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US B-52 flying over Kandahar

Patriot forever

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US can still use Pakistan airspace ad they have not fully vacated Afghanistan. The Musharraf era agreement is still valid.
The agreement is not from musharraf era but was renewed by ppp, Raza Rabbani was the one who overviewed the draft. The agreement is still valid, i personally dont think it will be renewed once it expires under current government.

The point is what will we do if they pass anyhow?
 

airmarshal

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The agreement is not from musharraf era but was renewed by ppp, Raza Rabbani was the one who overviewed the draft. The agreement is still valid, i personally dont think it will be renewed once it expires under current government.

The point is what will we do if they pass anyhow?
They technically cant once they withdraw. Or it will be breach of our acclaimed 'sovereignty'.

The point is, if you are a beggar, no one is going to listen to you.
 

bachebaziszn

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Well if you're talking FN-16 and Anza Mk.II MANPADs those still have less altitude capability (3500m to 4000m) than the flight envelope of these bombers when they drop bombs (about 6000m). Then they also will have infra Red seeker defences and of course chaffs/flares...

It's not like the Taliban have not tried using SAMs before (SA-7s smuggled from Iran), but gotta face it, you need a minimum level of training and smarts to launch these things, which in short supply with the Taliban.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/majornews/1558756/Taliban-in-first-heat-seeking-missile-attack.html
Yes they wouldn't be able to threaten bombers anyways but if they could shoot down AAF helis it would be gameover.

i think one key reason no one has given manpads to talibs is the potential consequences. Imagine it proliferates and TTP start taking pakistani choppers out the sky. Same reason US didnt leave behind anything too precious for the ANA.
 

Patriot forever

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B52s are causing many reported civilian casualties and have stalled the speedy takeover of major Afghan cities.

Yes civilian casualties definately but also taliban casualties (not that heavy unless they target a convoy or a gathering, generally units are scattered and know the drill).


For example in Lashkarghah where they control 9 districts out of 10. The mistake Taliban are making is avoiding heavy armament such as mortars spg vbied or their rockets, as they want to minimize the critical infrastructure damage so if they take over the city they can manage/administer the city easily.

Time is the most crutial, the longer they take to subdue the last few locations the longer their fighters are exposed to air attacks. They need to level the few remaining buildings like governor house, NDS directorate, ( police compound is 3/4th in their control) and clear PD1.

Than go for bost airfield and base.

B 52 is somewhat manageable in cities but C-130 is very destructive.
 

FuturePAF

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Well if you're talking FN-16 and Anza Mk.II MANPADs those still have less altitude capability (3500m to 4000m) than the flight envelope of these bombers when they drop bombs (about 6000m). Then they also will have infra Red seeker defences and of course chaffs/flares...

It's not like the Taliban have not tried using SAMs before (SA-7s smuggled from Iran), but gotta face it, you need a minimum level of training and smarts to launch these things, which in short supply with the Taliban.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/majornews/1558756/Taliban-in-first-heat-seeking-missile-attack.html
Stinger training in the 80s was simple, a model helicopter or picture of a helicopter on a string between two buildings of different heights. The model or picture slides down the string and when it’s the right size the person is told to pull the trigger. All in all cost US $16 in the 1980s according to the US veteran who developed it was describing it in a recent podcast. Probably easier now.

Yes civilian casualties definately but also taliban casualties (not that heavy unless they target a convoy or a gathering, generally units are scattered and know the drill).


For example in Lashkarghah where they control 9 districts out of 10. The mistake Taliban are making is avoiding heavy armament such as mortars spg vbied or their rockets, as they want to minimize the critical infrastructure damage so if they take over the city they can manage/administer the city easily.

Time is the most crutial, the longer they take to subdue the last few locations the longer their fighters are exposed to air attacks. They need to level the few remaining buildings like governor house, NDS directorate, ( police compound is 3/4th in their control) and clear PD1.

Than go for bost airfield and base.

B 52 is somewhat manageable in cities but C-130 is very destructive.
Unless they have manpads
 
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Gangetic

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Stinger training in the 80s was simple, a model helicopter or picture of a helicopter on a string between two buildings of different heights. The model or picture slides down the string and when it’s the right size the person is told to pull the trigger. All in all cost US $16 in the 1980s according to the US veteran who developed it was describing it in a recent podcast.

Unless they have manpads
The Afghan military uses helicopters to ferry their special forces around because the Taliban occupies all the surrounding roads. Manpads would basically knock them out of the picture.
 

FuturePAF

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Yes they wouldn't be able to threaten bombers anyways but if they could shoot down AAF helis it would be gameover.

i think one key reason no one has given manpads to talibs is the potential consequences. Imagine it proliferates and TTP start taking pakistani choppers out the sky. Same reason US didnt leave behind anything too precious for the ANA.
Even the helos can be taken out by anti-helo mines. The Chinese might not care about the consequences of giving out a 100 or so manpads, as retaliation for the sailing through the South China Sea. They could keep shipping them as leverage. Also the Chinese may veto an Indian resolution at the UNSC to send UN peacekeepers, in this new era of wolf warrior diplomacy.
 
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FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

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The Chinese might not care about the consequences of giving out a 100 or so manpads
I think shooting down a couple of US aircraft will speed the Taliban victory, as the Stingers did for the Mujahideen. Uncle Sam might get pretty angry, but then it's time to flush them out of the entire region.
 

FuturePAF

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The Afghan military uses helicopters to ferry their special forces around because the Taliban occupies all the surrounding roads. Manpads would basically knock them out of the picture.
And well placed anti-helo mines near LZs (range 500 meters) which would look like the baglan province shoot down from earlier this year
I think shooting down a couple of US aircraft will speed the Taliban victory, as the Stingers did for the Mujahideen. Uncle Sam might get pretty angry, but then it's time to flush them out of the entire region.
The stinger were given out in 1986 and by 1988 the Soviets left. But Uncle Sam may double down if their aircraft get hit. Back channel signals that they have manpads my end the strikes and help both sides save face.
 
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FuturePAF

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At the end of the day, the Taliban is the winner….

The Taliban should be destroying the helipads, airports, depots and choppers on the ground….

B-52s alone can’t win wars….
Air power alone doesn’t win wars, but don’t under-estimate the role air power plays. But as General Miley said; this is about “Will” and “Leadership” . We will see who has the stronger will and leadership when this is all said and done.

There are estimates (by the US), that during the Korean War, at the battle of the chosin reservoir, up to 60,000 Chinese died assaulting the UN position, in large part due to air power and artillery. But Chinese will was stronger and they took the position and managed to push UN Troops back. Mao’s own son fought and was killed in the Korean War, but the CCP kept going, which is why there is a North Korea today.
 
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FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

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US sends in B-52s in desperate bid to stop the Taliban seizing key Afghan cities - where British troops fought and died - as fighters seize prison and set all the inmates free in latest town to fall
  • B-52 bombers and AC-130 Spectre gunships are attacking Taliban terrorists
  • The Taliban have been advancing across Afghanistan as the US withdraws
  • The Afghan army and Air Force have struggled against Taliban insurgents
  • The UK government has advised all Britons to leave Afghanistan immediately
 

Patriot forever

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US sends in B-52s in desperate bid to stop the Taliban seizing key Afghan cities - where British troops fought and died - as fighters seize prison and set all the inmates free in latest town to fall
  • B-52 bombers and AC-130 Spectre gunships are attacking Taliban terrorists
  • The Taliban have been advancing across Afghanistan as the US withdraws
  • The Afghan army and Air Force have struggled against Taliban insurgents
  • The UK government has advised all Britons to leave Afghanistan immediately
Someone needs to give them manpads.

B-52 are armoured and fly high, simple manpads wont bring it down. Need sophisticated ones.

Sneak some from Yemen or Syria?
 

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