Some of you here really are completely deluded. Pakistan is not in the same conversation as India or Turkey. Turkey actually has an extensive history of developing aircraft subcomponents whether its composite parts for Airbus or building subcomponents for GE. It License produces the F110 engine in Turkey for the F-16. It was part of the F-35 program, building out parts for the body of the aircraft(as part of a global supply chain) which were then transferred to the US for assembly. It builds its own air to air missiles, its own AESA radar, and avionics. WTF has Pakistan built on its own with regards to aerospace? Do you have your own engine development project? no. Do you have your own radar development project? no. EOTS sensors? no. and sort of avionics development like litening PODS? no. Did Pakistan build its own air to air missiles? no. Then WTF did you actually build on your own without the Chinese? 50-50 partnership my ***. I don't mean to disrespect the country, btw, but some of you people here on the thread trying to make it seem like the JF-17 partnership project was like some Eurofighter or Tornado partnership development the way the UK and Germany build those platforms is comical.
Like do you people look in the mirror at all? Pakistan is broke, the most it does license produce Chinese weapons. It neither has the technological capacity nor the money to build projects of this nature. Its GDP is lower than Israel's, hell its lower than Bangladesh's GDP, lol, get a grip. Understand your own shortcomings and weaknesses.
This sort of stuff about building 5th gen fighters, or really a capability to build any 4th gen fighter, is about as deluded as those dumb Indians talking about SUPA POWAR 2020 which they can't seem to build enough toilets to shit in.
In case you haven't noticed, your rant is exactly what others are saying in this thread, including me. By the way, your little speech about Turkey, can you specify exactly what it designed and developed for the Viper or the F-35? For the umpteenth time, license production is not the same as designing and developing, something which you're keen to point out about Pakistan but seem to forget about Turkey and india. Yes, yes, I know on a relative scale Pakistan is far far behind both of those, but Turkey nor india can design and develop a modern high performance engine, for example.
Not sure if you can box Pakistan's current state with Turkey or even India (although turkey is much, much further ahead of India).
but here are your own words:
the difference here - being pointed out to you (and you already know this as well - as evidenced by your own words above) is that:
- PAC and Pakistan should did not get involved in JF-17 with China (and since you brought turkey/India, comparing to India's involvement in development work)
- this has not created much of a base for taking any learnings further - at best you can figure out better operations management of a production line (unless PAC has some serious joint development efforts under its belt)
- Turkey is pretty far ahead of India so not even comparing that here
all need assistance maybe - but how much assistance do each of these countries need (given that you were comparing the 3 countries) - Pakistan is certainly in need of more assistance.
the good news, however is that you have one country that can seriously help you out (china) while that amount of support isnt available to either turkey and much less to India
the not so good news is, Pakistan needs to invest a lot more time and effort to gain the expertise
Yes, exactly, like I've said above. Turkey sure is far ahead of india, but even Turkey needs to ask BAE and Rolls Royce to help it with its TFX, so where does that leave india with its lofty ambitions, let alone Pakistan?
Side note: because of the lack of details from the PAF, I think people have really warped expectations. What were people expectations after 5 years? A flying prototype? The actual institutions and facilities haven't even been built yet. To me at least, the Azm project was simply to establish the relevant human capital and R&D infrastructure, rather than rolling out a completed product in 10 years time.
Moreover, for an indigenous project to make any viable sense, there needs to be a significant order of airframes to achieve economies of scale. This is the main problem that plagues not just the PAF's wild fantasies, but also the TFX, the indians, as well as the KFX/Indonesian project. The JF-17 project made sense from that point of view given the sizeable numbers so far ordered, and projected, which could reach around 200-250 airframes, so it made sense for the PAF to invest in its infrastructure. But given how costly fifth gen airframes cost, not to mention associated support, the numbers are much lower in the first place. Only the likes of China and the US are in any real position to design, develop, and produce fifth gen types in sizeable numbers. Even the Russians were struggling before the war. For the likes of Turkey, india, Korea, Pakistan, etc, it doesn't really make much sense to invest in a project that will lead to around 100 airframes, at most if that. Far better either to pool resources, like the Korean/Indonesians have done (even that is troubled) or the F-35 consortium, or simply acquire an off the shelf solution.