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War is boring : Chinese military is a Paper Dragon

Esc8781

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If a band of bearded yahoos could kick American *** in Afghanistan for the past 10 years, how do Americans consider themselves the strongest military power and play policemen to the world?

They need to come down from their high horse, banish arrogance, and face reality instead of living in a world of make-believe.
Yep this is what we get for our RoE. The rules of engagement restricts just about everything the military can do. Let's see what other countries can do when having the RoE in action.

Btw this author David Axe is known for his intellectual dishonesty. You can read here where someone busts him.

op-for.com/2014/02/punk-journalism-and-the-f-35.html
 

tranquilium

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The very atmosphere of the article is pretty strange. Sure, China has its share of defeats and humiliations, but If Chinese history is divided into ten days, China would have spent one day being invaded, three days in a stalemate and seven days expending. There is a reason China is one of the largest country in the world, you don't get to be that big without being more successful at war than others.

Any nation with a long history would have more than its share of victory and defeat, but being the only 5000+ continuous civilization that survived into the modern day and possessing one of the largest territory on the planet, China is doing pretty well.
 

Derek Yeh

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I think the author is party correct. Yes, the Chinese projection capability is still pretty weak compared to their Western counterparts. But the Chinese are not about to fight war in Africa, or Europe or even the Middle East. Conflicts are most likely to emerge in the East China Sea, Chinese fighters can reach Japan within 15 minutes after takeoff. So we need to consider the geographical factors as well!
 

Pangu

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I think the author is party correct. Yes, the Chinese projection capability is still pretty weak compared to their Western counterparts. But the Chinese are not about to fight war in Africa, or Europe or even the Middle East. Conflicts are most likely to emerge in the East China Sea, Chinese fighters can reach Japan within 15 minutes after takeoff. So we need to consider the geographical factors as well!

强龙不压地头蛇! :enjoy:
 

Hamartia Antidote

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I think the author is party correct. Yes, the Chinese projection capability is still pretty weak compared to their Western counterparts. But the Chinese are not about to fight war in Africa, or Europe or even the Middle East. Conflicts are most likely to emerge in the East China Sea, Chinese fighters can reach Japan within 15 minutes after takeoff. So we need to consider the geographical factors as well!

This is correct and what I was trying to explain to milo monkey was that this is the opposite situation as the US. The US doesn't expect to fight any of its neighbors in a land war (Canada?, Mexico?, even anybody in South America?, Russia at the snowy Bering Strait???) The US has built its military under a global context..so of course we are dependent upon logistics! Of course we put a lot of effort into air superiority. Do people think the US has Star Trek type teleporters that can pop 2000 tanks and 1M men and all their needed equipment on the opposite side of the planet? We have to make do with what we can move quickly...which is going to limit things greatly.
 
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bolo

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I am not sure what to believe right now until there is a war than we will all find out if they are paper dragon or not.
 

Derek Yeh

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This is correct and what I was trying to explain to milo monkey was that this is the opposite situation as the US. The US doesn't expect to fight any of its neighbors in a land war (Canada?, Mexico?, even anybody in South America?, Russia at the snowy Bering Strait???) The US has built its military under a global context..so of course we are dependent upon logistics! Of course we put a lot of effort into air superiority. Do people think the US has Star Trek type teleporters that can pop 2000 tanks and 1M men and all their needed equipment on the opposite side of the planet? We have to make do with what we can move quickly...which is going to limit things greatly.

Yes, you are correct. There are so many factors we need to consider if we want to adequately predict an outcome of a possible war like in this case: China-Japan(with possible U.S involvement). Quality and Quantity of equipment are obviously important, but geographical factors are also crucial, not just the fact that China is close to Japan, but also the fact that U.S is far away, and the U.S military deployments are all over the world and the pivot to Asia is nowhere near completion. We need to also consider the morale in each nations that are involved. The anti-war sentiment in the U.S is all time high, the Americans are getting tired of U.S getting involved in everything which will affect U.S ability to fulfill its commitment. Chinese highly dependency on Foreign resource is also a problem for the Chinese side. There is also the issue with the production capability which heavily benefits China in my opinion. The fact china is still industrializing make them easier to transform into a war machine if necessary as compare to Japan or U.S. War is a complicated issue.....
 

BoQ77

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to be frank, the poster isnt unreasonable. china focused more into its domestic issue than outside. that why china still pay huge budget for just blinding its people, hiring cyber cops, ie. 2 mil. ban facebook, youtube, .. all because the fear of democracy. there is no such an issue in usa.
 

AsianLion

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China's military buildup, along with an aggressive foreign policy, has inspired a fair amount of alarm in the West. Some American policymakers consider Beijing to be Washington's only "near-peer competitor" — in other words, the only country with the military might to actually beat the U.S. military in certain circumstances.

But they're wrong. Even after decades of expensive rearmament, China is a paper dragon — a version of what Mao Zedong wrongly claimed the United States was … in 1956.

Despite a growing defense budget, China's arsenals still overflow with outdated equipment. The PLA possesses 7,580 main battle tanks, but only 450 of those tanks — the Type 98As and Type 99s — are anywhere near modern, with 125-millimeter guns, composite armor, modern suspension, and advanced fire control systems.

The other 7,130 Chinese tanks — some of which are pictured here — are the same descendants of Soviet T-55s that comprised Beijing's armored force in the late 1980s … and were obsolete even then.

China also has a lot of fighter planes. Between the People's Liberation Army Air Force and the air arm of the People's Liberation Army Navy, China boasts no fewer than 1,321 fighter aircraft, an aerial armada only slightly smaller than America's.

But China's air forces likewise maintain mostly obsolete jets. Of 1,321 fighters, only 502 are modern — 296 variants of the Russian Su-27 and 206 J-10s of an indigenous design. The remaining 819 fighters — mostly J-7s, J-8s and Q-5s — are 1960s designs built in the 1970s. They wouldn't last long in a shooting war.

The navy is in the best shape, but that's not saying much. The PLAN's destroyers and frigates are fairly new, but its first aircraft carrier Liaoning is a rebuilt Soviet ship from the 1980s. After a nine-year refit, Liaoning started sea trials in 2011.

Liaoning is half the size of an American Nimitz-class supercarrier and carries half as many planes. As Liaoning lacks a catapult, China's J-15 naval fighters must use a ski ramp to take off — and that limits their payload and range. Liaoning lacks the radar and refueling planes that give American flattops their long-range striking power.

Submarines are another problem area for the PLAN. Just over half of China's 54 submarines are modern — that is, built within the last 20 years. Beijing's modern undersea fleet includes the Shang, Han, Yuan, and Song classes. All four classes are Chinese-built. All are markedly inferior to Western designs.

The rest of China's submarines, especially its 1980s-vintage Mings, are totally obsolete.

The PLAN halted production of the nuclear-powered Shang class after only building just three boats — an ominous sign. Moreover, Beijing has placed an order with Russia for up to four Kalina-class subs, signalling a lack of faith in local designs.

One of the most visible signs of China's military rise is all the 'new', locally-designed and -produced hardware. Beijing is building new ships, aircraft, drones and tanks most of it reversed engineered from Russian technology, that, on the outside, appear to be matches for Western weapons. But we know very little about China's homemade weaponry. Specifically, we don't know if any of it really works. :lol:

Many of China's "new" weapons are actually foreign designs that Beijing's state companies have licensed, stolen, or painstakingly reverse-engineered. The Changhe Z-8 helicopter was originally the French Super Frelon. The Harbin Z-9 scout helicopter started life as the Eurocopter Dauphin. The Type 99 tank is an updated Soviet T-72.


The J-20 stealth fighter prototype, for example, has flown scores of test flights since first appearing in late 2010. The large, angular plane appears to boast long range and a large payload, but its stealthiness is hard to gauge. Its avionics, aerodynamic controls, weapons, and sensors — and especially its engines — are equally questionable.

The J-20's designers appear to be waiting on new, Chinese-developed engines to replace the prototype's Russian-made AL-31Ns. China has been working on those engines, without visible success, since the early 1990s.

It's important to remember that America's latest F-35 Joint Strike Fighter first flew in 2006 and won't be ready for combat until 2016. The United States has experience developing stealth fighters; China does not. If we allow China 10 years from first flight to combat readiness, the J-20 won't be a front-line fighter until 2021. At the earliest.

Why the Chinese military is only a paper dragon - The Week


So, all this talk of a 'super military' capability of the Chinese is just so much hogwash. It's nothing but a paper tiger....errr...paper dragon at present. It would take decades to catch up with the West. In fact it can never hope to do so.

If our Chinese friends and their allies on this forum intend to troll, they need to come out with concrete facts and figures, not spew rubbish for the heck of it.

Thank you!
 

royalharris

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Surely, chinese military is a paper dragon

American policymakers have misjudged, The biggest threat is terrorism from radical religion
 
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haidian

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The OP article was from 2014, and now all can see what happened in just 4 years time and based on that we can project 4 years from now.
 

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