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Undo 18th Amendment

H!TchHiker

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or you mean to say Karachites and Punjabis are educated people unlike others?either way you are insulting other province people by judging on behalf of them

how is south punjab secretariat already setup in Multan
No , this only means there is no voice of small provinces ...you can't make federation strong by making capital strong ...
 

saiyan0321

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51% of the total voting seats. A super majority is 60% i believe.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Majority is indeed 51 percent but it is subdivided into two types.

Single party majority aka one single party has won the majority seats in the parliament. Such governments are stable.
Then we have multi party majority aka one where no single party has majority and the party has to form coalitions. These types are hung parliaments where the government is very unstable and very weak.

Super majority are divided into such types as well but you are both right and wrong because super majority depends on an impressive performance and is supposed to include a majority which is unimpeded most notable in amendments. Thus it could be 60% or 65% or the most common term 75%. In pakistan a super majority is a majority above 75 since that allows the ability of the parliament to amend the constitution.
 

Abdulrehman 2978

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You living under rock. ? You need 2/3rd majority to bring changes to constitution.

PTI don't have 2/3rd majority in NA, and it have less seats than Opposition in senate. Forget about it. Let's work for PTI's 2/3rd majority in 2023 elections.
Count some members of opposition too.
 

saiyan0321

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You living under rock. ? You need 2/3rd majority to bring changes to constitution.

PTI don't have 2/3rd majority in NA, and it have less seats than Opposition in senate. Forget about it. Let's work for PTI's 2/3rd majority in 2023 elections.
Not just 2/3rd. They need majority in every single provincial parliament since every single amendment that brings changes to the powers of the province needs to be ratified by the provincial assembly. Infact many lawyers in pakistan argue whether the 18th amendment could even be legally rolled back since the parliament is also contained in amending the constitution since article 239 sub article 5 and 6 have been defined by the courts to be not as expansive as zia envisioned especially the no court can question part.
 

RealNapster

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Not just 2/3rd. They need majority in every single provincial parliament since every single amendment that brings changes to the powers of the province needs to be ratified by the provincial assembly. Infact many lawyers in pakistan argue whether the 18th amendment could even be legally rolled back since the parliament is also contained in amending the constitution since article 239 sub article 5 and 6 have been defined by the courts to be not as expansive as zia envisioned especially the no court can question part.
So what we need is another Zia or Musbi type person with full (open) backing of establishment who will enforce the required changes on each provincial assembly and will implement the updated constitution.
And than rule for 10 years atleast so that stability can be brought to the society and country on every major front (economic front specially and re-education of Political support base).
 

saiyan0321

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So what we need is another Zia or Musbi type person with full (open) backing of establishment who will enforce the required changes on each provincial assembly and will implement the updated constitution.
And than rule for 10 years atleast so that stability can be brought to the society and country on every major front (economic front specially and re-education of Political support base).
Establishment doesn't support anybody for ten years. Both MUSHARRAF and zia found themselves alone after sometime. Ayub was no different. Some of their instigators turn against them. Yahya khan for Ayub and Mahmud Ahmed for MUSHARRAF and most of those guys only think about themselves and securing their own central power and by doing so they create more damage. Infact Ayub would post 1968 would be found contemplating as to where it went wrong and why did he lose all the support and so suddenly.
I think it is far better to focus on the political route and actually create political evolution and through political evolution bring forth constitutional revolution ( aka the changing republic) and bring reforms that are proper and acceptable and actually help the country.
 

Verve

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Secondly to make a new province you need 2/3 in the provincial assembly as well.
Establishment wants to neutralise PMLN for good (their play is to take on one at a time) hence Zardari is being given dheel (eternal bail in all cases) in return for the formation of the South Punjab province. Gillani is big PPP influencer in South Punjab.

I do not think IK will go for this with PPP.
 

crankthatskunk

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IT'S LEGISLATION TIME. As government and allies have simple majority in NA+senate. Can they get rid of 18th Amendment?
If I am not wrong, to repeal 18th , we need 3/4 majority.
18th must be repealed. Dar should be brought back, charged and convicted under article 6.
Zardari is making huge amount of money due to 18th. He has gone into billionaire's club, that is dollar billionaires.
 

RealNapster

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Establishment doesn't support anybody for ten years. Both MUSHARRAF and zia found themselves alone after sometime. Ayub was no different. Some of their instigators turn against them. Yahya khan for Ayub and Mahmud Ahmed for MUSHARRAF and most of those guys only think about themselves and securing their own central power and by doing so they create more damage. Infact Ayub would post 1968 would be found contemplating as to where it went wrong and why did he lose all the support and so suddenly.
I think it is far better to focus on the political route and actually create political evolution and through political evolution bring forth constitutional revolution ( aka the changing republic) and bring reforms that are proper and acceptable and actually help the country.
Wo Sab sai Hy, par hona ni Hy... There is a chance my suggested path won't work in long term. But your suggest way is a big no. I have 0 hopes from our political class and society overall that we will get that much mature to bring those changes you mentioned.
 

saiyan0321

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Wo Sab sai Hy, par hona ni Hy... There is a chance my suggested path won't work in long term. But your suggest way is a big no. I have 0 hopes from our political class and society overall that we will get that much mature to bring those changes you mentioned.
Brother then no dictator will ever be able to leave long term impacts without the society itself not changing. If the people don't change then nobody not even prophets could succeed. Societal maturity is key here and when the society matures, everything else will nature itself. The political class will evolve with the society at Large otherwise nothing will change and as you can see nothing has changed. Even the most strongest of dictators would be swayed by the society itself and would find themselves powerless since proper change would require changes in the establishment as well.
 

AZADPAKISTAN2009

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If a Law is not benefiting Pakistan as a whole and it's People it is time to review it

Budget is not to be used for distribution to Sindh Rich class so they can buy more Exotic cars,
have army of servants , and move financial assets overseas buy hotels , vacation villas and apartment buildings overseas

Poor Class is strigguling

a) Karachi has no garbage collection , and every portion beside defence area and posh areas is a disaster
b) Gawadar poor have no boats or villas made for them
c) No major forestry projects in Cities
d) All sports ministries struggling beside Cricket
e) All Universities and Schools struggling to provide good quality education universally
f) Lahore ho ya Karachi , when it rains it floods key infrastructure and destroys property

  • Mean while , Nawaz Sharif has 10 Bhains , he has helicopter delivering Nihari , his family can escape Jail Time
  • Zardari has countless cases of money laundering yet , Us Ka Bach kehta hai , Jab Barish ziyada hota hai to Pani Ziyada ata hai
  • Fazlu is drinking 80 Lakh Rupee Lassi in 1 year !!!! 80,0000USD spent on Lassi drinking in 1 year
 

Air Wolf

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Establishment wants to neutralise PMLN for good (their play is to take on one at a time) hence Zardari is being given dheel (eternal bail in all cases) in return for the formation of the South Punjab province. Gillani is big PPP influencer in South Punjab.

I do not think IK will go for this with PPP.
But to make South Punjab province, the resolution has to be passed by Punjab assembly where PPP doesn't have any considerable number of seats. The only big parties there are PLMN and PTI and PLMN will never let PTI to move forward with this. First of all they think of Punjab as their personal property and won't allow anybody to divide it. Secondly which ever government is able to finally make a new province, it will be huge in terms of political dividends.
 

RealNapster

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Brother then no dictator will ever be able to leave long term impacts without the society itself not changing
Take example of erdogan and Turkey before him. And look at turkey now. I am sure 1 person can bring that much change be it a civilian or general. But a general bring with him too much background support. He bring support of a cult. Look at IK, he is more capable than Erdogan in changing views and perceptions but still he is unsuccessfull because of lack of unconditional support from that cult.
Societal maturity is key here and when the society matures, everything else will nature itself. The political class will evolve with the society at Large otherwise nothing will change and as you can see nothing has changed
In Pakistan's case this is opposed. Society is not changing its political class but instead it changed itself to justify existence of its political class
 

Verve

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But to make South Punjab province, the resolution has to be passed by Punjab assembly where PPP doesn't have any considerable number of seats. The only big parties there are PLMN and PTI and PLMN will never let PTI to move forward with this. First of all they think of Punjab as their personal property and won't allow anybody to divide it. Secondly which ever government is able to finally make a new province, it will be huge in terms of political dividends.
There are a lot of PMLN and other parties MPAs from South Punjab - we just don't know yet if they will favour it or not. Making this province is just not about party alliances and memberships.
 

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