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US takes aim at Israeli antitank missiles in Indian arms market

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Forum' started by Nitin Goyal, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. Nitin Goyal

    Nitin Goyal BANNED

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    NEW DELHI: Israel, better watch out! The US is going all out to shoot down the Israeli 'Spike' antitank guided missile (ATGM) with its own "Javelin" missile in the lucrative Indian arms market. Given the huge size of the Indian ATGM project, upwards of $3 billion, Israel is sure to strike back.

    But for now, the US seems to have gained the upper hand. After earlier being rebuffed by India for not agreeing to "full" transfer of technology (ToT), the US is now promising to not only "co-produce" the third-generation Javelin ATGMs, but also "co-develop" its fourth-generation version.

    "This is an unprecedented offer that we have made only to India, and no one else," said visiting US defence secretary Chuck Hagel on Saturday, a day after hard-selling joint development and production of advanced weapon systems to Prime Minister Narendra Modi and defence minister Arun Jaitley.

    There are already over a dozen such proposals from the US on the table, ranging from the Javelin, MH-60 Romeo multirole helicopters and "big data cybersecurity" to unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), mine-scattering systems and warship guns, which will now be taken forward by the revived bilateral Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI), as earlier reported by TOI.

    [​IMG]
    US marines carry Javelin missiles close to the Iraqi border in Kuwait in the morning of March 18, 2003 after George W Bush, the-then US president, gave Saddam Hussein 48 hours to leave Iraq. (Getty Images photo)

    "I will play an active role in expanding the DTTI because it's the centerpiece of our defence partnership ... As our interests align, so should our armed forces and defence systems. Bureaucratic red-tape must not bound the limits of our partnership," said Hagel.

    [​IMG]

    But the US will have to contend with Israel, even though it has now displaced the latter as the second-biggest arms supplier to India after Russia. The Indian defence acquisitions council, in fact, had almost finalized the Israeli Spike ATGMs for clearance late last year, after a series of field trials, before the US muscled its way into the race once again.

    [​IMG]
    A rocket from a shoulder fired Javelin missile explodes on a mock target during an army fire power demonstration at Range Control, High Range on September 4, 2009 in Townsville, Australia. (Getty Images photo)

    The urgent need for third-generation shoulder-fired ATGMs, which are "fire and forget" missiles, for the 1.13-million strong Indian Army cannot be overstated. The force has a huge shortfall of 44,000 ATGMs of different types, half its authorized inventory at present. Both Pakistan and China, the latter with third-generation ATGMs, are far ahead in the capability to halt and destroy enemy armoured attacks.

    The force is currently saddled with second-generation Milan (2km range) and Konkurs (4km) ATGMs, produced by Defence PSU Bharat Dynamics under licence from French and Russian companies. "Being wire-guided, they have to be directed to the target. They are not fire-and-forget missiles," said an officer.

    Moreover, the indigenous third-generation Nag ATGMs, which are vehicle and helicopter-mounted with a 4-km strike range, are still not operational despite being in the making for over 20 years. The Army has already placed an initial order for 443 Nag missiles and 13 Namicas (Nag missile-tracked carriers).

    US takes aim at Israeli antitank missiles in Indian arms market - The Times of India
     
  2. OrionHunter

    OrionHunter ELITE MEMBER

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    The Nag anti-tank missile is another in a long list of flopped projects! 20 years and these fookers can't make a missile? All these buggers involved in such projects don't want completion as they would then be out of jobs. So the best guarantee of a huge steady monthly income is to drag on these projects till the cows come home.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
  3. Echo_419

    Echo_419 ELITE MEMBER

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    I thought there was good progress on NAG & Helina & we can still use TOT gained from these missiles to improve our Indigenous versions
     
  4. OrionHunter

    OrionHunter ELITE MEMBER

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    If NAG is so successful, why are we going in for the Javelin?
     
  5. Echo_419

    Echo_419 ELITE MEMBER

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    Well becuz nag is heavier missile & will be used on APCs on the other hand Javelin is a Small portable missile.Both are of different class
     
  6. axisofevil

    axisofevil SENIOR MEMBER

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    I dont think Nag is heavier. As for Israel, its a no brainer. The US is directly responisble for the $$ and resarch that gets pumped into Israel. Why deal with the Physican's Assistant when you can deal with Physican?
     
  7. TimeToScoot

    TimeToScoot BANNED

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    Listen to the Director of RCI. At 4:20 he mentions the Nag missile.

     
  8. OrionHunter

    OrionHunter ELITE MEMBER

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    Both are top attack anti tank missiles. However, the Javelin uses two shaped-charge warheads in tandem. The weak, smaller diameter HEAT precursor charge pushes through the explosive reactive armor without setting it off, and punches a channel through it for the much larger diameter HEAT warhead, which then penetrates the target’s primary armor.

    Though the Javelin tandem HEAT warhead has proven efficient at destroying tanks, it was employed quite effectively against weapon crews, buildings, and lightly armored and unarmored vehicles in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    To make the Javelin more useful in these scenarios, the Missile Research and Development Center is developing a multi-purpose warhead (MPWH) for the Javelin missile. While it is still lethal against tanks, the new warhead has a naturally fragmenting steel warhead case that provides double the effectiveness against personnel due to enhanced fragmentation. The MPWH does not add weight or cost and has a lighter composite missile mid-body to enable drop-in replacement to current Javelin tubes.
     
  9. Echo_419

    Echo_419 ELITE MEMBER

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    This Missile Research Development Center is Indian Right?
     
  10. OrionHunter

    OrionHunter ELITE MEMBER

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    Nope! The U.S. Army Aviation and Missile Research, Development and Engineering Center (AMRDEC), is a primarily civilian organization tasked to provide research, development, and engineering technology and services to support U.S. Army aviation and missile platforms.

    It is located in Alabama, US.
     
  11. acetophenol

    acetophenol SENIOR MEMBER

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    Come on man,you know better! Nag already proved itself with the IIR seeker,the same one used in Javeline. The army but needs a mmW seeker :hitwall:
    Javellin would be a ideal successor to our Milans and will co exist with Nag.
     
  12. OrionHunter

    OrionHunter ELITE MEMBER

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    Proved? Only in controlled trials. User trials in all terrain and weather conditions will take forever!! We don't know when the NAG will get operational clearance.

    Listen to the Director of RCI. At 4:20 he mentions the Nag missile. (Posted by TimeToScoot)

    [/quote]
     
  13. Bhasad Singh Mundi

    Bhasad Singh Mundi FULL MEMBER

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    Because IA is not interested just like they are not interested in arjun

    They test indigenous missile in harsh desert environments but no such tests for faaren gold plated tech. No fucking TOT will come from all these deals. Our money will be used to run the USA military industrial complex ancd their R&D projetcs. We are truly A-Holes.
     
  14. Oldman1

    Oldman1 SENIOR MEMBER

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  15. TimeToScoot

    TimeToScoot BANNED

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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014