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Who gets to be Caliph?

King Solomon

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The quran/hadith does not allow for democracy, secularism or 'equal rights' for men and women in the way that the west practices it.

In an Islamic state the government is not really elected by the people so it (by definition) is a dictatorship because they enforce onto the people the Islamic shariah - whether they like it or not.

in terms of secularism the state is not secular its islamic, non muslims are allowed to practice their faith and have other freedoms like not having to fight for the country e.c.t But this is still not secularism as you see in the west so i dont know what your going on about.

In terms of equal rights for men and women, Islam dosent really believe in 100% equal rights for men and women - instead men have rights over women in some cases and then women have rights over men in some circumstances.

A democratic government is the opposite of an Islamic state, so how are they comparable?

You are very much deviant from the teachings of the Quran and assume things unnecessarily. I would advise you to stop listening to extremist scholars and read the Quran yourself to see if these values are compatible with Quran or not.
 

somebozo

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If we hang these nonsense scholars and just follow islam by quran it will solve a lot of problems for the Muslim world..the scholars have done historically is to complicate religion and erect barriers between religion and common man to create their own bread hunting means and when they were not busy in complicating religion they went into pimping the ummah to the infidels..
 

chitti

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If we hang these nonsense scholars and just follow islam by quran it will solve a lot of problems for the Muslim world..the scholars have done historically is to complicate religion and erect barriers between religion and common man to create their own bread hunting means and when they were not busy in complicating religion they went into pimping the ummah to the infidels..

the reason you cant follow quran is that.. its not a very clear book for most to follow thats why there are a 101 interpretations.
 

King Solomon

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the reason you cant follow quran is that.. its not a very clear book for most to follow thats why there are a 101 interpretations.

"The Quran is easy to understand and remember", this is what God declares. Anyway, I don't think if you have read the quran yourself before commenting here. I'd suggest reading Abdul haleem's or sahih international translations.
 

IbnAlwaled

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I do not label all scholars are bad. But it is extremely difficult to find someone who is tolerant on others and at the same time acknowledges that what he/she says may not be right. Most scholars insist it is "only they who are right" and according to me, this thinking is completely contradictory to the primary principle of humbleness in Quran.
Al-Sha'afi the founder of one of the four Sunni schools of Fiqh famously said " What I say is true but could be wrong, what you say is wrong but could be true"
He also said in a poem "if love of AL Albayt makes you a rafidhi(shia) then let all people bare witness that I am a rafidhi":eek:
 

ali786

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You are very much deviant from the teachings of the Quran and assume things unnecessarily. I would advise you to stop listening to extremist scholars and read the Quran yourself to see if these values are compatible with Quran or not.

so in islam do men and women have equal inheritance rights? dont you need more women witnesses then men? e.c.t

Men and women in islam dont have equal rights like in the west, rather they have certien rights over each other - like a husband must use his wealth on this family but a wife who earns gets to keep 100% of it. Also when it come to inheritance a man gets more then a women.

This is what islam says right?? Am i wrong??? if so correct me?

also Ive got a question for you, do you follow hadiths aswell or just the quran on its own?
 

IbnAlwaled

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also Ive got a question for you, do you follow hadiths aswell or just the quran on its own?
Its instructed in the Qur'an itself to follow the teaching prophet(pbuh) but the problem is to discern which hadiths are authentic.
Personally(although I am not remotely qualified) I think too much credibility is given too "Ahad" Hadiths(single line transmission) even if they are in Bukhari or Muslim, since I find it difficult to base my religion on a single person no matter how many people say he is reliable, I never met the the guy personally and and its quite possible his memory betrayed him.
 

ali786

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Its instructed in the Qur'an itself to follow the teaching prophet(pbuh) but the problem is to discern which hadiths are authentic.
Personally(although I am not remotly qualiifed) I think too much credibility is given too "Ahad" Hadiths(single line transmission) even if they are in Bukhari or Muslim, since I find it difficult to base my religion on a single person no matter how many people say he is reliable, I never met the the guy personally and and its quite possible his memory betrayed him.

arnt you a saudi arab? i thought all you guys ever went on about was quran and sunnah. (im refering to salafis)

BTW not that im saying they are wrong in saying that, as im no expert in islam.
 

King Solomon

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so in islam do men and women have equal inheritance rights? dont you need more women witnesses then men? e.c.t

Men and women in islam dont have equal rights like in the west, rather they have certien rights over each other - like a husband must use his wealth on this family but a wife who earns gets to keep 100% of it. Also when it come to inheritance a man gets more then a women.

This is what islam says right?? Am i wrong??? if so correct me?

also Ive got a question for you, do you follow hadiths aswell or just the quran on its own?

The problem is, when I say equal "right", you take it literally. There are a few exceptions but they are not like you people commonly assume (not allowed to work, drive, go out, play etc). Of course there are biological differences between men and women. Can you give birth to baby being male? If not, why do you think "equality" has to have a literal meaning?

Yes I follow complementary hadiths but I do not elevate Hadiths to the status of Quran. I do not assume them as law-makers or binding for anyone.

About inheritance:

O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness and equity. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good. 4:19

Their Lord has answered them: 'I will not allow the deeds of any one of you to be lost, whether you are male or female, each is like the other.' (Qur'an 3:193-195)
 

ali786

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The problem is, when I say equal "right", you take it literally. There are a few exceptions but they are not like you people commonly assume (not allowed to work, drive, go out, play etc). Of course there are biological differences between men and women. Can you give birth to baby being male? If not, why do you think "equality" has to have a literal meaning?

Yes I follow complementary hadiths but I do not elevate Hadiths to the status of Quran. I do not assume them as law-makers or binding for anyone.

About inheritance:

lol you kept on going on about the west so i assumed you meant the wests interpretation because west belive in equal rights in all matters 100%.

And no im not the people that say women arnt allowed to go out, get educated e.c.t women arnt animals who need locking up!

and when i spoke about inheritance i meant when children inherit from their parents.
 

ali786

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as I see and it appears we finally come eye to eye in one issue , except that he won't come he is among us right now . God has never left the people without a chosen man . why should he do now?

your shia right? thats what they believe?

If im not mistaken you guys believe he is hiding somewhere getting ready to emerge right?
 

King Solomon

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lol you kept on going on about the west so i assumed you meant the wests interpretation because west belive in equal rights in all matters 100%.

And no im not the people that say women arnt allowed to go out, get educated e.c.t women arnt animals who need locking up!

and when i spoke about inheritance i meant when children inherit from their parents.

I guess its clear then.

as I see and it appears we finally come eye to eye in one issue , except that he won't come he is among us right now . God has never left the people without a chosen man . why should he do now?

Based on my study of end time prophecy-related hadiths, I deciphered that the "mahdi" character will be the one to revive the Islamic moral values throughout the world.

your shia right? thats what they believe?

If im not mistaken you guys believe he is hiding somewhere getting ready to emerge right?

Twelver shias believe that there are 12 Mahdis and the prophet named them in his last "will". The last Mahdi has disappeared and in "occultation" and will appear again to save the world from injustice.
 

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