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We fought two superpowers for this day

-blitzkrieg-

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i fail to understand the venom here.They were successful in having US leave the region.Ofcourse its neghbors played their role but at the end of the day US left due to fatigue or phateek it doesnt matter.
In their minds they have defeated a superpower by not accepting its conditions the whole time like sitting under the ghani government or endorsing US conditions for a govt. They took the pressure established governments cant take as they have much to lose.... these bloks had nothing to lose.
The US departure however doesnt translate into political victory if they fail to run the country and other forces fill the space.
 
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MultaniGuy

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i fail to understand the venom here.They were successful in having US leave the region.Ofcourse its neghbors played their role but at the end of the day US left due to fatigue or phateek it doesnt matter.
In their minds they have defeated a superpower by not accepting its conditions the whole time like sitting under the ghani government or endorsing US conditions for a govt. They took the pressure established governments that have much to lose cant take but these bloks stayed rigid.
The US departure however doesnt translate into long term political victory if they fail to run the country and other forces fill the space.
Yes, the Afghan Taliban are celebrating like this:
 

SEOminati

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Samajh nahi araha why our Pakistani peeps are acting the same as bhakts were doing when US announced the withdrawal.
 

akramishaqkhan

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I am still amazed some of us think the Taliban made the US leave. The US left because it decided to leave. The US could have stayed another 100 years and there was nothing the Talibs could have done to change that. The US left because the political class thought the costs of continued presence in Afghanistan outweighed the benefits. Furthermore the US left a massive network of spies and agents and will continue to receive intel. If Talibs or any group grows too big for their britches they'll be droned out or worse.

The Taliban did not win the war, tactically or strategically. They inherited the ruins of what the US left behind, and short of some miracle of good governance and massive external funding Afghanistan will soon delve into tribal, ethnic warfare. In addition the old tradecraft will quickly follow like smuggling and other vices. Like I said if Afghanistan is not stabilized it will likely turn their attention to Pakistan as a means of distracting their populace. Just look at the statements that are ant-PK coming out of some factions within the Taliban. Only today some flunky on TV went on an anti-PK and anti-IK tirade.

There is too much factionalism and division within the Talibs, that worked well for a guerilla setup but does not work for national governance. Given they are exposing themselves now, their Orbat is being meticulously defined. Soon the foreign intel vultures will swoop in (if they haven't already), buying these factions, and pitting them against each other and against Pakistan. And we'll rue the day that Ghani (whom I despised) and his lot left.

Taliban are no friends of Pakistan (as a national construct) and Pakistanis will soon enough realize it.

They will come after their share of KPK under the guise of Pushtun nationalism mixed in with their logic of opposing dividing muslim brotherhood. Afghanistan and India will remain unified in their desire never to see a strong prosperous Pakistan.

(I have always tempered my exuberance on this group = there is too much variance within the ranks to ever be able to deal with someone and have consistency of thought, agreement and purpose)
 

Stealth

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If Americans had 1% interest to continue their stay in Afghanistan, believe me, they would stay there for 100 years and these so-called warriors aka Taliban would stay inside tora-bora-*ora... waday aye jihadis.... they wouldn't survive without external support... you know what I mean. That withdrawal was a realistic version of some Hollywood war movie nothing else more. If that western tatu aka ANA would've had western backing to start a war against these Taliban, believe me, they had enough weapons and capabilities. Just imagine the magnitude of bloodshed if .3M force was ready to defend against Talibans. That was fuking DEAL btw Modern tatu Talibans and Americans for a safe exit without any bloodshed.

These Taliban are nothing but a mercenary force that has good domestic/internal + external support.

PS: Those who have imaan will never make a deal for their own survival. They always fought and fight like a gentleman and achieve their objectives fair and square without any external support and deals. Palestinians/Hamas and Kashmiris have had got enough options to make a deal but they never did.

Americans did what the British did. They successfully created a buffer for China and Russia by handing over the entire A-tan to talibans. They knew Talibs will never accept any external force including Russian and Chinese into A-tan. Americans aren't idiots, but we are... do you really think the CIA is idiot enough to allow ISI or any foreign intel to operate in Atan? What capability poses by ISI against the CIA? it's all optics to shift the blame game. WE and our ISI have ZERO capability to defeat CIA on and in any battlefield.
 
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khansaheeb

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don’t get annoyed

there whole victory is of Pakistan saved these apes twice they’d be half Russian or something else if it wasn’t for Pakistan coming to there aid
Pakistan saved themselves not the Afghans.
I am still amazed some of us think the Taliban made the US leave. The US left because it decided to leave. The US could have stayed another 100 years and there was nothing the Talibs could have done to change that. The US left because the political class thought the costs of continued presence in Afghanistan outweighed the benefits. Furthermore the US left a massive network of spies and agents and will continue to receive intel. If Talibs or any group grows too big for their britches they'll be droned out or worse.

The Taliban did not win the war, tactically or strategically. They inherited the ruins of what the US left behind, and short of some miracle of good governance and massive external funding Afghanistan will soon delve into tribal, ethnic warfare. In addition the old tradecraft will quickly follow like smuggling and other vices. Like I said if Afghanistan is not stabilized it will likely turn their attention to Pakistan as a means of distracting their populace. Just look at the statements that are ant-PK coming out of some factions within the Taliban. Only today some flunky on TV went on an anti-PK and anti-IK tirade.

There is too much factionalism and division within the Talibs, that worked well for a guerilla setup but does not work for national governance. Given they are exposing themselves now, their Orbat is being meticulously defined. Soon the foreign intel vultures will swoop in (if they haven't already), buying these factions, and pitting them against each other and against Pakistan. And we'll rue the day that Ghani (whom I despised) and his lot left.

Taliban are no friends of Pakistan (as a national construct) and Pakistanis will soon enough realize it.

They will come after their share of KPK under the guise of Pushtun nationalism mixed in with their logic of opposing dividing muslim brotherhood. Afghanistan and India will remain unified in their desire never to see a strong prosperous Pakistan.

(I have always tempered my exuberance on this group = there is too much variance within the ranks to ever be able to deal with someone and have consistency of thought, agreement and purpose)
This what all losers say. The US army and Politicians don't agree with you, so stop the BS.
 

Azadkashmir

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These Talibs are just cockroaches,
Real Players are Russia, China and US, even not Pakistan,

In Afghanistan> US defeated Russians by using these cockroaches as their proxy,
In Afghanistan> Russia, China nexus defeated US by using these cockroaches as their proxy,

In Vietnam> Russia, China nexus defeated US by using Vietcong as their proxy,
In Korea> Russia, China supported N. Korea, US supported S. Korea

After WW2, Russia, China, US are fighting everywhere for their national interests, political gains.



Cockroaches

there is also rumors they are all in bed china, Russia, USA all one including one belt n one road.
usa built soviet super power, right down to manufacturing pencils and usa built up china into super power through transfer of technology and trade. usa also built Germany into super power under Nazi regime ig farben, ford, GM and others were trading with Hitler boys.
 

khansaheeb

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I think and I hope you can argue without delving into profanity.
This is what the top US general said:-
Top US general says America lost the war in Afghanistan, and more troops would not have changed the outcome
BY
CAITLIN DOORNBOS
• STARS AND STRIPES • SEPTEMBER 29, 2021
 

akramishaqkhan

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This is what the top US general said:-
Top US general says America lost the war in Afghanistan, and more troops would not have changed the outcome
BY
CAITLIN DOORNBOS
• STARS AND STRIPES • SEPTEMBER 29, 2021
For every General who will say US lost there will be 10 who'll say the opposite. So not sure how we should take these headlines.

The point above that I made that you eloquently referred to as BS is that US departure was not a factor of a military defeat. It was a factor of political will. You can argue that wars are a function of both and in that case you will have a point. But I just wanted to temper folks like yourself alongwith the Talibs self sense of warrior prowess. Afghans are good guerrilla fighters, that are effective in factional and tribal conflict. They are not good soldiers and fighters against any well disciplined and modern military. Almost every tactical engagement the US military fought they won. In the end the monetary cost and the political will eroded, not the military capability.

As a Pushtun myself, we are bred with this self belief that we are the best warriors. Man on man. What I find is that our group has this come fast come hard mentality which makes most people recoil and avoid conflict. The notion for others is that picking a fight with us is a life long enmity and annoyance and hence they avoid it. Within Pakistan no one wants to tangle with our group because of the belief that we'll do something and then disappear in the bad lands and Pushtuns who have moved into cities play that fiction to our advantage.

Reality is Pushtuns are no harder or stronger than any one else. Be it Punjabi or Mohajir or Balouchi. In fact this veil of invincibility was badly pierced in the 80's when the Bihar / Pakhtoon riots first broke out in Karachi. Everyone was of the view that the poor Biharis have tangled with the wrong bunch. Reality turned out very different for those of us who remember those years.

History is replete with examples of Pushtun lands being overrun by everyone. From Mongols, to Moghuls, to Persians, to Russians, to British, to Sikhs and then eventually the US. Some fared better than others but most thoroughly handed down the Pushtuns massive military losses. Where the tide turns is these powers never understood the deep-seated nature of factionalism and tribalism. So when they all attempted to unify this area they failed miserably.

So in conclusion most of these powers (barring one major tactical loss by the British - that makes the Pushtun warrior spirit legend), consistently won militarily. But lost eventually due to other factors as described above which were non-military.

Afghanistan has two cultures. City culture (Herat, Kabul, MS) - which themselves are unique) and rural culture and never the twain shall meet. Any power that tries to bring these together will fail.
So when I hear Talibs saying we defeated superpowers - I have to chuckle. In the first case it was the US/Pak and Mujahideen against the USSR not these Talibs vs the USSR. If it we not for the support they received they would have amounted to nothing. In the second scenario you had an almost 20 year occupation of the entire country that eventually lost out again due to support from Russia,China, Iran and to some degree Pakistan - and at the conclusion of the US affair, it was the US that decided on disengagement from this sector - it wasn't some Talib's great accomplishment in battle. US strategy is driven in large measure by investing in East Asia (counter China), Eastern Europe (to counter Russia), and GCC (to counter Iran). By removing their somewhat exposed soldiers in Afghanistan they are now in a better position to twist Iran, Russia, and China. Departure from Afghanistan was a realignment not a loss. And only those who understand US military doctrine understand this. US sees the world as a battlefield. They dont look at countries as areas of battlefield. They look at entire regions as battlefield command so for them repositioning asset into a base 2 hour flight time from Afghanistan means realignment of men and resources from one base to the other.
 

Ballal

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In my opinion the US did not lose the war at least not in the traditional or significant sense. They lost purely from a political sense, the American military did not lose anything, it was the political objectives that were stupid from the day the Taliban was toppled.

As others have said Americans won all tactical battles,

I remember listening to a few podcast from American vets, a consistent theme was that even when they would lose tactically and would retreat they would kill a handful of Taliban without any loses prior to retreat. They would then hear the Taliban cheer over the radio as if they have won the war, totally not bothered that they lost like 5 guys

Taliban lost over 52,000

The Americans lost 2,235 (829 deaths (42%) from IEDs)
that's 23 Taliban for every 1 solider

Coalition total losses are 3,502
that's 15 Taliban for every 1 solider

In terms of money the Americans spent just shy of a trillion USD, but 95% of this went back into their own industry and country, they essentially made 20 year long state enterprise out of Afghanistan

Random fact: 1 trillion USD is equivalent to 23 year of Pakistan annual budget, that is 1/3rd of Pakistan’s existence – correct me if I am wrong
 
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