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Who's More important? Pakistan or COAS :Imran Khan

Who's more important?

  • Pakistan

  • Army Chief


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imadul

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The enemies of Pakistan will always ensure that Pakistan Army gets a bad name. The question arises will the Pakistan Army turn into traitors as to why to defend a thankless nation ? No. Neither the officers nor the troops will ever resort to such action.

An officer gets marginal salary along with medical and other concessional facilities on which he thrives all his career. He gets posted after 2-3 years at places which you or the public may not even have heard names of. Every officer's family life is affected badly due to constant movement. Till his retirement, he doesn't own a home unless its inherited etc. He may get property like plots, on merit. He retires with pension, apartment/house and plots. Then Army facilitates him to get a job through Fauji Foundation ventures. He can lose all this if he makes a mistake during his career or gets court martailed.

Maybe if, Government departments and other sectors also look after a person from training till death, the corrupt system might start to diminish.

The survey wouldn't hold any value. The operations by Army in KPK and Baluchistan have earned it a good name among locals in rural and under developed areas. When Army cleansed different areas from the clutches of terrorists and extremists, the locals were already thankful to them. On top of that Army helped making schools, hospitals, roads, bridges etc. Then Army again showed its presence in COVID-19 drive to places other than metro cities of Pakistan. I don't have a percentage of rural or urban population of Pakistan whether how may use the internet and how many believe the propaganda created against Army/COAS, but I know that the numbers wont dwindle in ISSB and recruitment centers.

Army is being compared politically and all else is being side lined. I remember that talks against Bajwa started as soon as the extension proposal was brought in which he later accepted. On PDF, members started discussing why Bajwa shouldn't have taken extension or why he is unsuitable to lead the Army. This was years ago. This is how 5th gen warfare starts. plant the seed, let it mature and grow in next years. Examples of 50's till 2000's from Ayub till Musharraf became topics again to malign military leaders and then even the martyrdom of one soldier became un-acceptable.

You think I wasn't witnessing that ? All that talk of MRAPs, budgets, FC, wall building, IEDs, etc. Every topic about these became political. First 3 posts would be cursing top brass, next 4 posts would be blaming Bajwa and the rest of posts thread would be "ensuring" that Army has failed and no action is being taken. After a few days, Army/FC/LEA would have retaliated and the terrorists who committed these atrocious acts would have been shot dead during an IBO. Loot at topics from 2018 onwards in the Pakistan Internal Security section.

Bhai, do you know that PDF threads are read by Intel agencies of Pakistan and India ? Have you ever seen that whenever a sensitive or hot topic is posted, there are 3-4 users and 10+ guests. I have myself stopped posting many topics related to understanding Pakistan Army formations and weapons. I have helped a member or two to delete their posts as it had already put related professional's careers in jeopardy.

In military related topics, I have pointed out wherever Pakistan Armed Forces have made blunders. Many operations resulted in failure and loss of life which could have been avoided. But when things turn political, the required proofs are not provided and the conversation thrives on propaganda. How hard is it to detect a victim of propaganda ? Look at their recent posts. Is there proof, is there sanity, is there a biased opinion, is it evident they are speaking the language of a journalist like they have just seen a video uploaded by a journalist and started spreading his views, how is their reasoning skill etc. You will get to know as soon as you quote and reply them. Its not rocket science.


Yes and Army is fighting a war on many fronts, just as India wanted.


I had suggested earlier that IK is not politically mature and that he could have learnt a few things from the political genius (though evil) Zardari but the PTI brigade came out of trenches to cordon me off from all sides. I like Ik but in this very thread I have seen his own supporters calling him stupid, naive etc and what not. I had said that sometime earlier already but it was indigestible by the PTI Brigade then.


Army cannot go weak- period. Its the only functional and standing institution in Pakistan which will take care of itself, its ranks, its equipment, Pakistan's nukes, Pakistan's missiles, Pakistani people and Pakistan. Whether you or I may like it or not, Army will all do that.


If I also sit on internet to watch propaganda videos uploaded by journalists against Military and Bajwa, sooner or later, I will also be a victim of propaganda. I should be able to understand according to my own perception what is 5th generation warfare. What is hybrid warfare. How its fought and how it affects the masses who sit on internet.

I never joined PA, I am not paid by PA, I really do NOT owe any loyalty to PA, I can write at will against PA, I don't care who is COAS, I dont care who is promoted or not, I hate martial law and I dislike Military taking part in poliics - but I know how PA operates.

If I sat in Div HQs or Corps Commanders meetings or if I sat in mess lounges at get togethers, I would also have tall and high claims of what is happening, who is being promoted, who should be promoted, what is Bajwa doing etc. I haven't been present in any of those. So I also don't believe if someone else claims about the above, since I know that is not how Army conducts its business.
Nice write up, Bro. I am thankful.
I shall try to be precise and cover your points.

1. When we say Army we generally mean chief, and select confidants. Chief abuses army power of discipline for political gain. This time bajwa used Army power to throw an elected govt, the patience has given away. It is simple sedition. Indication came at Islamabad security dialogue when he went against govt policy. IK should had fired him. Now whole country facing consequences.

2. Young men join army by choice. Once become captain which is grade 17 salary plus extra benefits (and move up in higher ranks/grades) which they deserve because they defend.
2. Plots at retirement are not a fair game. There is a race in society to get plots and houses. Army , police, judiciary, politicians, beurocrats get plots at the expense of an ordinary Pakistani.
3. An AUDIT must be done of all DHA's. Everyone must return 2nd plot.

4. Bajwa has sent country backwards, he desperately sticking to his wrongs, and Army getting fall out. He should resign or forced to resign.

5. Reforms are must in Army, current CoAS has literally become emperor by abusing discipline of the army. No one above country and law.

6. By violating law and constitution we are becoming failed state.

7. It does not matter what Indians and other enemies say, they will do what enemies do, country has to run under law and constitution for justice, and political stability.

Sorry, response became long, but there is so much to say. I shall end here.
 
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Signalian

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Nice write up, Bro. I am thankful.
I shall try to be precise and cover your points.

1. When we say Army we generally mean chief, and select confidants. Chief abuses army power of discipline for political gain. This time bajwa used Army power to throw an elected govt, the patience has given away. It is simple sedition. Indication came at Islamabad security dialogue when he went against govt policy. IK should had fired him. Now whole country facing consequences.

2. Young men join army by choice. Once become captain which is grade 17 salary plus extra benefits (and move up in higher ranks/grades) which they deserve because they defend.
2. Plots at retirement are not a fair game. There is a race in society to get plots and houses. Army , police, judiciary, politicians, beurocrats get plots at the expense of an ordinary Pakistani.
3. An AUDIT must be done of all DHA's. Everyone must return 2nd plot.

4. Bajwa has sent country backwards, he desperately sticking to his wrongs, and Army getting fall out. He should resign or forced to resign.

5. Reforms are must in Army, current CoAS has literally become emperor by abusing discipline of the army. No one above country and law.

6. By violating law and constitution we are becoming failed state.

7. It does not matter what Indians and other enemies say, they will do what enemies do, country has to run under law and constitution for justice, and political stability.

Sorry, response became long, but there is so much to say. I shall end here.
Its a sunday, unless you have to go work - you should be sleeping
 

VCheng

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Neither army chief nor PM. Its the people of Pakistan ... And clearly army chief is working interest of people of Pakistan by bringing criminals at the top position.

Regardless of what everyone nobly claims, no one - absolutely no one - gives an eff about the people of Pakistan. This is the the sad but blunt truth, like it or not.
 
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The Accountant

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Regardless of what everyone nobly claims, no one - absolutely no one - gives an eff about the people of Pakistan. This is the the sad but blunt truth, like it or not.
U yourself dont care about people.

Contrary to my reply that people of Pakistan are important and vast majority is with him. He is the only person having significant support in all people provinces of pakistan but still u r against him. U yourself supporting establishment against wishes of people of Pakistan so you are making allegation that everyone thinks like you ...

Sorry my friend everyone dont think like you and if you want to other to be fair then be fair yourself otherwise your opinion will be of no worth atleast for me.
 

VCheng

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Answer for importance is obviously PM, but the other question is who is more powerful with no checks and balances: COAS.

Without making any judgements as to what is right or wrong, one can only observe that this is a uniquely Pakistani system that is implemented here. After all, every country decides for itself its governance system.

(As PMIK learned for himself, too, just as every other PM does at some point or another. :D )
 
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Dalit

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People who come on the shoulders of army, go with their boots. There are no exception to this rule in Pakistan and this is politics of Pakistan.

It is nasty politics. An army has no place in politics.

What an unstable country where its inhabitants do not shy away from admitting that its army rules over the rest. This admission only should give people food for throught.
 

The Accountant

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Without making any judgements as to what is right or wrong, one can only observe that this is a uniquely Pakistani system that is implemented here. After all, every country decides for itself its governance system.

(As PMIK learned for himself, too, just as every other PM does at some point or another. :D )
But where is it leading us ? For the past 4 decades we r in a continous declining phase ... They have the power then they r responsible ...
 

Dual Wielder

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But where is it leading us ? For the past 4 decades we r in a continous declining phase ... They have the power then they r responsible ...

Your wasting your time on that troll, wants nothing more for Pakistan to go bankrupt in fact is openly campaigning for it, even sees people of Pakistan as cannon fodder for countries like USA to maul, step over and further themselves. You better off trying to reason with a RSS Bhakt and telling the latter to love Pakistan instead.. *
 
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Imran Khan did not learn that living in Britain surely. Never understood why he talks about his time in Britain. Waste of time honestly.
The problem is Pakistan needs a strong army. Not for defending the frontiers at which they are useless but more in keeping the federation intact. Pakistan is not a country. It is a mob living in the same piece of ground. Only the army can keep this mob in order.

In other countries the have civil society which acts as the medium. The intelligentsia, the media, the professional class, the corporate sector etc. This exists in India and this 'medium' unites that huge multi-ethnic state under the tag 'Indian'.

In Pakistan there is no such unifying group - or there is but it's tiny and does not extend everywhere. Instead we have lots of differant local mediums like -

  • PML-N - Central Punjab
  • PPP - Interior Sindh
  • MQM -Urban Karachi Mohajir
  • ANP - Pakhtun

then there are lots of religious parrties split along the the divides including shiscm found along the Shia/Sunni branches.

There is no strong overaeching medium that connects Gilgit with Karachi, Quetta with Lahore, Torkham with Sukker, Gwadar with Multan etc.

The nearest thing that we see emerging is PTI but it also is not sufficiuently entrenched and if it fails the present tussle it will wither back into KPK.

Pakistan is a jig saw without glue. The army is the only institution that has reach in every corner of Pakistan even if that often is muscle and not by choice.

Imran Khan is aware of this. Which is why you often see he is conflicted. He does not want to unravel the army and then when the mob that is Pakistan explodes outwards there will nobody to control the mess and chaos.

Result the country will go to fiefdoms ran by differant factions with open civil war where they clash. You can see this in Balochistan. You would see this in Sindh where interior Sindh and urban Sindh would slug it out. FATA gain would boil over etc.

In this scenario India would not invade Pakistan but most likely mop up Azad Kashmir.
 

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