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Who gets to be Caliph?

The SC

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I do not really get what you mean. You previously said that you "have problem" with them. Just answer this simple question: Why would you "have problem" with them if they do not harm you in any way? Do you "have problem" with Hindus in pakistan who worship idols?

Seriously, get rid off this intolerant attitude. The Quran only allows you to fight back if they physically harm you and strictly forbids any form of transgression. As I see it, whatever beliefs they may have, they are not harming you physically, so it is preposterous that you "have problem" with them.

There are other means to harm someone, and Koran by no means restricts 'Harming' to violent acts; it can be through deceit and lies to disfigure your reputation, or by some kind of Fitna, or by stealing your property, or by getting involved in you private life or business, or by corruption, or by immorality, or by interfering in you way of life completely including your religion...

It works for some countries. Not all. However, US democratic model is very good.

The Us democratic model goes overboard when it comes to the moral values pursued by Muslims.
It is a good system since it emulate the true Islamic model of democracy, minus the ethics part.
 

The SC

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This is not the case. Obama pulled off Libyan war effort unilaterally.
.

Any video of Barak Obama fighting in Libya, or of any American troops.


US President is the most powerful man in the world

Every president of every country considers himself the most powerful man on earth.:laugh:

I do consider him as one of the most eloquent men in the world, and certainly THE most in the US.:laugh:
 

The SC

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Please guys, stop talking about sects in Islam there are no such things like sects in Islam, these are mathahibs, or ways to run your life as a Muslim with the common denominator as the full fledged Islam and its 5 fara'ids, no one Madhab is better than another, but only it it bifurcates from the main din than it becomes a sect and should not be allowed according to Islam.
 

The SC

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To each his own.

Koran is the true source of religion, Hadith is about emulating the behaviour of the prophet a.s.s .
Since the prophet a.s.s is the chosen one and the best (Although not perfect, perfection is reserved for God alone and I might add his words in the Koran) amongst his pairs, his sayings and deeds are recommended to be followed by all the Muslims. Hadith is very complicated and yet simple, because the wordings from the reporters can be confusing some time and it is subject to interpretations, even Koran doesn't escape this phenomenon of human nature, it is even encouraged to inquire further to better understand the true sense and meaning of the words and sentences and paragraphs and whole meanings of ayat put in the right context.
The main thing is, there are different depth of meanings and consequently understandings of the texts, depending on one's level of education and knowledge of sciences and logic.
 

King Solomon

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Koran is the true source of religion, Hadith is about emulating the behaviour of the prophet a.s.s .
Since the prophet a.s.s is the chosen one and the best (Although not perfect, perfection is reserved for God alone and I might add his words in the Koran) amongst his pairs, his sayings and deeds are recommended to be followed by all the Muslims. Hadith is very complicated and yet simple, because the wordings from the reporters can be confusing some time and it is subject to interpretations, even Koran doesn't escape this phenomenon of human nature, it is even encouraged to inquire further to better understand the true sense and meaning of the words and sentences and paragraphs and whole meanings of ayat put in the right context.
The main thing is, there are different depth of meanings and consequently understandings of the texts, depending on one's level of education and knowledge of sciences and logic.

I've got my reasons, from the Koran itself, but I don't want to get involved into any religious debate in the forum.
 

The SC

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I've got my reasons, from the Koran itself, but I don't want to get involved into any religious debate in the forum.

It wasn't meant specifically for you S-19, it was in general, for everyone to better understand who gets to be Caliph and what it implies in terms of understanding the religion of Islam.
So in this thread we are somehow invited and compelled to talk about religion, since the caliph is the highest authority of the Muslim Ummah.
 

King Solomon

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and when i spoke about inheritance i meant when children inherit from their parents.

I just saw this part. Let me make the Quran clear about this.

Firstly, it is instructed to write a will before anyone dies. If someone wishes to give daughters twice their property than to sons, no problem with that at all.

2:180
It is decreed that when death approaches, you shall write a will for the benefit of the parents and relatives, equitably. This is a duty upon the righteous.

This verse which mentions about God's decree in inheritance if no will is written (since permission to write a will and adhering to it is given explicitly above). This is God's wisdom as the woman inheritor is likely to be residing with her husband (so needs less). But again, this is in case the deceased has not written any will since the permission and validity of writing will and adhering to it is given above.

4:11
God decrees a will for the benefit of your children; the male gets twice the share of the female.* If the inheritors are only women, more than two, they get two-thirds of what is bequeathed. If only one daughter is left, she gets one-half. The parents of the deceased get one-sixth of the inheritance each, if the deceased has left any children. If he left no children, and his parents are the only inheritors, the mother gets one-third. If he has siblings, then the mother gets one-sixth. All this, after fulfilling any will* the deceased has left, and after paying off all debts. When it comes to your parents and your children, you do not know which of them is really the best to you and the most beneficial. This is God's law. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.

Both men and women gets a share of inheritance:

4:7
The men get a share of what the parents and the relatives leave behind. The women too shall get a share of what the parents and relatives leave behind. Whether it is a small or a large inheritance, (the women must get) a definite share.

Do not inherit women by compulsion.

O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness and equity. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good. 4:19

I hope everything is clear about inheritance now.

It wasn't meant specifically for you S-19, it was in general, for everyone to better understand who gets to be Caliph and what it implies in terms of understanding the religion of Islam.
So in this thread we are somehow invited and compelled to talk about religion, since the caliph is the highest authority of the Muslim Ummah.

Let alone the Ummah, nobody is the highest authority for anyone - from labourers to Caliph's, other than God himself.
 

raptor22

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hello there ...

First of all I want to point out that what I'm gonna say is my opinion and I do respect the other sects and their followers ,

I'm shie and I believe in Allah and his prophet Mohammad Mostafa (s) and holly Quran as you guys do .
we believe that that prophet of Islam determined the khalipe(who had to lead umma after him) in his life .
you know from Adam till him God had been always sending a chosen person among people to guide them I mean prophets .
I do know our prophet was the last prophet as it's written in Quran but my question is what happened to God ? why after our prophet he didn't send anyone ? isn't odd to you ? can you imagine a class without teacher ?

I think as I said God has done it , surly not a new prophet but a holly man to guide people .



Ghadire Khom :

O people, Allah the Most Kind the Omniscient has told me that no apostle lives to more than half the age of him who had preceded him. I think I am about to be called (die) and thus I must respond. I am responsible and you are responsible, then what do you say?’ They said, ‘We witness that you have informed, advised and striven. May Allah bless you.’ He said, ‘Do you not bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and Apostle, and that His Heaven is true, His Hell is true, death is true, the Resurrection after death is true, that there is no doubt that the Day of Judgment will come, and that Allah will resurrect the dead from their graves?’ They said, ‘Yes, we bear witness’. He said, ‘O Allah, bear witness.’ Then he said, ‘O people, Allah is my Lord and I am the lord of the believers. I am worthier of believers than themselves. Of whomsoever I had been Master (Mawla), Ali here is to be his Master. O Allah, be a supporter of whoever supports him (Ali) and an enemy of whoever opposes him.

Then he said,

‘O people, I will go ahead of you and you will arrive at my Pond (in Heaven) which is wider than the distance between Basra and San’a. It has receptacles as numerous as the stars, and two cups of gold and two of silver. I will ask you about the two weighty things that I have left for you when you come to me to see how you dealt with them. The greater weighty thing is Allah’s book—the Holy Qur’an. One end is in Allah’s hand and the other is in your hands. Keep it and you will not deviate. That other weighty thing is my family (Ahl al-Bayt) and my descendents. The Most Kind the Omniscient had told me that both of them, would not separate until they come to my Pond.


In Arabic :


يوم غدير خم :
كنا مع رسول الله في سفر فنزلنا بغدير خم، فنودي فينا الصلاة جامعة، وكُسح لرسول الله تحت شجرتين فصلى الظهر واخذ بيد علي (رضي الله عنه) فقال : " ألستم تعلمون أني أولى بالمؤمنين من أنفسهم " ؟

قالوا : بلى. فاخذ بيد علي فقال : " من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه، اللهم والِ من والاه وعادِ من عاداه ". فلقيه عمر بعد ذلك فقال له : هنيئا يا ابن أبي طالب أصبحت وأمسيت مولى كل مؤمن ومؤمنة

And after that Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) received this verse :

Al-Mā'idah - verse 3 :

This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion.

اليوم ييس الذين كفروا من دينكم فلا تخشوهم واخشون اليوم اكملت لكم دينكم واتممت عليكم نعمتي ورضيت لكم الاسلام دينا

the prophet of Islam :

«سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللّهِ (ص) یَقُولُ لایَزالُ الاِسلامُ عَزیزاً اِلی اِثْنی عَشَرَ خَلیفَهً – ثُمَّ قالَ كَلِمَهً لَمْ اَفْهَمْها! فَقُلْتُ لاَبی ما قالَ؟ فَقالَ كُلُهُمْ مِنْ قُریْشٍ!



lol i heard they believe he is hiding in a mountain or tunnel or something waiting for the right time to emerge.

you gotta kidding me in the mountain or tunnel ? where did you hear that ?


 
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King Solomon

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hello there ...

First of all I want to point out that what I'm gonna say is my opinion and I do respect the other sects and their followers ,

I'm shie and I believe in Allah and his prophet Mohammad Mostafa (s) and holly Quran as you guys do .
we believe that that prophet of Islam determined the khalipe(who had to lead umma after him) in his life .
you know from Adam till him God had been always sending a chosen person among people to guide them I mean prophets .
I do know our prophet was the last prophet as it's written in Quran but my question is what happened to God ? why after our prophet he didn't send anyone ? isn't odd to you ? can you imagine a class without teacher ?

I think as I said God has done it , surly not a new prophet but a holly man to guide people .



Ghadire Khom :




In Arabic :



And after that Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) received this verse :

Al-Mā'idah - verse 3 :





the prophet of Islam :


First of all thanks for posting. I agree with some Shia views on history. Yes it is true that some verses in Quran indicate that Prophet Mohammad is not the final messenger, but he is the final prophet. We very often fail to distinguish. A prophet is one upon whom a scripture (Quran, Torah) etc are revealed. But not upon messengers.

But what do shia islam thinks about this? Are they waiting for another messenger or something? Do they consider mahdi as prophet?
 

IbnAlwaled

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First of all thanks for posting. I agree with some Shia views on history. Yes it is true that some verses in Quran indicate that Prophet Mohammad is not the final messenger, but he is the final prophet. We very often fail to distinguish. A prophet is one upon whom a scripture (Quran, Torah) etc are revealed. But not upon messengers.

But what do shia islam thinks about this? Are they waiting for another messenger or something? Do they consider mahdi as prophet?
I have to say that to Sunnis this is very blasphemous, and would be considered apostasy. Isn't that why Ahmadis were considered non Muslim?
 

raptor22

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No , there is a misunderstanding , Shie doesn't say Mahdi is a prophet or a messenger actually he is an Imam . like his fathers,


And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ.​


the prophet of islam :
«المهدي من ولدي اسمه اسمي و كنيته كنيتي . اشبه الناس بي خَلقا و خُلقا . تكون به غيبة و حيرة تضل فيها الامم. ثم يقبل كالشهاب الثاقب يملاها عدلا و قسطا كما ملئت جورا و ظلما»​

and this one :

مَهْدىُّ اُمَّتِى الَّذى یَمْلاَُ الاَْرْضَ قِسْطا وَ عَدْلاً كَما مُلِئَتْ جَوْرا وَ ظُلْما؛​
 

King Solomon

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I have to say that to Sunnis this is very blasphemous, and would be considered apostasy. Isn't that why Ahmadis were considered non Muslim?

Too often we are quick to blame others for blasphemy. I don't know what ahmadis believe but many shias believe so. But the evidences are there that Mohammad was the final Prophet, but not necessarily the final messenger. God may send messengers after him to revive his religion but the scripture (Quran), however, is the final revealed by the final Prophet.

eg. This verse is assumed by some to be so:

3:81
God took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

Some think this refers to Imam Mahdi, like many Shias.
 

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