• Tuesday, April 7, 2020

US sanctions on Iran killing children with EB: NGO

Discussion in 'Iranian Defence Forum' started by raptor22, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. QWECXZ

    QWECXZ FULL MEMBER

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    I know you have no hostility toward Iran. I have read your posts before. And I didn't take your comment as hostile either.

    Anyway, it's easy to say that nothing is perfect when you can sit without pain and your skin is not peeling off all the time. But for people with EB who can't sit or stand on their feet because of pain, or for people with multiple sclerosis or muscular dystrophy who constantly worry about whether they'll end up on a wheelchair or need crutches, that sort of relaxed mentality does not work.

    Plus, Rouhani is responsible for the current situation. He's responsible for the JCPOA. And he used to call people who helped Iran bypass sanctions as "the sanctions tradesmen", promising that he would lift sanctions to ruin their "illegitimate businesses". Apparently those tradesmen were by far more useful than this towel-head idiot.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  2. viva_zhao

    viva_zhao FULL MEMBER

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    I am not familiar with Iran politics. Please pardon me if I am wrong.

    I think you should not blame Rouhani. China and Iran has very different political structure, but in my view we two countries share a lot of more similarity. You can't blame China government, because China government is controlled by CCP. Likewise, Iran government is controlled by Khamenei and IRGC.

    As I said before, Rouhani and Ahmadinejad are two sides of one coin. Iran play the tricks with Yankees, and Yankees use Democrats or Republican Party for good cop/bad cop game.

    Iran choose the hard way, if you guys succeeded, Iran past glory can revive. You guys had a grand ancient civilization in history, only a few countries can say so. China is one of a few, Turkey is another one.

    Many ancient civilizations disappeared, or dying, such as Arab Empire, Ancient Egypt, Greece. Some shrank badly, such as France, British Empire, Soviet Union, Ottoman. Some in unhealthy condition, such as India. Some are modern colonization controlled indirectly, such as Japan, Germany.

    Iran is fighting for greater future, you guys will suffer a lot. I am Chinese, I admire Iran civilization a lot, and I like Iran a lot. But long way to go to revive your glory, and much more sacrifice will be needed.
     
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  3. QWECXZ

    QWECXZ FULL MEMBER

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    We're off topic. I think we really need a politics thread to discuss these issues separately.
    I know that it might seem like Rouhani and Ahmadinejad are two sides of the same coin and Khamenei and the IRGC are the main players, but that's not true and they have pursued radically different foreign policies.

    Here's a list of things that changed after Rouhani took office:
    1. Since you're Chinese, you must know that unlike Ahmadinejad who valued our cooperation with countries like China, Russia, India, Pakistan, Brazil, Venezuela, Eastern European countries, South American and African countries, Rouhani won his presidential campaign by rejecting that foreign policy and suggested that we must increase our trade with European countries instead. As a result, the growing volume of trade between Iran and China stopped its growth soon after he was elected. We didn't have an ambassador in China for months. He reduced our ties with Venezuela who always sided with Iran in the OPEC. He reduced our ties with Eastern European countries like Belarus and Ukraine.

    2. Rouhani called Iranian companies who produced products that were sanctioned as "sanctions tradesmen" and as soon as the JCPOA was signed, he imported everything (whether we could produce it locally or not) from Europe and the USA. He went as far as even subsidizing foreign products to "help the economy grow" while in reality many newly established companies lost their market and had to shut down completely. French companies like Peugeot, Renault or Total which had broken their contracts with Iran unilaterally were allowed to enter Iran again.

    3. People like Babak Zanjani who helped Iran bypass US sanctions were imprisoned and sentenced to death. People like Zangeneh (his oil minister) who was involved in a scandalous deal called "the Crescent" were reinstated. The Ahmadinejad administration had proven in Court of Arbitration that the Crescent deal was signed with bribery (and hence it wasn't effective) to save Iran years of exporting cheap gas to Emirates. The fate of the deal is unclear after Zangeneh was reinstated as the Minister of Oil.

    4. Rouhani let European companies enter sensitive organizations in Iran which resulted in espionage and data collection against Iran's interests.

    5. Rouhani supports the policy of negotiations and even though he doesn't dare to admit it, but he supports another deal like the JCPOA to discuss Iran's missiles. He also delayed Iran's space program to please his European allies for 4 years. Back in 2015, he talked about JCPOA II and JCPOA III.

    6. Last but not least, he signed the nuclear deal which is by far the worst political decision Iran has made after accepting to hold a referendum over Bahrain's independence in the last 100 years.
     
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  4. viva_zhao

    viva_zhao FULL MEMBER

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    If what you said is true, I am puzzled. Because in the meantime, IRGC involved in Syria deeply and it irritated the Western power.

    All those economical honey can't calm down the west, they are not that shortsighted.
     
  5. raptor22

    raptor22 SENIOR MEMBER

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    When we have secretary of state saying "if Islamic Republic of Iran wants its people be able to eat it must do what we tell it to do" or "Sanctions are there to make people frustrated to the point to stand against their own government" then blame lies on those whom use negotiation as tools and nothing important for them but their interests ...
    Surly administration must do more it ls like to say it's true that murderer kills but blame lies on the victim for putting himself before the bullet ...
     
  6. HAIDER

    HAIDER ELITE MEMBER

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    Forced people to use public transportation and electric powered vehicles. Follow UK and German laws of transportation.
     
  7. QWECXZ

    QWECXZ FULL MEMBER

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    The IRGC does not receive commands from the president. That's why Rouhani has failed to change the IRGC's policies and they try to put the blame on the IRGC to escape from their responsibilities and failures.
     
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  8. Battle of Waterloo

    Battle of Waterloo BANNED

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    I think you both make valuable points and there is no need for hostility or argument from either side.

    But just on this point, customs isn't going to check the effectiveness of medicines! They only check permits and procedural things and levy import duties etc.

    I don't know if Chinese pharmaceuticals are in fact lower quality and I would have to see some research on that before I believed it.

    First of all the blame has to go to those who impose the inhumane sanctions.

    Secondly, this kind of situation is not unique to Iran. Not as extreme but in the UK even with the NHS they only offer certain treatments/medicines based on a cost-benefit analysis. If it is too expensive for the life improvement benefit received, the NHS will not pay for it and you cannot get it here and must go abroad to pay for it yourself. There are controversies about this because often this means that the latest breakthrough treatments are not available here so people have to go to Switzerland or Germany (or the US) to get it which is very expensive so usually they just have to suffer with comparatively inferior treatment and lose healthy life because of that. So the cost-benefit analysis is something everyone deals with, and with illegal US sanctions that impede imports of even humanitarian goods and and incompetent government that makes the issue 100 times worse.

    You said IRGC do not answer to Rouhani. So why don't IRGC continue their black market trade/smuggling for these medicines themselves? Rouhani cannot stop them.

    Lastly, blaming Rouhani for JCPOA is very superficial. I would say Rouhani is not responsible for the underlying causes of what led to the JCPOA, but actually he was around those times too, but the problem didn't start with him and if you read his books he talks about the origins of the dispute and the mistakes/lies previous administrations made (this in particular was very important but I won't write about it in specifics) and how that aggravated the Europeans and Russians and that the US was just looking for an excuse and they got it.
     
  9. zartosht

    zartosht FULL MEMBER

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    couple of points worth mentioning.

    Iran is one of (if not THE) country with the most off day holidays on earth. the government should not be so trigger happy to call random holidays if its a recurring problem. other solutions have to be explored.

    Also one thing the pro-Ahmadinejad crowd forgets. During his reign oil prices were above 100$ for the most part. one of the biggest eras of revenue that could have been used to significantly improve Irans infastracture was pissed away by an idiot giving people cash handouts to win votes. and causing extra inflation that hurt the poor the worse in the process..

    literally the dumbest president in Islamic republic history.

    Rouhani dealt with suffocating sanctions that preveneted oil revenue (sanctions that ahmadinejads clownish behavior made easier for the western countries to pass)

    low oil prices and a supply glut that made it easy to boycott Iran.. you need to factor all these things in when making a rouhani and Ahmadi comparison

    Ahmadinejad was the dumbest Iranian political leader since the Qajar times
     
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  10. QWECXZ

    QWECXZ FULL MEMBER

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    Customs doesn't check it. They send it to a medical university to check it. You can't get the permit for importing something health-related without sending a sample of it to the nearest medical university to verify its effectiveness and safety.


    The blame has to go to those people who tried to whitewash the crimes of those who imposed sanctions on us by blaming it on the previous administration's policies. Now that it's their turn they're doing a lot worse than the previous administration.

    The UK is not Iran's role model. One of the many promises that Rouhani made during his presidential campaign was to resolve the issue of sanctions on pharmaceuticals and he blamed it on the previous administration and their mismanagement. Didn't he?

    Because importing pharmaceuticals is not their job. It's the Ministry of Health that must take care of it. If the IRGC is supposed to do everything, why do we need a president then?

    LOL. Rouhani is directly responsible for the JCPOA. He signed a very one-sided deal against our interests and advertised it as a victory for his administration. He is also directly responsible for the things that happened during Khatami's presidency in 2003 which were very similar in nature to what happened after the JCPOA. And yes, he's partly responsible for Iran's nuclear crisis. During the negotiations with E3 in 2004, Iran confessed that it had worked on plutonium reprocessing secretly. This was a turning point in Iran's nuclear standoff with the west. He was the chief negotiator then.

    Iran's infrastructure was significantly improved in all areas during Ahmadinejad's presidency. We can discuss it any time you want. Ahmadinejad inaugurated carbon fiber factory. Rouhani inaugurated corn puffs factory. That's the difference between them.

    You are ignoring the fact that air pollution causes economic damage too. In long run, the economic damage of air pollution is not less than calling schools off to reduce it. Also, your Rouhani's thugs and thieves (like Masoumeh Ebtekar) claimed that it was the gasoline produced in Iran that caused the air pollution in Tehran. Didn't they? For a stupid excuse like that, they shut down gasoline production in Iran and imported gasoline but Tehran's air pollution never became better. LOL

    Rouhani claimed to have lifted economic sanctions on Iran after the JCPOA. That means they could access more than 200 billion dollars of money that was blocked during Ahmadinejad. That's more than 3 years of oil revenues at its peak price. What did they do with it? Where is it?

    In any comparison, Rouhani is a stupid clown in front of Ahmadinejad. And he's by far the worst clown that Iran has seen since when the Iranian civilization started and probably before that.
     
  11. viva_zhao

    viva_zhao FULL MEMBER

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    Can someone tell me why Iran keep using US dollars, reserve US dollars instead of Chinese Yuan/Gold/Ruble?

    as long as Iran reserve US dollars, you don't have much bargaining chip, sanctions on Iran can NOT be easier.
     
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  12. QWECXZ

    QWECXZ FULL MEMBER

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    On paper, we are reducing our US dollar reserves. We are trading with China, Russia, India, Turkey, Venezuela (and possibly some other countries) using local currencies only. And our gold reserves are increasing every year. However, we still need dollar for trading with other countries. Some countries do not accept any currency other than US dollar or Euro unfortunately. And both of these currencies can be weaponized against us.
     
  13. viva_zhao

    viva_zhao FULL MEMBER

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    I mean you could reserve Chinese Yuan/Gold/Ruble/Rupee/copper/diamond/bitcoin or anything else other than your enemy's currency. You can hide some US dollar somewhere, but when Iran need to use more US dollar, Iran just exchange your Chinese Yuan/Gold/Ruble/Rupee/copper/diamond/bitcoin to US dollars.

    Iran will suffer some exchange lost for sure, but it's still much cheaper than sanction. Your 200 billions USD reverse completely frozen under sanction.

    I don't get it. Isn't national security higher than anything else?

    China fought for it, North Korea fought for it. You can negotiate with your enemies once you are capable to nuke them. Before that, you have lower hands, and your faith depends on your enemies mercy.

    North Korean famine, did North Korea give in? Not at all. North Korean is poorer than most of Iranians, but no one can look down upon them with Nukes and ICBM in hands.

    You see how Orange Head threatened North Korea and bows to Kim Jong-un later?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  14. QWECXZ

    QWECXZ FULL MEMBER

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    We are doing exactly what you said (raising our non-Dollar and non-Euro reserves), but the problem with the US sanctions is that many countries are following them because their volume of economic trade with the US is a lot higher than their volume of economic trade with us. And many of these countries need the US, but they don't need us. The US trades with the US dollar and Arab oil producers accept only the US dollar for selling oil. So, many countries want to be paid dollar instead of other currencies.

    Also, the US dollar is not the only issue. The main issue is that the whole international banking network is controlled by companies linked to the US directly or indirectly. Take SWIFT as an example. The US monitors all transactions in SWIFT and dictates her policies to it. As long as there is no independent banking system for international transactions, the US hegemony over the world's economy will stay. Russia is trying to develop a new system to replace SWIFT. That's a good initiative. China and other sovereign nations must join it and create their own replacement systems.

    North Korea is not a successful example in our opinion. North Korea has isolated itself from the rest of the world. North Korea is a living hell. Our military doctrine is doing well in the region and there are no major threats threatening our national security at the moment. Our conventional military power with the help of our regional allies is nothing to mess with. Even if Iran has nukes, we won't use it against the US in anyway. No sane country would attempt to nuke a country who has the upper hand in the number of nukes, has a bigger area, has early warning radars that can detect a projectile long before it gets close to their shores, has an integrated network of air defense systems in the West and the East of the country and has military bases with strategic nukes right next to it.

    We cannot nuke the USA without getting vaporized first. Why should we even follow a North Korean model then? North Korea stands no chance against the US either. The only reason that the US cares about North Korea is because it is committed to protect Japan and South Korea (being two of its major allies) and the US is worried about the Chinese expansion and sees North Korea as a Chinese puppet. Other than that, North Korea poses no threat to the US whatsoever.
     
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  15. viva_zhao

    viva_zhao FULL MEMBER

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    Make sense.

    Iran overall is the best player in ME, your culture/language/religion heritage extended far beyond Iran border. I think Iran Revolution in 1979 is the one of the most important history moment in modern history.

    But I think Iran should be more patient, and control your hostility. US is moving his force and weight from EU/ME to East Asia, Iran will get better chances and opportunities later.

    The Syria civil war, create huge power vacuum, it ends well. Iran get a big share of the pie, and increased influence. If the revival of Iran continue for next 2-3 decades, the geopolitics of ME will be completely changed.

    The decline of US seems unavoidable, China will check US power in East Asia for sure and more or less worldwide. US will have to give up some privilege in ME, and Iran has big big bargaining chip.

    Last but not least, I think Iran should make friend with China for long term national interest. If what you said is true about Rohani, I think it's unwise. It's not about economy only, it's about Iran international position in new world order, and definitely China would like to share more power than US in the new arrangement.

    What I heard is, after JCPOA, China didn't get much projects. Most projects go to European companies pocket. I think China is kind of pissed off, and less motivated to challenge US on sanctions. China keep low volume oil trade with Iran, but not ideal situation.
     
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