down religious progroms in the past 30 years, in india, in which 250 or more minority members lost their lives in a single event. That might, just might, tickle a neuron or two...
I never - NEVER - said that India is a perfect country. And I'll never do that. Because we too have some ch*tyas here who are trying to break the secular fabric of India. But India will always remain secular by and large. I can assure you that.

And since this thread is about Ahmediyyas - and Pak minorities, so I wont do the homework on India's minority (I don't want to go off topic buddy). What I did do however was found some information on Ahmediyyas there in Pakistan.

Lahore Ahmediyya Riots : 200 to 10000 Ahmediyyas killed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Lahore_riots

1974 anti Ahmediyya Riots : unknown number of Ahmadiyyas killed. 10s of Ahmediyya mosque destroyed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Anti-Ahmadiyya_riots

2010 anti Ahmediyya Riots: 94 Killed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ahmadiyya_mosques_massacre

So what are you even talking about ? You have persecuted Ahmediyyas (and other minorities in Pak) so much that even UN president Ban-ki-Moon had to issue a statement!

Pakistan: Ban strongly condemns latest terrorist attacks

https://news.un.org/en/story/2014/06/470362-pakistan-ban-strongly-condemns-latest-terrorist-attacks


So how about staying on topic finally? Are you done talking about Indian Muslims now ? What do you think Pakistan should do to assure the Pak Minorities that they are safe there ?

They haven't been able to conveince the majority that their ideas are inline with Islamic teachings hence the law. That however, doesn't mean that they are persecuted by state. They are responsibility of the state as its citizens and given the opportunity to prosper like any other citizen. They are well off people:
You are denying them the religious freedom for whatever reasons. OFFICIALLY declared them something that they believe they are not. That's enough to consider that they are persecuted by the state.

Because they're not Muslim.

As a Hindu, you are in no position to tell us Muslims who and who doesn't count as one of our own.
They are officially Muslims in India (according to Chennai High court ruling which isn't a Hindu court BTW) so I'll go with that.
 

Jaanbaz

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because you are only counting the real Qadyanis, I am counting both real and fake Qadyani asylum seekers :)
You mean Sunnis who pretend to be Ahmadis to get asylum? Yeah I met a few in UK but its almost impossible to do that in UK now, don't know about Canada.
 

xyxmt

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You mean Sunnis who pretend to be Ahmadis to get asylum? Yeah I met a few in UK but its almost impossible to do that in UK now, don't know about Canada.
dont know how successful it is in Canada but at least they can apply for asylum and stay for 6 year while the process goes on
 

Bilal.

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Okay let's see the reasons here.


The Hindu population stayed the same since 1947. You know why? Thats because according to Pakistan's own minority minister, some 5000 Pak Hindus migrate to India every year.
So after parroting it has declined, you have a problem with it staying the same? It stayed the same because they stayed and grew proportionally at the same rate and with the same fertility rate as the rest of the population.

5,000 Hindus migrating to India every year, NA told | Dawn
https://www.dawn.com/news/1105830

What happens to the rest you may want to ask? So read this:

1,000 minority girls forced in marriage every year: report | Dawn
https://www.dawn.com/news/1098452

You destroyed Hindu temples. Out of 400+ temples, only 26 survive today!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hindu_temples_in_Pakistan

Are you not ashamed to talk about the status of Pak minorities Bilal ? Your constitution don't even allow them to become a PM or president. Thats a freaking law in your country! You want us to take lessons from you as to how to treat the minority? Really Bilal ?

Tell me more about Pak Hindus, I'll give you countless links to get you out of your imagined la la land.
These migration happened at the peak of TTP rampage when no Pakistani was safe and has since subsided... never before, never after.


But you were saying that Indians are killing the Muslims weren't you? So how come Muslims grown from 9% in 1951 to 14% today? 30 million Muslims to 190 million Muslims in India ? Why no Indian muslim is migrating to Pakistan because of persecution (like Hindus are migrating from Pakistan to India) ?

May be you want to come to your senses now?


Yeah they are coming to India like I just showed above, I still won't call India "greener pastures" as you put it, but they are just running for their lives. And you wanna give me the lesson for treating the Indian minority. Shame on you Bilal.
Nope, I said, hindutva terrorists (not some fringe group) has been killing and terrorizing ALL minorities and even weak groups like dalit, say it isn't so with a straight face if you are not a shameless liar.

Shame should be on you that instead of worrying about them you are trying to "return the favor", just another heartless, inhuman, internet propagandist out to find fault in others. If not let me see all the threads you have opened for your internal atrocities and I will apologize.

I never - NEVER - said that India is a perfect country. And I'll never do that. Because we too have some ch*tyas here who are trying to break the secular fabric of India. But India will always remain secular by and large. I can assure you that.
Secular country with RSS as the de facto ruling party and I need not summarize their agenda. india is changing, whether you accept it or not. Not just on top level but on grassroots level.

And since this thread is about Ahmediyyas - and Pak minorities, so I wont do the homework on India's minority (I don't want to go off topic buddy). What I did do however was found some information on Ahmediyyas there in Pakistan.

Lahore Ahmediyya Riots : 200 to 10000 Ahmediyyas killed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Lahore_riots

1974 anti Ahmediyya Riots : unknown number of Ahmadiyyas killed. 10s of Ahmediyya mosque destroyed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Anti-Ahmadiyya_riots

2010 anti Ahmediyya Riots: 94 Killed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ahmadiyya_mosques_massacre

So what are you even talking about ? You have persecuted Ahmediyyas (and other minorities in Pak) so much that even UN president Ban-ki-Moon had to issue a statement!

Pakistan: Ban strongly condemns latest terrorist attacks

https://news.un.org/en/story/2014/06/470362-pakistan-ban-strongly-condemns-latest-terrorist-attacks


So how about staying on topic finally? Are you done talking about Indian Muslims now ? What do you think Pakistan should do to assure the Pak Minorities that they are safe there ?
So you couldn't find the moral courage list 30 years worth of religious progroms of your "secular" india and instead dug out 70 years darker parts of our history. Let me give a helping hand with only a few examples:

  • 1980's anti sikh riots, not 100, not thousand, estmated 10,000 plus sikhs killed.
  • 2008 anti christian riot orisa -hundreds killed, thousands afftected and turned homeless
  • 2002 anti Muslim riots gujrat - Thousands killed and effected
These are just the industrial scale ones just in the last 30 odd years and one for each main minority, the smaller ones and the daily lynching are too numerous to even list or think of.

So big bad Pakistan might have its problem but you are the heavy weight in the department, no comparison.

Therefore, instead of "returning favors" with your fake sympathies, take care of your own house.
 
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Taimur Khurram

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They are officially Muslims in India (according to Chennai High court ruling which isn't a Hindu court BTW) so I'll go with that.
That's not something to go by when it comes to these sorts of issues. For these sorts of issues, you see what respected Islamic scholars of the past (or now) have said.

It's almost unanimously considered that Qadianis are not Muslim.
 

TMA

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Okay let's see the reasons here.


That's true.


The Hindu population stayed the same since 1947. You know why? Thats because according to Pakistan's own minority minister, some 5000 Pak Hindus migrate to India every year.

5,000 Hindus migrating to India every year, NA told | Dawn
https://www.dawn.com/news/1105830

What happens to the rest you may want to ask? So read this:

1,000 minority girls forced in marriage every year: report | Dawn
https://www.dawn.com/news/1098452

You destroyed Hindu temples. Out of 400+ temples, only 26 survive today!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hindu_temples_in_Pakistan

Are you not ashamed to talk about the status of Pak minorities Bilal ? Your constitution don't even allow them to become a PM or president. Thats a freaking law in your country! You want us to take lessons from you as to how to treat the minority? Really Bilal ?

Tell me more about Pak Hindus, I'll give you countless links to get you out of your imagined la la land.


But you were saying that Indians are killing the Muslims weren't you? So how come Muslims grown from 9% in 1951 to 14% today? 30 million Muslims to 190 million Muslims in India ? Why no Indian muslim is migrating to Pakistan because of persecution (like Hindus are migrating from Pakistan to India) ?

May be you want to come to your senses now?


Yeah they are coming to India like I just showed above, I still won't call India "greener pastures" as you put it, but they are just running for their lives. And you wanna give me the lesson for treating the Indian minority. Shame on you Bilal.


I never - NEVER - said that India is a perfect country. And I'll never do that. Because we too have some ch*tyas here who are trying to break the secular fabric of India. But India will always remain secular by and large. I can assure you that.

And since this thread is about Ahmediyyas - and Pak minorities, so I wont do the homework on India's minority (I don't want to go off topic buddy). What I did do however was found some information on Ahmediyyas there in Pakistan.

Lahore Ahmediyya Riots : 200 to 10000 Ahmediyyas killed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Lahore_riots

1974 anti Ahmediyya Riots : unknown number of Ahmadiyyas killed. 10s of Ahmediyya mosque destroyed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Anti-Ahmadiyya_riots

2010 anti Ahmediyya Riots: 94 Killed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ahmadiyya_mosques_massacre

So what are you even talking about ? You have persecuted Ahmediyyas (and other minorities in Pak) so much that even UN president Ban-ki-Moon had to issue a statement!

Pakistan: Ban strongly condemns latest terrorist attacks

https://news.un.org/en/story/2014/06/470362-pakistan-ban-strongly-condemns-latest-terrorist-attacks


So how about staying on topic finally? Are you done talking about Indian Muslims now ? What do you think Pakistan should do to assure the Pak Minorities that they are safe there ?


You are denying them the religious freedom for whatever reasons. OFFICIALLY declared them something that they believe they are not. That's enough to consider that they are persecuted by the state.


They are officially Muslims in India (according to Chennai High court ruling which isn't a Hindu court BTW) so I'll go with that.
Define religious freedom.
Define Muslim.
Define persecution.

They haven't been able to conveince the majority that their ideas are inline with Islamic teachings hence the law. That however, doesn't mean that they are persecuted by state. They are responsibility of the state as its citizens and given the opportunity to prosper like any other citizen. They are well off people. This is their city:



Doesn't look like a persecuted community by state does it and make OP look like an idiot with the Bollywood type sensational title?
They are persecuted(!) They are not allowed to have disproportionate political representation(!) They are no longer allowed to represent those they consider disbelievers(!)
 

Kuru

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So after parroting it has declined, you have a problem with it staying the same? It stayed the same because they stayed and grew proportionally at the same rate and with the same fertility rate as the rest of the population
According to the link you gave me earlier, Pakistan's hindu population in 1951 was 12.9% (est). However the Hindu population in 1961 was 9.40% (est). And this is your own wiki link. Now what does that tell you?

These migration happened at the peak of TTP rampage when no Pakistani was safe and has since subsided... never before, never after.
Why lie Bilal, accept it and nothing will go wrong. Read this Dawn peace:

---

Recounting the recent history of Umerkot, Jumman told us that in 1965, Umerkot’s population was 80% Hindu and 20% Muslim. Then came the 1965 war and a major upheaval took place in the lives of the residents. Fearing reprisals by Muslims, most Hindus crossed over to India.

The religious composition of Umerkot has now changed and the majority of the population is Muslim.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1317968

----

And this is just Umerkot. I can imagine what may have happened in other areas too.

If you say that migration of the Hindus is only due to the recent TTP terrorism then you are just lying. And the sad part is that you don't even know you are lying.

Nope, I said, hindutva terrorists (not some fringe group) has been killing and terrorizing ALL minorities and even weak groups like dalit, say it isn't so with a straight face if you are not a shameless liar.
If there is a mass genocide of Muslims in India then why no muslim is moving to Pakistan because of religious persecution ? it's a very simple question and I trust that you will be able to answer it.
Secular country with RSS as the de facto ruling party and I need not summarize their agenda. india is changing, whether you accept it or not. Not just on top level but on grassroots
I find it funny that a citizen of Islamic Republic of Pakistan is lecturing on secularism! I really do find it funny.

Why not first make a law in Pakistan which allows everyone to become a President and PM for a change? Maybe that's when I will take your secularism lecture seriously.

So you couldn't find the moral courage list 30 years worth of religious progroms of your "secular" india and instead dug out 70 years darker parts of our history. Let me give a helping hand with only a few examples:

  • 1980's anti sikh riots, not 100, not thousand, estmated 10,000 plus sikhs killed.
  • 2008 anti christian riot orisa -hundreds killed, thousands afftected and turned homeless
  • 2002 anti Muslim riots gujrat - Thousands killed and effected
Your constant avoidance of my questions on Ahmadi Muslims in Pakistan (which BTW is a topic of this thread) is really amusing. You have commented absolutely nothing on all the anti-ahmadiyya riots' links I gave you in my earlier post. It just shows that you aren't being serious for this debate. Whenever I speak about Ahmediyyas in Pakistan (and try to be on topic), you come up with Indian minorities!

Also what is more funny is that I already replied about Indian Muslims in my previous post. I specifically asked in my previous post and I am going to ask you again:

1. If there is so much religious persecution, then why no Indian Muslim leaving India for Pakistan (just like Pakistani Hindus leaving Pakistan for India) ?

2. If we kill so many Muslims (as you claim) then how come their population has increased from 9 % in 1951 to 14% in India today?

Why you are avoiding these questions and going round in circles Bilal? Why have you not comment at anything on the anti-ahmadiyya riots in Pakistan so far?

So big bad Pakistan might have its problem but you are the heavy weight in the department, no comparison.
So let me guess what makes India "heavyweight" in treating its minority unfairly:

1. We allow all non Hindus (Muslims Christians buddhists Jewish etcetera) to become a prime minister or president. We believe in equality.
2. Muslims don't leave India for Pakistan because of religious persecution.
3. Minority population has increased in India over the years.
4. Absence of blasphemy laws.

Okay now it all makes sense. Now I understand why Pakistan is better for minorities while India is bad !

BTW, I find it funny that in a thread about ahmadiyya Muslims in Pakistan, you want to talk about Indian minorities and don't want to comment on the sorry state of Ahmadiyya Muslims in Pakistan.
 
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Taimur Khurram

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You destroyed Hindu temples. Out of 400+ temples, only 26 survive today!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hindu_temples_in_Pakistan

Are you not ashamed to talk about the status of Pak minorities Bilal ? Your constitution don't even allow them to become a PM or president. Thats a freaking law in your country! You want us to take lessons from you as to how to treat the minority? Really Bilal ?

Tell me more about Pak Hindus, I'll give you countless links to get you out of your imagined la la land.


But you were saying that Indians are killing the Muslims weren't you? So how come Muslims grown from 9% in 1951 to 14% today? 30 million Muslims to 190 million Muslims in India ? Why no Indian muslim is migrating to Pakistan because of persecution (like Hindus are migrating from Pakistan to India) ?

I never - NEVER - said that India is a perfect country. And I'll never do that. Because we too have some ch*tyas here who are trying to break the secular fabric of India. But India will always remain secular by and large. I can assure you that.
We lack a Hindu population that actually goes and prays to such temples. They are pretty useless so yes we will take most of them down.

Also, they don't just leave because of migration, they also get converted in pretty to Islam in pretty hefty numbers. It's not our problem that Islam is growing and Hinduism is dying:

https://tribune.com.pk/story/325623...he-ex-hindu-who-herds-souls-to-the-hereafter/

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...to-islam-in-pakistan/articleshow/63538595.cms

We don't allow them to become PM or President because there could be a conflict of interests, but then again, if we allow people like Zardari or Nawaz to run for office, I really wonder why we bother to make it illegal for self-professed Kafirs to run the place when we clearly have closet ones running the show.

Muslims in Hindustan are increasing in numbers for two reasons. Firstly, Hindustan is a LOT bigger than Pakistan, so it's much harder for someone in Uttar Pradesh or Hyderabad to get to Pakistan than it is for someone from Sindh to get to Hindustan. Secondly, it's because Muslims worldwide are growing due to more people converting to Islam and because we boast higher fertility rates.

Hindustan is not secular, don't make me laugh. Eating beef can get you lynched and is banned in several parts of the country, Masjids like Babri Masjid have been attacked numerous times, the BJP are in power, Dalits are mistreated, etc. Just look at that whole incident with that weirdo on Twitter or that cabbie in Delhi.

1. We allow all non Hindus (Muslims Christians buddhists Jewish etcetera) to become a prime minister or president. We believe in equality.
2. Muslims don't leave India for Pakistan because of religious persecution.
3. Minority population has increased in India over the years.
4. Absence of blasphemy laws.
5. No Muslim, Christian, Buddhist girl is kidnapped and converted forcefully.
1. Right, but they will rarely (if ever) be elected to such positions unless they act like a Hindu, but even then it's unlikely unless they change their name along with it. Also, you do not allow all people to run for all positions, but it varies more on your tribe/ethnic group than your religion:

https://www.outlookindia.com/newswi...ds-only-for-rajput-jats-and-sikhs-army/812301

2. Because we prefer to stay and fight rather than run away. Also, getting from Uttar Pradesh or Hyderabad to Pakistan is much longer and more difficult than going to Hindustan from Sindh.

3. Because of better fertility rates and increased conversions to Islam by non-Muslims in Hindustan (this is also a global phenomenon).

4. But no absence of beef laws, or the wretched caste system (you still have scheduled and forward castes). Minorities are also still attacked by mobs in Hindustan.

5. Wrong:

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1298023/hundreds-indian-muslim-girls-forced-converting-hinduism/
 

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