• Saturday, September 22, 2018

What happened in Afghanistan? Pakistani take

Discussion in 'Strategic & Foreign Affairs' started by ziaulislam, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. ziaulislam

    ziaulislam SENIOR MEMBER

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  2. khansaheeb

    khansaheeb SENIOR MEMBER

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    Nawaz Sharif made us the proxy. I remember (back in 1998 ?) I was having a nice holiday in Malir Cannt when suddenly I heard the news Nawaz Sharif had allowed a corridor for Cruise missiles and B52s to bomb the Taliban. That was a stupid mistake and it was obvious that Nawaz Sharif (and his proxies) were frightened for all that the Taliban stood for and were scared out of their wits. We should have remained neutral and done then what we are doing now, just seal the border and let the Afghans sort it out themselves. Because of this act of poodleness we delayed the inevitable and in the process paid in lives of thousands of our soldiers and civilians and countless Afghans and lost billions in money and slowed the development of a generation. We were never given a clear answer as to what the Americans were doing in Afghanistan and what their long term game plan was, it was all blanketed in the rhetoric of 9/11 and terrorism. Our generals knew the game because they were wined and dined on the US aircraft carriers and ships in the Arabian sea and discussed the plans. We need to have a public commission to investigate all that went on and find out the truth as to how and why we were led into this colossal misadventure that ground our highways to the dirt and left our people with load shedding.
     
  3. ziaulislam

    ziaulislam SENIOR MEMBER

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    mess happened in 1990s when we allowed all alqeda to take over FATA, we refused to give FATA rights or reforms(till today pMLN is opposing it)

    people claim oh, our decision was wrong in 1980s, i disagree..it was right to create and support anti soviet movement, because soviet would have swallowed Pakistan like it did Poland and many European countries, it was a real threat, by dislodging an afghan govt bringing a communist revolution there, what make people think they wouldnt have done it in pakistan?

    we lost direction in 90s both econmically and poltically due to night mare created by benazir and nawaz..which people ignored and voted back for benezair in 2008 and nawaz in 2013..the 2002-2008 was fresh breath for our GDP which doubled, exports "tripled" and than decreased for last 5 years.

    PML N claim motor ways but honestly more motor ways were built between 2002-2008

    I am not claiming musharraf was good, i am just indicating how bad nawaz and PPPP were...

    looking at foreign policy it has been diasator, noboy was claiming pakistan was dubious before PPPP took over
     
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  4. TMA

    TMA SENIOR MEMBER

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    But didn't FATA want to be autonomous ... ?
     
  5. ziaulislam

    ziaulislam SENIOR MEMBER

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    yup couple of high end smuggling class elite wanted that

    others have begged, protested, cried but nobody listens


    you do know that the first time there allowed to vote was by amendment made by care taker govt...otherwise the likes of PMLN PPPP didnt even allow that
     
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  6. TMA

    TMA SENIOR MEMBER

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    wasn't that the agreement when they joined Pakistan?
     
  7. ziaulislam

    ziaulislam SENIOR MEMBER

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    no body asked them..it was mostly some high end jirga
    FATA people always wanted reforms
     
  8. xyxmt

    xyxmt ELITE MEMBER

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    and I thought I have heard it all
     
  9. Thəorətic Muslim

    Thəorətic Muslim SENIOR MEMBER

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    What were you going to do shoot them down?

    Destroy the USN ship that fired them?

    Miss out on making the Babur?
     
  10. khansaheeb

    khansaheeb SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yeh, Did USA attack a nuclear North Korea?
     
  11. Zulfiqar1919

    Zulfiqar1919 BANNED

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    Taliban are winning the civil war despite all the odds stacked against them. Now the U.S. and Ghani are begging them to join a peace process. I would advise the Taliban to keep the pressure on Kabul and keep fighting, but they have got to stop terrorist attacks on civilians (if they were indeed responsible for the recent string of bombings in Kabul). Taliban must continue to fight conventionally and with nobility. They must not copy Daesh. Taliban have proven to be pragmatic in keeping channels of diplomacy and co-operation open with Russia, Iran and of course Pakistan. They should continue to persuade those powers that they can absolutely crush their foes if given more sophisticated weapons and drive out the Americans and their pathetic European allies with impunity. Finally, I would advise Taliban to continue to reach out to the other ethnic groups like Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazara and transcend their Pashtun base. Taliban should exploit the current political tensions within the Kabul government to their advantage and humiliate Ghani even further.
     
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  12. khansaheeb

    khansaheeb SENIOR MEMBER

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    Maybe that was the goal , to establish a base for destabalasing Pakistan through Baluchistan? But it seems to have backfired:-

    US supports Pakistan’s integrity: Wells
    Anwar IqbalUpdated March 11, 2018
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    WASHINGTON: The United States has assured Pakistan that it firmly supports the country’s territorial integrity and opposes Baloch insurgents and other groups that are a threat to the state.

    Alice Wells, who heads the State Department’s bureau for South and Central Asia, also reassured Islamabad that US would not allow the use of Afghan territory against Pakistan.

    Speaking at the US Institute of Peace, Washington, on Friday, Ms Wells emphasised the need for Pakistan to bring pressure on the Taliban to join the Afghan reconciliation process and to disrupt the annual spring offensive by these insurgents.

    “That does not imply that we would support or think that there’s any manipulation of Afghanistan so that it can be used against Pakistan,” she said. “We firmly support Pakistan’s territorial integrity. We do not support the Baloch insurgents or the threat of irredentism against Pakistan.”

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    State Department official says Washington opposes Baloch insurgents

    The stress on Balochistan is particularly significant because the question she was responding to had not mentioned Balochistan or the Baloch insurgency. But Pakistan’s Foreign Secretary Tehmina Janjua — who held two key meetings with senior US officials in Washington on Thursday — did mention this issue in her remarks to the Pakistani media.

    Ms Janjua also accused India of using the Afghan territory for stirring troubles in Balochistan.

    Ms Wells also attended the Pakistani foreign secretary’s meeting with US Undersecretary of State John Sullivan.

    On Thursday evening, Ms Janjua had another meeting with Deputy National Security Adviser Nadia Schadlow and Gen Joseph Votel, who heads the US Central Command.

    Ms Wells, while assuring Pakistan of continued US support against insurgency, underlined the need for a similar action from Islamabad.

    “And certainly, our message is that any terrorist group threatening any country in the region has to be opposed,” she said. “So, we oppose groups that are targeting Pakistan. We oppose, of course, groups that are targeting Afghanistan.”

    Ms Wells recalled that hours before Ms Janjua’s meetings in Washington, the US Justice Department had announced millions of dollars of rewards for information leading to the arrest of three Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan’s leaders involved in terrorist attacks inside Pakistan.

    But she complained that Washington had not yet seen “the sustained and decisive” actions it would like to see Pakistan take against the Taliban. “We would certainly like to see steps taken that make it harder for the Taliban to plan for spring offensive, to disrupt their ability to meet and to lay out this operational plan for the next year,” she said.

    Ms Wells said that while Pakistan had recently taken positive measures, “we believe that Pakistan really can play a much more important and critical role in shaping Taliban behaviour or incentives for undertaking negotiations.”

    Ms Wells acknowledged that Pakistan too had interests that “it wants to ensure are met during the course of the stabilisation of Afghanistan, which we take seriously. And so, the dialogue that we have with Pakistan, whether it’s through military channels or through civilian channels, seeks to address these core concerns.”

    The US official warned countries interested in seeking a peaceful resolution of the Afghan dispute, not to use proxies for gaining influence.

    “Seeing an enemy of an enemy as a friend and hedging by employing the Taliban and legitimising the Taliban as a military force postpones the day when we can actually get to a negotiating table and achieve reconciliation in Afghanistan,” she said.

    Responding to a question about how the US could persuade Pakistan to support its efforts in Afghanistan, Ms Well said: “We have calibrated our relationship with Pakistan in a very different way than other administrations. We’ve gone much further and underscored the importance and the centrality of this issue to our ability to expand relations with Pakistan.”

    To achieve this objective, the US was using both civilian and military channels, she added. “You see an intensive dialogue by Gen Votel with his counterparts. By Secretary (of State Rex) Tillerson and Secretary (of Defence James) Mattis and that will continue,” she said.

    Published in Dawn, March 11th, 2018
     
  13. shahbaz baig

    shahbaz baig SENIOR MEMBER

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    Pakistan should offer to US to join china and russia to invest in different projects and infrastructure of the region. Afghan taliban are also willing to do this for afghan prosperity. It's a Golden opportunity for us to combine the interest of world powers in our region for prosperity. So we will have no fear of proxy wars in future.
    US, Russia, china and pakistan should sign MoUs with mutual understanding then not only US but china, pakistan, iran and russia can happily pressurize afghan taliban to accept US presence in afghanistan with a timeframe agreement.
    And no country would have any fear about proxy war.
     
  14. khansaheeb

    khansaheeb SENIOR MEMBER

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    More like inviting a disaster like that befell Iraq and Syria, not thanks.
     
  15. Kabira

    Kabira ELITE MEMBER

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    wth did I just read. Nawaz had nothing to do with Afghan war.

    1. Still many buffons believe lie of Zia who sold us that Soviets would eventually take over Pakistan. For one Soviets were invited by commie afghani gov to restore order. Pakistan in coming years will provoke soviets several times yet they never crossed border. Only afghani terrorists crossed after USA invasion of 9/11.

    That was good time to fence and seal the border, restrict afghanis in to camps for few years till soviets restore order.

    40 years later all we got is afghani terrorists and gun culture. Now firing in wedding is considered part of the culture, thanks Zia.