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Understanding the Article 370

Indo-guy

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Why would it be political suicide ? Kashmir has only 6 Lok Sabha seat of a total of 543 :P

Non of the other muslims in India support this special status to kashmir. Non of the other states support this special status either. Its just a matter of time.

Such an act as that of abrogating article 370 can have long term serious repercussions On relations between India and Kashmir ...

It will be a fodder to separatists movement in Kashmir and so called ' loyalists ' to federation will also be immediately pushed to take anti India stance ...

Such action will be obviously destabilizing one ...in already frail peace in Kashmir .

and no party or government will like to create such unstability and volatility which may necessitate imposition of martial law or emergency in Kashmir . Such situation will be exploited by Pakistan to the very hilt and will create untoward international diplomatic situation for India .

Hence all governments no matter how strong they may be in terms of number of states and number of MPS they have, will never venture into such political 'quagmire' which has capacity to drown any government in its turmoil ....and put national security at risk ....

The status quo will always be maintained for this reason alone .

article 370 is therefore here to stay ....nobody will touch it....not that nobody can't ....but that doesn't matter in the end ...Nobody will ...

All the talk by Narendra modi about reviewing article 370 is mere hogwash ....and political stunt ! ( nothing more need to be read in between the tow different lines spoken by Narendra Modi and subsequently by Rajnath Singh )


No rat is brave enough to bell the cat ....Even if that's the ultimate solution agreed ...!


We will have to look at other solutions ...with totally new perspective !!!
 

Jf Thunder

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Btw did Modi really congratulate muslims of Gujarat because he thought they were "celebrating" Muharram??
muharram should be celebrated as new year, but some people just dont let go of the past, and beat the shit out of them for something that is part of 1400 year old history
 

Indo-guy

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@kurup
Good one!!!:tup:
Just FYI
Not just J&K is the country's only state with a constitution of its own in addition to the Indian constitution, both of which are concomitantly applicable but also Kashmir has a state flag (country within a country...wow!!) and till 1963, the chief minister was called Wazir-e-Azam (prime minister) and the governor as Sadr-e-Riyasat (head of state).
About women's property rights ...well it can be amended or modified by the state legislature but legal experts argue the extension of Article 370 to Kashmir is a fate accompli that has to be there whether one likes it or not.(more like a threatening....which means done section still believe Kashmir acceded to India only because of this article)

IMO Modi raked up the contentious issue because he is rehashing and dishing out the the old canard of BJP in a somewhat different idiom for reaping electoral dividends. I am personally against the use of article 370....but Modi's "Lalkar" rally was done purely for vote bank.

Btw did Modi really congratulate muslims of Gujarat because he thought they were "celebrating" Muharram??:devil:

Flag of Jammu and Kashmir ...




Kashmir is the only state in India to have separate flag ...


Even as Prime Minister of India when he is on visit to Kashmir ...his official tour must display Flag of Kashmir ...!!!



and as you rightly pointed till 1965 it had separate Prime minister and president...which was off course changed by state assembly amendment .

in fact this was the reason for famed slogan by late Shaymaprasad Mukherjee that

" Ek Desh aur Do Pradhan , Do Nishan , Do Vidhan

Nahi Chalenge ....Nahi Chalenge "
 
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Indo-guy

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Some constitutional experts are of the logic that hence “Instrument of Accession” was unconditional and Article 370 was created later by the Indian Parliament, the Article 370 can be abolished by a Presidential Note prepared by the Union Parliament and it will not affect the integration of J&K into India in any way. But, there are other views also.

Here is the copy of the Instrument of accession that is available on the internet ...

It clearly suggests that accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India was unconditional ...!!!
 

Excelias

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Let it stay,I see no reason to revoke it and infuriate the J&K people.Use it as a carrot and stick,if they behave in national interest let them have this special status.If they make mischief we can always cut off those huge subsidies.Azadi may be romantic but in reality doesn't feed anyone.
 

Levina

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muharram should be celebrated as new year, but some people just dont let go of the past, and beat the shit out of them for something that is part of 1400 year old history
The trouble was when Modi congratulated the Shia's of the state on muharram.
 
Oct 17, 2013
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For non Kashmiris, this is not an important issue as of now. But if such a move is made, it will grab the headlines, and will be talked across the country, and other parties will inflame sentiments through legitimate or misplaced fears. Allies in the coalition - assuming that the next govt will be a coalition, and not an absolute majority - will make their displeasure felt, as they would not want to lose votes in their constituencies.

It is not logic or reason that dictates whether a certain move will bring votes or lose them. For example, the BJP wanted to bring in FDI when it was in power, but when the congress did, they opposed it. Everyone knows that the food security bill is a bad idea, but if the BJP comes to power, do ou think they will scrap it? Catchphrases like "anti poor'' will hurt them electorally. Why do you think the NDA govt did not scrap 370?
Of course such moves will grab headlines. Even a single rape grabs headlines now days. That as such is a non issue if there is a political will.

Obviously it will not be a NDA agenda, only a BJP agenda along with uniform civil code. BJP is for FDI but not in Retail, especially without quid pro quo. Food security is not a bad idea, it is already implemented in multiple states in India. Only the central plan was a bad plan with HUGE loop holes.

Constituitional amendment such as one required to abrogate Article 370 requires 2/3'rd majority in both houses of parliament besides it needs to ratified by more than half of the state assemblies ...

It is 'practically' speaking near impossible task ....

So 'theoretically' it is possible but under current circumstances ' practically ' it is impossible ...


Technically speaking Omar Abdullah is wrong ....A prime Minister with sweeping mandate ....can get Articale 370 abrogated. ( By sweeping mandate means the particular party interested in moving such statute ...will have to have won more than half of states and will have to have more than 2/3'rd majority in both houses at the time of voting for such statute ...)

But that will require revolution in India to take place .... !
Did you read the article ? ............ ... only a presidential writ is required. Ratification by 2/3 majority is a Red Herring to create an illusion of difficulty. The real reason is religious and lack of spine.

Such an act as that of abrogating article 370 can have long term serious repercussions On relations between India and Kashmir ...
It will be a fodder to separatists movement in Kashmir and so called ' loyalists ' to federation will also be immediately pushed to take anti India stance ...
Such action will be obviously destabilizing one ...in already frail peace in Kashmir .
and no party or government will like to create such unstability and volatility which may necessitate imposition of martial law or emergency in Kashmir . Such situation will be exploited by Pakistan to the very hilt and will create untoward international diplomatic situation for India .
Hence all governments no matter how strong they may be in terms of number of states and number of MPS they have, will never venture into such political 'quagmire' which has capacity to drown any government in its turmoil ....and put national security at risk ....
The status quo will always be maintained for this reason alone .
article 370 is therefore here to stay ....nobody will touch it....not that nobody can't ....but that doesn't matter in the end ...Nobody will ...
All the talk by Narendra modi about reviewing article 370 is mere hogwash ....and political stunt ! ( nothing more need to be read in between the tow different lines spoken by Narendra Modi and subsequently by Rajnath Singh )
No rat is brave enough to bell the cat ....Even if that's the ultimate solution agreed ...!
We will have to look at other solutions ...with totally new perspective !!!
Let me cut to the chase.

Indian constitution cannot be held hostage to Muslim Religious Fanatics. If MMS was ready to dissolve his govt. to keep his world to the US president on the Nuke deal :sick:, Any Indian PM can sure as hell ask the President to dissolve Article 370. The Political mileage in India will not be negative, like the creation of Bangladesh. Everybody loves a Hero.

Problem is we do not have Heroes anymore.
 
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Levina

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So your brilliant observation is that Modi's political rally was to gather votes ? Outstanding !!!!!! :angel: .................:hang2:
Thank you8-)

Long time Manvantaratruti.....long time.... :coffee:
Everytime you and me have clashed....my posts had to be axed ...by moi..(self moderation you see)

Let me first update on few things...brace up I might just shock you.
Last time when we met I had told you that I am not against Modi.
Then with AAP and Congress playing the grubby game of politics...I decided that IF I had to vote this time....then it'll be for Modi.
Did you faint???:devil:

But I maintain my stance that "lalkar"
rally (as it was named ) was nothing but to rake this subject once again to get some extra votes.
 

Indo-guy

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Of course such moves will grab headlines. Even a single rape grabs headlines now days. That as such is a non issue if there is a political will.

Obviously it will not be a NDA agenda, only a BJP agenda along with uniform civil code. BJP is for FDI but not in Retail, especially without quid pro quo. Food security is not a bad idea, it is already implemented in multiple states in India. Only the central plan was a bad plan with HUGE loop holes.



Did you read the article ? ............ ... only a presidential writ is required. Ratification by 2/3 majority is a Red Herring to create an illusion of difficulty. The real reason is religious and lack of spine.
I read the article . article 360 can't be abrogated by President's writ . The constitutional amendment has to be passed by Parliament of India by 2/3 rd of majority in both houses followed by ratification by more than half of the states ....

President's writ is the myth invented by author ...it has no constitutional sanction !
 
Oct 17, 2013
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I read the article . article 360 :Dcan't be abrogated by President's writ . It has to be passed by Parliament of India by 2/3 rd of majority in both houses followed by ratification by more than half of the states ....

President's writ is the myth invented by author ...it has no constitutional sanction !
LOL. Are you for real ?

Article 370 SUSPENDS Indian Constitution in Kashmir. That particular act is the one that has no constitutional sanction except by a special Presidential TEMPORARY writ. :cheesy:

Thank you8-)

Long time Manvantaratruti.....long time.... :coffee:
Everytime you and me have clashed....my posts had to be axed ...by moi..(self moderation you see)

Let me first update on few things...brace up I might just shock you.
Last time when we met I had told you that I am not against Modi.
Then with AAP and Congress playing the grubby game of politics...I decided that IF I had to vote this time....then it'll be for Modi.
Did you faint???:devil:

But I maintain my stance that "lalkar"
rally (as it was named ) was nothing but to rake this subject once again to get some extra votes.
Naa....I have seen your shift towards Modi in your posts .....it does not come as a surprise.
 

Indo-guy

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LOL. Are you for real ?

Article 370 SUSPENDS Indian Constitution in Kashmir. That particular act is the one that has no constitutional sanction except by a special Presidential TEMPORARY writ. :cheesy:
Article 370 is part and parcel of Indian constitution .

To amend any part of Indian constitution due process of amendment has to be followed .

The fact that article 370 shields Kashmir from numerous other parts of constitution has no bearing upon modus operandi required to abrogate it !!!
 
Oct 17, 2013
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Article 370 is part and parcel of Indian constitution .

To amend any part of Indian constitution due process of amendment has to be followed .

The fact that article 370 shields Kashmir from numerous other parts of constitution has no bearing upon modus operandi required to abrogate it !!!
Good Lord !!!!!!!!

And you claim you have read the article. :hitwall:

Article 370 is a TEMPORARY PROVISION THAT SUSPENDS INDIAN CONSTITUTION in Kashmir. ............ there is NO TWO ways about it.

It is NOT an Amendment in the Indian Constitution. I suggest you read up a bit before posting again.
 

janon

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...
Everybody loves a Hero.

Problem is we do not have Heroes anymore.
People love to become heroes, but not if it means they will also become martyrs. It will be a suicidal move for their political career, because all subsequent agitations and violence and strife will be blamed on them. And yes, there will be plenty of troubles. Even the elected representatives of Jammu-Kashmir, of both parties, don't want it scrapped, so you can bet that most Kashmiris will view it as a hegemonous move by India. Pak will take advantage of the situation and inflame the region. Of course, India today is in a position to crush all such activities with an iron hand, but there will be blood. And it will be blamed on the party that made the move.

It is much easier for politicians to maintain status quo.
 

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