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What do you think of Binkov's Battlegrounds opinion on Chinese Fighter Aircraft?

YeBeWarned

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PAF be like...
1643451079403.png
 

That Guy

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Pakistan has 150+
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Nigeria 3

What is exactly meant by NO ONE?
Watch the video, it'll make more sense when you do.

He gives valid reasons as well.

K-8, L-15, JL-9, JF-17, J-7 and now J-10C do not exist?
Watch the video.

Pakistan, Burma, Nigeria not count?

JF-17 also in contention in Azerbaijan and Argentina.

Pakistan has also bought J10.

Thing is weapons sales of top line fighter aircraft is a limited market and a politically biased market.
Watch the video

Seriously, all of you are commenting without watching the damn video. He explains and addresses literally all of this.
 

dBSPL

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This subject cannot be discussed only on the basis of the basic specs written in wikipedia. It is a multidimensional subject and therefore requires a lot of data from different fields to produce an accurate analysis.

1. Financing. As an example, France and Italy etc. sell frigates on a 20-year loan. Their own banks also cover the financial secure of the frigate sold by their own shipyards. They have a very serious legal infrastructure and experience in this regard, so this shows itself as a export success recently.

2. Industry cooperation. The most common example in this type of sales is off-set applications. In other words, a certain part work is given to the industry of the buyer country or asupported by purchase guarantee. In this way, even if the country imports, it also finds the opportunity to invest in its domestic industry.

3. Gathering diplomatic power. In the main conventional military systems (especially combat jets), the support of the exporter country is demanded, within the framework of importer's own political interests, so this affecting the purchase decision. The aircraft purchases made by Qatar in recent years are one of the good examples of this.

4. Downgrading variants on exported products. In particular, leading countries in the field of aviation may adopt a strict protectionist policy in the export of technological capabilities that form the basis of their competitiveness. The most common example of this is the trimming of capabilities of export items and the removing from sale of some subcomponents that provide critical capability boosts.

5. The existing infrastructure, logistics system and trained workforce of the importing country. Defense enthusiasts are often concerned with the declared initial cost of ownership of these systems. However, the main cost item in the operational life cycle is consumables, training and maintenance expenses. Moreover, the establishment of this organization from scratch, or the transition from one set of standards to another, must be subject to many years of preparation. Not only in transitioning from western systems to Russian origin systems, but even from a US aircraft to a European one, sometimes billions of dollars in infrastructure investment and many years of preparatory training and documentation are required.

Examples can be expanded.

Buying a fighter jet is too complex to be explained by the technical specs of the aircraft alone. In fact, technical details are only discussed for a few weeks in a plane purchase interview. Other financial and technical details are negotiated for months, even years.
 

Ali_Baba

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This subject cannot be discussed only on the basis of the basic specs written in wikipedia. It is a multidimensional subject and therefore requires a lot of data from different fields to produce an accurate analysis.

1. Financing. As an example, France and Italy etc. sell frigates on a 20-year loan. Their own banks also cover the financial secure of the frigate sold by their own shipyards. They have a very serious legal infrastructure and experience in this regard, so this shows itself as a export success recently.

2. Industry cooperation. The most common example in this type of sales is off-set applications. In other words, a certain part work is given to the industry of the buyer country or asupported by purchase guarantee. In this way, even if the country imports, it also finds the opportunity to invest in its domestic industry.

3. Gathering diplomatic power. In the main conventional military systems (especially combat jets), the support of the exporter country is demanded, within the framework of importer's own political interests, so this affecting the purchase decision. The aircraft purchases made by Qatar in recent years are one of the good examples of this.

4. Downgrading variants on exported products. In particular, leading countries in the field of aviation may adopt a strict protectionist policy in the export of technological capabilities that form the basis of their competitiveness. The most common example of this is the trimming of capabilities of export items and the removing from sale of some subcomponents that provide critical capability boosts.

5. The existing infrastructure, logistics system and trained workforce of the importing country. Defense enthusiasts are often concerned with the declared initial cost of ownership of these systems. However, the main cost item in the operational life cycle is consumables, training and maintenance expenses. Moreover, the establishment of this organization from scratch, or the transition from one set of standards to another, must be subject to many years of preparation. Not only in transitioning from western systems to Russian origin systems, but even from a US aircraft to a European one, sometimes billions of dollars in infrastructure investment and many years of preparatory training and documentation are required.

Examples can be expanded.

Buying a fighter jet is too complex to be explained by the technical specs of the aircraft alone. In fact, technical details are only discussed for a few weeks in a plane purchase interview. Other financial and technical details are negotiated for months, even years

6. Chinese business practices and prices of their products. Chinese want to charge "high western prices" on products with no historical performance pedigree that are severly downgraded products made using much lower paid Chinese salaries compared to the western salaries and associated manufacturing costs(ie massive chinese profiteering), or refusal to sell the latest of what they have in service. Also, the arrogant culture of - "no - that is good enough for you, now give us your money for our overpriced product and be grateful you are getting it and don't ask such silly questions about other products approach.... " compared with western suppliers who will sell you the same version that is current in their armed forces eg Rafale, EF2000, etc ..

ps - The only one with real restrictions is the USA - everyone else will pretty much sell you the full version of anything they have and without restrictions or comprimises.
 
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serenity

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So many complicated reasons. But already the loaded question is wrong. Chinese did and still do sell quite a lot of fighter aircraft. For modern ones that are in production.

J-15: naval only so only countries with carriers would even consider and this is a flanker which China told Russia it will not sell.

J-16: flanker not offered for sale.

J-10C: an export version only offered a few years ago and sold to Pakistan now.

J-20: too sensitive to sell.

So out of the four modern fighter aircraft only one is available for sale and that's J-10C. It has one order from Pakistan. It has only been on market for a few years.

Only tenders since J-10CE is offered on market has been ? Malaysia? Thailand? I don't know. I think Thais bought Gripen C well before J-10CE was on market.

JF-17 already sold quite a few and sold quite well. Nice work from both Pakistan and China sales teams.

Countries looking for advanced fighters nowadays would prefer to buy 5th gen which means they can't unless politically friendly with USA.

If poorer country wants 4.5 gen fighter, it's also huge amount of politics. No country since J-10CE on market has been tendering and looking to buy any 4.5gen fighter. Egypt had Su-35 and Rafale deal years before and both of those two are heavier type fighters than J-10CE.
 

Brainsucker

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Let's those aircraft bomb some countries and kill their children, and then those jet fighters will be sell like pop corn. Honestly, it is better for China not to get those jet fighters into battle proven status. Because we talk about war here, we talk about a potential of an event that can bring death to many people. So if those Chinese jet fighters are not battle proven, YET, then let it be.

Watch the video, it'll make more sense when you do.

He gives valid reasons as well.


Watch the video.


Watch the video

Seriously, all of you are commenting without watching the damn video. He explains and addresses literally all of this.

Nah, I don't need to. Why would we watch something that is not important, and let Binkov get more view in his content?
 
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FuturePAF

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So many complicated reasons. But already the loaded question is wrong. Chinese did and still do sell quite a lot of fighter aircraft. For modern ones that are in production.

J-15: naval only so only countries with carriers would even consider and this is a flanker which China told Russia it will not sell.

J-16: flanker not offered for sale.

J-10C: an export version only offered a few years ago and sold to Pakistan now.

J-20: too sensitive to sell.

So out of the four modern fighter aircraft only one is available for sale and that's J-10C. It has one order from Pakistan. It has only been on market for a few years.

Only tenders since J-10CE is offered on market has been ? Malaysia? Thailand? I don't know. I think Thais bought Gripen C well before J-10CE was on market.

JF-17 already sold quite a few and sold quite well. Nice work from both Pakistan and China sales teams.

Countries looking for advanced fighters nowadays would prefer to buy 5th gen which means they can't unless politically friendly with USA.

If poorer country wants 4.5 gen fighter, it's also huge amount of politics. No country since J-10CE on market has been tendering and looking to buy any 4.5gen fighter. Egypt had Su-35 and Rafale deal years before and both of those two are heavier type fighters than J-10CE.
The real test of sales is the new Russian Su-75 Checkmate. On paper, a capable platform at a relatively affordable price, with a long pedigree and a long list of Former Russian customers. Sales don’t seem to be coming for political reasons; CAATSA being just one.

Chinese technical capabilities are at least equal to the Russians but it will come down to China achieving a kind of political position in the global order where it’s weapons are seen as just as “stabilizing” as sales by western nations. The Chinese plus her Partners would have to make up a significant part of global GDP/influence for that to happen, sort of how the Soviets and her partners were in the 60s.
 

Ali_Baba

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Rafale Deal Has ‘Systemic Elements Of International Corruption’

As the world debates this bribery scandal, a Greek general, Konstantinos Floros receives the Medal of the Legion of Honour from France.
Greece recently took delivery of its first Rafales and ceremonially baptized them.

Clarification - i meant shoddy interms of the pricing/downgrading of capabilities - not bribery ( which is standard cost in all arms sales - direct or indirect and is a given .. ).
 

Meliodas

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Engines are the most important factor blocking Chinese sales. Also it's unfair to compare sales of Chinese a\c sales with those of USA and Russia, boom in their sales was majorly due to their conflict engagements where both parties weaponized their allies (pawns). Same is starting to take shape as Chinese and us work on India Pakistan
 

sheik

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Let's those aircraft bomb some countries and kill their children, and then those jet fighters will be sell like pop corn. Honestly, it is better for China not to get those jet fighters into battle proven status. Because we talk about war here, we talk about a potential of an event that can bring death to many people. So if those Chinese jet fighters are not battle proven, YET, then let it be.



Nah, I don't need to. Why would we watch something that is not important, and let Binkov get more view in his content?

Binkov? lol
Then I did a good choice not opening the video.
 

Imran Khan

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Let me add on to this, modern semi conductor issues... China is boycotted by global players in such high tech field. No TOT for chinna in this regard.
get an update man

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china was far behind in air force and they need a fully new airforce how can they sale mass jets when their own pilots flying J-7 and j8 even today ?
 

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