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Western allies cannot allow China to fraternise with the Taliban

LeGenD

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If it was such a black n white why to lose a 2.5 trillion war why not just sanction them from day 1
This have nothing to do with China.

I don't think Chinese will give a damn Fck about USA sanctions and UN sanctions will surely b vetoed unless there is concerns of terrorism...

Welcome another country to belt and road initiative... Welcome afghanistan
China is largest trading partner of USA as well. Think about it. Do not just type a response for the sake of it.

Afghan Taliban want to deal with all influential countries. Their statements have deeper context and meaning. They can see what is happening.

Americans also have billions of USD of Afghan cash reserves - frozen for now.
 

LeGenD

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Western allies cannot allow China to fraternise with the Taliban
Tuesday 31 August 2021 2:00 pm


The swift demise of Afghanistan has dominated every headline. Twenty years of aid, support and work towards political stability wiped out in a mere nine days. This will only spell the start of the atrocities — the return of female oppression and a crack down on all who aided Western countries are already reemerging.

As if this was enough of a geopolitical disaster, enter China. Guided by pragmatism over principles, Beijing is more than willing to ignore the domestic issues of a country, whether they are human rights violations, political coups or religious wars, as long as that country can provide them with some financial gain. It has a one-track mind: How can it use countries to attain the highest output of economic capital.

To China, the situation in Afghanistan isn’t a debacle, it’s an opportunity to gain access to a shining mountain of untapped economic potential. If China’s siren song is sweet enough for the Taliban, it could threaten to unbalance global trade.

The ideological war of Communism vs. Democracy being waged between the US and China has taken a dramatic swing in Chinese favour these past weeks. America is seen retreating, a mere shadow of the international peacekeeper it once claimed to be. And China, not wasting any time, has already met with the Taliban co-founder, Mullah Abdul Ghani to assure them that China is ready to move ahead in good relations.

As a country enveloped by political instability and economic fragility, Afghanistan has an enormous dependence on foreign aid. For example, in 2019 the British government sent £292 million to Afghanistan, making it the third largest recipient of British aid in 2019. Despite this, Afghanistan’s annual GDP only contributes 0.02 per cent to the world economy, and according to a report from the US Congressional Research Service, in 2020 90 per cent of Afghans were living below the poverty rate of $2 a day. Why, then, should the West be so concerned by a Chinese-Afghan alliance? The answer is simple: rare minerals.


Despite this country’s abysmal economic record, Afghanistan is sitting on an estimated $1-3 trillion worth of rare minerals, including gold, copper, cobalt and rare earths. These substances are essential in everything from electric cars to aeroplanes to defence weapons. Around 35 per cent of all global rare earth reserves are already located in China. If China gains access to the Afghan reserves, it will be in clear stead to corner the market.

This would wreak havoc on global trade. It is no secret that China is willing to exploit and threaten other countries in order to achieve its own political agenda. In 2019, during the US-China trade war, China threatened to cut off its rare earth exports to the US, jeopardising swathes of tech and defence production.

Imagine a world where China controls the vast majority of rare minerals. A country condemns Chinese actions or supports an enemy of China. Sanctions? Tariffs? Complete economic exclusion? Chinese power would hardly quiver with fear.

Mining of such rare minerals is hugely expensive, beyond the limited budget of a low-income country like Afghanistan, however China has more than enough funds to support such an operation. The Taliban, currently consumed with its foreign affairs and security risks, may see Chinese involvement as an asset. But they should beware. In 2017 Sri Lanka too saw Chinese investment as a saving grace, but when the government could not pay off its debt to Chinese companies, it was forced to hand over one of its most strategic ports to Beijing.

Gaining access to Afghanistan would also open up a whole new world of trading routes for China, allowing it to further its Belt & Road Initiative and further its attempt to assert China at the center of global trade. The Wakhan corridor will become an essential trading route, granting China access to the Middle East. It would give Beijing the opportunity to cast influence over a host of unstable and corrupt regimes, vulnerable to the lure of Chinese investment. Chinese influence in Iran increased significantly after the signing of the 25-year cooperation plan with Tehran. In Dubai and Saudi Arabia, Chinese tech companies have managed to be involved in the most important technological projects in the region, including Saudi Arabia’s National Transformation Programme 2030.


The focus for Western governments right now must be the evacuation of all those who served and helped the West. But we cannot ignore the enormous trade stability threat that the Chinese-Afghan relationship poses. As China steps ever closer to becoming the world’s leading economy, we must proceed with caution and ensure trade stability remains intact. This can be achieved by maintaining good relationships with the countries surrounding Afghanistan, thereby creating a buffer zone against further Chinese expansion. The UK should focus on its relationship with the UAE, where predictions for mutual trade of services and goods is at £25 billion for 2022.

Moving forward, if China continues to fraternise with the Taliban, a known extremist Islamist organisation, the West must retaliate with more than condemnation. Sanctions and tariffs will be the first step, but if this can be reinforced by a global united front, then there may still be a chance to contain the threat of China.


To be fair, this is the unfortunate reality of our times. One Camp have issues with potential investments of the other Camp in a resourceful environment.

This creates undue pressure on countries which want to diversify Foreign investments in them.

Cold War mentality unfortunately.
 

redtom

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Imagine a world where China US controls the vast majority of rare minerals money. A country condemns Chinese US actions or supports an enemy of China US. Sanctions? Tariffs? Complete economic exclusion? Chinese US power would hardly quiver with fear.

Better. :meeting:

I can't even rule out the suspicion that the author is satirizing the US.
 

jamahir

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I am sorry, I really didn't expect that India has the kind of extreme left wing that even the stock market opposes.
Your point has made me think. Thank you.

First a starting point. I am a Muslim Communist and Islamic principles seem to allow investing in stock market but on the condition that the company to be invested in does not work on interest-based economics and its service does not involve gambling and other such moral wrongs and it is even better if the surrounding society is governed is an ideal Islamic welfare state society where losing money in the stock market will not lead to the person becoming bankrupt / socio-economically deprived. I think Islamic stock investment is a smaller version of taking up partnership in a business instead of giving loan to the business. The loan-giver will of course want to make profit and will ask for a cut of the profits from the business' products or services and will be understanding of the fact that Islam prohibits interest-based economics ( Islam evolved this from the preachings of Prophet Isa - Jesus - 600 years prior to the establishment of Islam ). But some Muslim investor who either does not have too much money to take up partnership or does not want to risk money by lending to a business whose idea or product may not work can more safely invest in an established business as stocks and he will be protected by the surrounding welfare state system.

This can also be theoretically extended to a more evolved society which is governed on modern, ideal Communist ideals and which has an evolved socio-economic system. In such a system there can be stocks investing but a person who loses money will have not consequences of economic desperation. Please read this my proposal again to know how that can be done. Let us say a company - say one producing durable, stylish and smart clothing - needs immediately funds to purchase some components from other companies so that they can do research for a certain clothing product but has insufficient funds even after pooling funds from the leaders and the other workers ( companies will be a collectivized arrangement ). What they can do is invite immediate / urgent stock investment through the internet. After a while the research done, product developed and sold, the profits will be distributed equally among the leaders and other workers of the company and among the stock investors depending on how much they invested. And if the product doesn't get sold and doesn't get profit the stock investors will not become economically deprived because of the nature of the socio-economic system I proposed. So a development.

1. If there is a worker riot in the oil well invested by the Indian oil company(IOC) in Gabon because of the wage problem, do you support the IOC or the Gabonese workers?
I will start by saying that I almost set up an employee union in the ITES company I worked in from 2013 to 2014. I found wrongs done to me and a few others so this led me to organically decide to set up a union. I didn't know then that the Indian Constitution gives the worker the right to join or set up a union. The idea just came to me to organize the workers. I secretly spread the word around in my branch office to a few workers. The local branch manager somehow got to know of this and quarreled with me on this so I decided to go higher up with my complaints. And the HR lady asked me what is the solution. I foolishly said I want to resign from the company despite my previous plan of setting up the union. I had the momentum so I could really have set the union but I resigned. My previous plan was to set up the union in my branch and then to encourage workers in the main branch in my city to set one up too. This would have been the first employee union in the Indian IT / ITES industry. The next step would have been to encourage my union's workers to tell their friends in other IT / ITES companies in any Indian city to set up unions too. It was a wonderful plan but I resigned. Foolish of me.

But about your question we will have to first go back to before the riot started and this we are talking about the current situation in which India and IOC are Capitalist entities.

If I am a labor leader in Indian IOC and I get to know of IOC's plans to develop an oil well in Gabon I will get the company to send me to Gabon to establish contact with the incoming workers and encourage them to set up an employee union ( and enlist a leader from amongst them who is intelligent, calm and not given to violence ). This would be opposite to the case of IBM-USA which had an employee union ( at least until 2015 ) but when IBM set up the Indian branch many years ago neither the Indian workers set up a union nor did representatives of IBM-USA employee union came here and incited IBM-India workers to set up the union. And this inaction by IBM-India employees is wrong even considering that my father who worked in a government-owned bank and told me that bank workers from all over India, from different banks set up a common employee union IIRC right after the country's independence in 1947.

Coming back to IOC-Gabon it would be ideal if the worker union leaders sit in every meeting that the management has. Now if the workers have a wage problem then they have a legitimate complaint and the workers will discuss this amongst themselves first. Their leaders will not wait for the next management meeting but immediately go to the management about this. The negotiations will need to be calm and the workers will be repeated told to be calm too and informed that the union exists for their welfare so any indiscipline from them will have the effect of those particular workers losing the sympathy and support of the union leaders and the other workers and of me the original Indian union-setting-up encourager. The local union leaders will use me as the conduit to tell the IOC-India management about the wage concerns of the IOC-Gabon workers and I will try to do further negotiations. There can be the possibility of worker strike in IOC-India sites in solidarity with IOC-Gabon workers which will further give encouragement to IOC-Gabon workers to not do indiscipline, rioting etc. If rioting is about to be done by a few workers the other workers will be encouraged to discourage the mischief makers from doing it and if it still is done then the rioters will have to face Gabon security law.

2. How do you evaluate China's Cultural Revolution?
TBH I don't know much about it though I do tend to not accept biased Western recounting of it. Can you summarize that entire revolution ?

3. How do you evaluate Trotsky?
Again, I don't know much about Trotsky except how he was killed and also me reading this 2013 article about the Pakistani female activist Malala Yousafzai attending a gathering of Socialists in Pakistan that was arranged by IMT ( International Marxist Tendency - a Trotskyite group ). I quote :
Message from Malala

Comrade Javed Iqbal, a Pakistani comrade from Birmingham in the UK, intervened to read out a message that had been sent from Malala Yousafzai, the young sympathiser of the Marxist Tendency famous for her part in the struggle for the right to education for girls in Pakistan. She had taken part in the national Marxist Summer School in July of last year in Swat. She was tragically shot in the head in a barbaric attack by fundamentalists, and made headlines worldwide. She is now thankfully recovering in the UK.

The message she sent reads as follows:
“First of all I’d like to thank The Struggle and the IMT for giving me a chance to speak last year at their Summer Marxist School in Swat and also for introducing me to Marxism and Socialism. I just want to say that in terms of education, as well as other problems in Pakistan, it is high time that we did something to tackle them ourselves. It’s important to take the initiative. We cannot wait around for any one else to come and do it. Why are we waiting for someone else to come and fix things? Why aren’t we doing it ourselves?

“I would like to send my heartfelt greetings to the congress. I am convinced Socialism is the only answer and I urge all comrades to take this struggle to a victorious conclusion. Only this will free us from the chains of bigotry and exploitation.”
This was also one of the several moving moments of the congress. A close friend of Malala was also present at the congress, who was on the bus when the girls were attacked. She spoke, making some comments and reading out a poem. This young female comrade is an example of the calibre of comrades that belong to the IMT in Pakistan. In fact, throughout the congress comrades intervened from areas, where gang fighting, killings, bomb blasts, drone attacks, and generalised warfare is taking place. Listening to them makes one’s blood boil, as it graphically brings home the immense contradictions and injustices in this class ridden society.
The article also has this :
The 32nd congress of the Pakistani Marxists opened on Saturday, 9th March and was well beyond expectations in terms of the number of comrades and sympathisers attending. With 2769 comrades registering for the first day, this makes it the biggest congress ever. Comrade came from all over the country in a mood of enormous enthusiasm, as this country is plunged into the deepest crisis in its history.

Comrades travelled from far off areas to Lahore to attend the congress. It was not easy for them, as they have had to bear many hardships, including massively increased fares of trains and buses. Pakistan Railways are in a serious crisis and many trains have been removed from the timetable or privatized, increasing further difficulties for passengers. Due to regular petrol and gas shortages, simply arriving on time for the congress was a big difficulty. In spite of this the comrades were determined and started out on their journey one day before the scheduled time, in order to make sure no last minute hitches could delay them getting to the congress.

Many students, unemployed youth and labourers who could not afford the fares and fees for the congress had been raising Fighting Fund over the last few months so that they should not miss this historic gathering and play their important role in its deliberations.

About my political spectrum it is evolving. I know the basics of what a Communist society should be like and various experiments around the world and what they achieved. For example, in pre-2011 Libya there was Direct Democracy - effectively the people ruling themselves. This was essentially an implementation of the Communist desire for "the withering away of the State". The Libyan political system has been adapted by Venezuela. And then I made the proposal for a new socio-economic system which has money but has eradicated economic classification and socio-economic deprivation.
 
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Leviza

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Simple rona dhona

they tried their best and failed and now afraid of china going to get all of the goodies with the business approach rather than military lol

Also the article highlights the confusion in some minds that invasion was related to 9/11 attacks

It was was always about Afghanistan location and goodies
 

Verve

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@MH.Yang

Don't be misled by the 'Muslim' Communist ... if you want to understand his political spectrum, you only need to look at the first Afghan communist regime that Soviets entered to protect. He hates political Islam and doesn't understand the Islamic System so 'muslim' is just an add-on with no influence on his ideology.
 

jamahir

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He hates political Islam
What is the meaning of "political Islam" ?

and doesn't understand the Islamic System so 'muslim' is just an add-on with no influence on his ideology.
And yet it is me who is most forward on PDF to post about the progressive aspects of Islamic law whether it be about marriage or property / estate inheritance or the similarity between Islam and Modern Communism. Even in my above post you "read" has explanation of Islamic view on stock investment.

What have you posted ?
 

Verve

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What is the meaning of "political Islam" ?



And yet it is me who is most forward on PDF to post about the progressive aspects of Islamic law whether it be about marriage or property / estate inheritance or the similarity between Islam and Modern Communism. Even in my above post you "read" has explanation of Islamic view on stock investment.

What have you posted ?
Are you willing to have a discussion with direct references to the muhkamat in Quran and Hadith?

Let me gauge some basic understanding of Islam. You borrowed IR 200,000 from me 30 years ago - How much would you pay me back today? I'm not after the exact figure, I want you to tell me how the sum to be paid today would be calculated in accordance with Islam!
 

jamahir

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Are you willing to have a discussion with direct references to the muhkamat in Quran and Hadith?
1. About Quran : I will be willing to have a discussion with you in two years from now before which I will have finally put my mind to read it. A friend gifted me an English translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali and I have read just the introductory pages. And having read it I wouldn't become a mindless drone but still be aware that my posts and threads on Islamic marriage, inheritance, stock investment etc will remain same as now.

2. About Hadees : I reject most things about those works even without reading them and the rejection based on the words and actions of those who preach them most. The rejection based on my belief that I have the talent to find the truths. The below man from undivided India also rejected them and I have quoted that section from my 2016 thread ( the OP is an article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha ) to you before :
Parvez was a prominent ‘Quranist’, or an Islamic scholar who insisted that for the Muslims to make progress in the modern world, Islamic thought and laws should be entirely based on the modern interpretations of the Qu’ran and on the complete rejection of the hadith (sayings of the Prophet and his companions based on hearsay and compiled over a 100 years after the Prophet’s demise).

After studying traditional Muslim texts, as well as Sufism, Parvez claimed that almost all hadiths were fabrications by those who wanted Islam to seem like an intolerant faith and by ancient Muslim kings who used these hadiths to give divine legitimacy to their tyrannical rules.

Parvez also insisted that Muslims should spend more time studying the modern sciences instead of wasting their energies on fighting out ancient sectarian conflicts or ignoring the true egalitarian and enlightening spirit of the Qu’ran by indulging in multiple rituals handed down to them by ancient ulema, clerics and compilers of the hadith.

Understandably, Parvez was right away attacked by conservative Islamic scholars and political outfits.

But this didn’t stop famous Muslim philosopher and poet, Muhammad Iqbal, to befriend the young scholar and then introduce him to the future founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Jinnah appointed Parvez to edit a magazine, Talu-e-Islam. It was set-up to propagate the creation of a separate Muslim country and to also answer the attacks that Jinnah’s All India Muslim League had begun to face from conservative Islamic parties and ulema who accused the League of being a pseudo-Muslim organisation and Jinnah for being too westernised and ‘lacking correct Islamic behavior.’

Apart from continuing to author books and commentaries on the Qu’ran, Parvez wrote a series of articles in Talu-e-Islam that propagated a more socialistic view of the holy book.

In a series of essays for the magazine he used verses from the Qu’ran, incidents from the faith’s history and insights from the writings of Muhammad Iqbal to claim:

The clergy and conservative ulema have hijacked Islam.

They are agents of the rich people and promoters of uncontrolled Capitalism.

Socialism best enforces Qur’anic dictums on property, justice and distribution of wealth.

Islam’s main mission was the eradication of all injustices and cruelties from society. It was a socio-economic movement, and the Prophet was a leader seeking to put an end to the capitalist exploitation of the Quraysh merchants and the corrupt bureaucracy of Byzantium and Persia.

According to the Qur’an, Muslims have three main responsibilities: seeing, hearing and sensing through the agency of the mind. Consequently, real knowledge is based on empirically verifiable observation, or through the role of science.

Poverty is the punishment of God and deserved by those who ignore science.

In Muslim/Islamic societies, science, as well as agrarian reform should play leading roles in developing an industrialised economy.

A socialist path is a correction of the medieval distortion of Islam through Shari’a.
Where I will accept the hadees writings are where they appeal to me with logic and sensibility. For example, stories about the respect for cats by the earliest Muslims.

But you have not until now answered my points including what is "political Islam" and what Islamic scholars have found similarity between Islam and Communism. Please stop writing like an obsessed Tablighi Jamaati.

Let me gauge some basic understanding of Islam.
As if you have understanding of the philosophical origins of Islam and progressive laws. :lol: You think Al Qaeda are true Muslims. And is the recent behavior of the Taliban towards women Islamic ?

You borrowed IR 200,000 from me 30 years ago - How much would you pay me back today? I'm not after the exact figure, I want you to tell me how the sum to be paid today would be calculated in accordance with Islam!
Details are necessary and I am a person who can work at system level and micro-level but you are asking needless details. Seems to me that you just want to have a quarrel.
 
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Verve

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1. About Quran : I will be willing to have a discussion with you in two years from now before which I will have finally put my mind to read it. A friend gifted me an English translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali and I have read just the introductory pages. And having read it I wouldn't become a mindless drone but still be aware that my posts and threads on Islamic marriage, inheritance, stock investment etc will remain same as now.
It is not surprising that you have not even attempted to understand Quran and yet claim to compare Islam and communism! :rolleyes1:

Download IslamOne app ... you will get all translations for each Aya, and all Hadith books too! Consider that a gift.

2. About Hadees : I reject most things about those works. As did this man from undivided India and I have quoted that section from my 2016 thread ( the OP is an article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha ) to you before :
aaah, a munkar-e-Hadith who hasn't even read the translation of Quran in all these years being a muslim and blatantly rejects the Hadith only based on what others have said. Ability of Self study and critical thinking are clearly missing!

Details are necessary and I am a person who can work at system level and micro-level but you are asking needless details. Seems to me that you just want to have a quarrel.
You are clueless on Islam. Read Quran and reflect deeply on the Ayat at the very least first before asking for details. If you had an iota of Deen knowledge and how financial transactions are done in accordance with Islam, you wouldn't have asked for details. It was clear from the statement accompanying the question that the sum to repay would not be the same!
 

MH.Yang

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Your point has made me think. Thank you.

First a starting point. I am a Muslim Communist and Islamic principles seem to allow investing in stock market but on the condition that the company to be invested in does not work on interest-based economics and its service does not involve gambling and other such moral wrongs and it is even better if the surrounding society is governed is an ideal Islamic welfare state society where losing money in the stock market will not lead to the person becoming bankrupt / socio-economically deprived. I think Islamic stock investment is a smaller version of taking up partnership in a business instead of giving loan to the business. The loan-giver will of course want to make profit and will ask for a cut of the profits from the business' products or services and will be understanding of the fact that Islam prohibits interest-based economics ( Islam evolved this from the preachings of Prophet Isa - Jesus - 600 years prior to the establishment of Islam ). But some Muslim investor who either does not have too much money to take up partnership or does not want to risk money by lending to a business whose idea or product may not work can more safely invest in an established business as stocks and he will be protected by the surrounding welfare state system.

This can also be theoretically extended to a more evolved society which is governed on modern, ideal Communist ideals and which has an evolved socio-economic system. In such a system there can be stocks investing but a person who loses money will have not consequences of economic desperation. Please read this my proposal again to know how that can be done. Let us say a company - say one producing durable, stylish and smart clothing - needs immediately funds to purchase some components from other companies so that they can do research for a certain clothing product but has insufficient funds even after pooling funds from the leaders and the other workers ( companies will be a collectivized arrangement ). What they can do is invite immediate / urgent stock investment through the internet. After a while the research done, product developed and sold, the profits will be distributed equally among the leaders and other workers of the company and among the stock investors depending on how much they invested. And if the product doesn't get sold and doesn't get profit the stock investors will not become economically deprived because of the nature of the socio-economic system I proposed. So a development.



I will start by saying that I almost set up an employee union in the ITES company I worked in from 2013 to 2014. I found wrongs done to me and a few others so this led me to organically decide to set up a union. I didn't know then that the Indian Constitution gives the worker the right to join or set up a union. The idea just came to me to organize the workers. I secretly spread the word around in my branch office to a few workers. The local branch manager somehow got to know of this and quarreled with me on this so I decided to go higher up with my complaints. And the HR lady asked me what is the solution. I foolishly said I want to resign from the company despite my previous plan of setting up the union. I had the momentum so I could really have set the union but I resigned. My previous plan was to set up the union in my branch and then to encourage workers in the main branch in my city to set one up too. This would have been the first employee union in the Indian IT / ITES industry. The next step would have been to encourage my union's workers to tell their friends in other IT / ITES companies in any Indian city to set up unions too. It was a wonderful plan but I resigned. Foolish of me.

But about your question we will have to first go back to before the riot started and this we are talking about the current situation in which India and IOC are Capitalist entities.

If I am a labor leader in Indian IOC and I get to know of IOC's plans to develop an oil well in Gabon I will get the company to send me to Gabon to establish contact with the incoming workers and encourage them to set up an employee union ( and enlist a leader from amongst them who is intelligent, calm and not given to violence ). This would be opposite to the case of IBM-USA which had an employee union ( at least until 2015 ) but when IBM set up the Indian branch many years ago neither the Indian workers set up a union nor did representatives of IBM-USA employee union came here and incited IBM-India workers to set up the union. And this inaction by IBM-India employees is wrong even considering that my father who worked in a government-owned bank and told me that bank workers from all over India, from different banks set up a common employee union IIRC right after the country's independence in 1947.

Coming back to IOC-Gabon it would be ideal if the worker union leaders sit in every meeting that the management has. Now if the workers have a wage problem then they have a legitimate complaint and the workers will discuss this amongst themselves first. Their leaders will not wait for the next management meeting but immediately go to the management about this. The negotiations will need to be calm and the workers will be repeated told to be calm too and informed that the union exists for their welfare so any indiscipline from them will have the effect of those particular workers losing the sympathy and support of the union leaders and the other workers and of me the original Indian union-setting-up encourager. The local union leaders will use me as the conduit to tell the IOC-India management about the wage concerns of the IOC-Gabon workers and I will try to do further negotiations. There can be the possibility of worker strike in IOC-India sites in solidarity with IOC-Gabon workers which will further give encouragement to IOC-Gabon workers to not do indiscipline, rioting etc. If rioting is about to be done by a few workers the other workers will be encouraged to discourage the mischief makers from doing it and if it still is done then the rioters will have to face Gabon security law.



TBH I don't know much about it though I do tend to not accept biased Western recounting of it. Can you summarize that entire revolution ?



Again, I don't know much about Trotsky except how he was killed and also me reading this 2013 article about the Pakistani female activist Malala Yousafzai attending a gathering of Socialists in Pakistan that was arranged by IMT ( International Marxist Tendency - a Trotskyite group ). I quote :

The article also has this :



About my political spectrum it is evolving. I know the basics of what a Communist society should be like and various experiments around the world and what they achieved. For example, in pre-2011 Libya there was Direct Democracy - effectively the people ruling themselves. This was essentially an implementation of the Communist desire for "the withering away of the State". The Libyan political system has been adapted by Venezuela. And then I made the proposal for a new socio-economic system which has money but has eradicated economic classification and socio-economic deprivation.

If you understand the history of the communism, you will find that it is a schisms history. Too many ideas lead to too many kinds of communism. Everyone thinks he is right. The Communist is first and foremost an idealist, and their intransigence to the ideal has led to the continuous division of communism.
The CCP is also a separatist.
You have also noticed that the Vietnamese are particularly angry at the breakup between the CCP and the CPSU. They think the Chinese are traitors. The departure of the CCP led to the failure of the Communist camp, and then led to a series of wars and tragedies for the Vietnamese.
From the standpoint of the Communist International, the Vietnamese are right. We are splittists and traitors.
The Soviet Union is our comrade, our friend, our teacher and our enemy. We betrayed the Soviet Union, and we were immediately punished.
In 1951, we kicked the American pl. In 1958, we scolded the Soviets again. In addition to our loyal brother Pakistanis, Almost the whole world is our enemy, and more than 20k nuclear bombs have been aimed at us.
The Chinese are not crazy. Why do the Chinese do this?

My daughter and son are fighting. I'll deal with it first and continue later.
 
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... Even in my above post you "read" has explanation of Islamic view on stock investment.
How do you justify stocks? In best of scenarios it falls in the gray...
Though an investor who is risk averse and in for a long haul, not betting on expected gains in coming quarter and jump ship...

For a short intro... read
"Qimar" (Arabic: قمار) means buying or purchasing on chance or gambling... throwing darts in hopes something sticks...

"Gharar" (Arabic: غرر‎) literally means uncertainty, hazard, chance or risk(speculate).

For context...
In, Ahmad and Ibn Majah narrated on the authority of Abu-Said al-Khudriy that:

The Prophet (pbuh) has forbidden the purchase of the unborn animal in the mother's womb, the sale of the milk in the udder without measurement, the purchase of spoils of war prior to their distribution, the purchase of charities prior to their receipt, and the purchase of the catch of a diver.

The implications of these are far reaching and consequential on modern trading and stock tactics...

It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn ʻAbbaas that the Prophet, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, also forbade the resale of foodstuff by somebody who had bought it unless he had received it with exact full measure. [Al-Bukhari, Muslim, and others]

Ibn ʻAbbaas also reported that the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, said, " If anyone buys a grain, he should not sell it until he takes possession of it. " Ibn ʻAbbaas remarked, " I think all things are considered the same in this regard. " Another version reads, " I regard everything like food (so far as this principle is concerned). " [Muslim]

These open a pandora box on all different kinds of trading methods and their implications...
 
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Verve

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How do you justify stocks? In best of scenarios it falls in the gray...
Though an investor who is risk averse and in for a long haul, not betting on expected gains in coming quarter and jump ship...

For a short intro... read
"Qimar" (Arabic: قمار) means buying or purchasing on chance or gambling... throwing darts in hopes something sticks...

"Gharar" (Arabic: غرر‎) literally means uncertainty, hazard, chance or risk(speculate).

For context...
In, Ahmad and Ibn Majah narrated on the authority of Abu-Said al-Khudriy that:

The Prophet (pbuh) has forbidden the purchase of the unborn animal in the mother's womb, the sale of the milk in the udder without measurement, the purchase of spoils of war prior to their distribution, the purchase of charities prior to their receipt, and the purchase of the catch of a diver.

The implications of these are far reaching and consequential on modern trading and stock tactics...

It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn ʻAbbaas that the Prophet, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, also forbade the resale of foodstuff by somebody who had bought it unless he had received it with exact full measure. [Al-Bukhari, Muslim, and others]

Ibn ʻAbbaas also reported that the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, said, " If anyone buys a grain, he should not sell it until he takes possession of it. " Ibn ʻAbbaas remarked, " I think all things are considered the same in this regard. " Another version reads, " I regard everything like food (so far as this principle is concerned). " [Muslim]

These open a pandora box on all different kinds of trading methods and their implications...
@jamahir has rejected Hadith outright ..

2. About Hadees : I reject most things about those works even without reading them
 

jamahir

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How do you justify stocks? In best of scenarios it falls in the gray...
You are right. Actually until I began post# 35 I too was against stock markets totally which is why I wrote of stock-market-related suicides in China in post# 18.

And before post# 35 I searched for the Islamic view of stock trading, found a page ( should have linked it ) and wrote an analysis of what I found.

Though an investor who is risk averse and in for a long haul, not betting on expected gains in coming quarter and jump ship...

For a short intro... read
"Qimar" (Arabic: قمار) means buying or purchasing on chance or gambling... throwing darts in hopes something sticks...

"Gharar" (Arabic: غرر‎) literally means uncertainty, hazard, chance or risk(speculate).

For context...
In, Ahmad and Ibn Majah narrated on the authority of Abu-Said al-Khudriy that:

The Prophet (pbuh) has forbidden the purchase of the unborn animal in the mother's womb, the sale of the milk in the udder without measurement, the purchase of spoils of war prior to their distribution, the purchase of charities prior to their receipt, and the purchase of the catch of a diver.

The implications of these are far reaching and consequential onodern trading and stock tactics...

It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn ʻAbbaas that the Prophet, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, also forbade the resale of foodstuff by somebody who had bought it unless he had received it with exact full measure. [Al-Bukhari, Muslim, and others]

Ibn ʻAbbaas also reported that the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, said, " If anyone buys a grain, he should not sell it until he takes possession of it. " Ibn ʻAbbaas remarked, " I think all things are considered the same in this regard. " Another version reads, " I regard everything like food (so far as this principle is concerned). " [Muslim]

These open a pandora box on all different kinds of trading methods and their implications...
Thanks for the details and yes it does open a pandora box. But please do read later down in post# 35 about my thinking of what kind of evolved stock trading can be done in an ideal Communist society.

It is not surprising that you have not even attempted to understand Quran and yet claim to compare Islam and communism! :rolleyes1:
From my thread :
During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.
Seems you are more knowledgeable about Islam than these intellectuals from 100 years ago. :rolleyes:

Download IslamOne app ... you will get all translations for each Aya, and all Hadith books too! Consider that a gift.
I see. Well, thanks, even to someone who is not attempting to understand my points.

aaah, a munkar-e-Hadith who hasn't even read the translation of Quran in all these years being a muslim and blatantly rejects the Hadith only based on what others have said. Ability of Self study and critical thinking are clearly missing!
Not based on what others have said but on their beliefs and acts.

So if you would have lived during the times of Ghulam Ahmed Parvez, who also rejected the hadees works, and he would have been far more knowledgeable about Islam than me or indeed you, what would you have told him ?

You are clueless on Islam.
Yet I am the one explaining to Muslims and non-Muslims alike about the philosophy of Islam and its progressive and thoughtful laws. And I am the one dispelling wrong notions about Islam among Muslims and non-Muslims.

Again I ask, what have you been doing ?
 

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