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Ukraine Crisis, Whose position is more justified? Russia or Nato?

aziqbal

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Actually all the trouble between China and Vietnam happened when you were in military alliance with USSR, when you were "protected", after USSR collapsed, no more clashes and conflicts, Vietnam is good at 狐假虎威, when the tiger is gone, the fox becomes very gentle.


I don't think Russia needs any real help, US dares to do nothing whatsoever.

well now its end of Jan 2022 and still those 127,000 troops have not invaded

clearly Russia has succumbed to the British pressure
 

S.Y.A

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Since there is no agreement or contract or treaty, and the conversation was with Soviet leadership, not Russian, so Putin's claims dont hold any water. He should learn to live with the fact that people dont always get what they want.

Besides, Ukraine is an independent country, and not a Russian satellite, it should be free to choose its own fate (whatever USA's intentions may be).
 

beijingwalker

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Since there is no agreement or contract or treaty, and the conversation was with Soviet leadership, not Russian, so Putin's claims dont hold any water. He should learn to live with the fact that people dont always get what they want.

Besides, Ukraine is an independent country, and not a Russian satellite, it should be free to choose its own fate (whatever USA's intentions may be).
Joining Nato means military assets could be moved next to Russia's door, remember Cuba missile crisis? why US also threatened war against Cuba, an independent country, after Russia moved missiles to Cuba?
 

S.Y.A

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Joining Nato means military assets could be moved next to Russia's door, remember Cuba missile crisis? why US also threatened war against Cuba, an independent country, after Russia moved missiles to Cuba?
Well the Soviets shouldnt have backed down during cuban missile crisis, that was their decision.

besides, I am not leaning towards any side, standing back and taking in the entire situation, in an absence of a treaty, its clear that russia is trying to overstep its bounds.
 

beijingwalker

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Well the Soviets shouldnt have backed down during cuban missile crisis, that was their decision.

besides, I am not leaning towards any side, standing back and taking in the entire situation, in an absence of a treaty, its clear that russia is trying to overstep its bounds.
So words of promise are just BS not worth anything? Decent people should have good faith with their words. besides, was there a treaty between US and Russia over Cuba back then? US also threatened war against neighboring Cuba for the sake of its national security, so it is in no position to accuse Russia in this regard.
 

S.Y.A

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So words of promise are just BS not counting anything? Decent people should have good faith with their words. besides, was there a treaty between US and Russia over Cuba back then? US also threatened war against neighboring Cuba for the sake of its national security, so it is in no position to accuse Russia in this regard.
this is what you are not getting: I dont care what US does or does not do. it was Cuba and USSR's collective decision to back down after being threatened. This does not make Russian position a good one. its pure what-aboutism.

now coming to the point, that "promise" was to soviet union, and was never in writing. Russia isnt soviet union. that promise was never meant for russia. with the dissolution of soviet union, all treaties are gone. besides, Ukraine was a part of soviet union as well, and since they are okay with nato expansion, there really is no problem. what russia thinks doesnt matter, like what USA thought during cuban missile crisis didnt matter either.

now read this again:

Russia =\= USSR
 

beijingwalker

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Well the Soviets shouldnt have backed down during cuban missile crisis, that was their decision.
Soviet Union backed down for global peace, why can't US ?

now read this again:

Russia =\= USSR
This is a pathetic western excuse, please don't pretend, we all know it. Russia is the successor of Soviet Union and we all treat it as such, in Beijing , the embassy just switched the name, no thing elso changed, so was the case in every country.
 

S.Y.A

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Soviet Union backed down for global peace, why can't US ?


This is a pathetic western excuse, please don't pretend, we all know it. Russia is the successor of Soviet Union and we all treat it as such, in Beijing , the embassy just switched name, no thing elso changed, so is the case in every country.
that was soviet unions' weakness. also, it has got nothing to do with US or Russia whichever side ukraine wants to join, and sure as hell nothing to do with China or Pakistan. just some people with frail egos, who somehow got into power, showing how tall they are.

dont care about pathetic western excuses. Ukraine, too, is a successor state, and it doesnt want to hold the US to its promise, simple as that. Russia is acting exactly like the west here. both are different sides of the same coin. similarly genocidal, similarly imperialist.
 

beijingwalker

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dont care about pathetic western excuses. Ukraine, too, is a successor state, and it doesnt want to hold the US to its promise, simple as that. Russia is acting exactly like the west here. both are different sides of the same coin. similarly genocidal, similarly imperialist.
Every country does it when they see great danger coming, China joined the Korean war for the same reason.

China- Korea border, Yalu River, Enemy At Gate in 1950

641-png.801324
 

S.Y.A

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Every country does it when they see great danger coming, China joined the Korean war for the same reason.
that was a war. this is peace.

and russia has annexed parts of ukraine already. russia in the wrong here, hell, they are extremely wrong. this unjustified annexation is what caused this whole nato expansion crisis. all of this is russia's own doing.
 

beijingwalker

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that was a war. this is peace.

and russia has annexed parts of ukraine already. russia in the wrong here, hell, they are extremely wrong. this unjustified annexation is what caused this whole nato expansion crisis. all of this is russia's own doing.
You are wrong, Nato expansion happened long before Crimean crisis

0x0-jpg.811304


and russia has annexed parts of ukraine already. russia in the wrong here, hell,
Actually it was caused by Ukraine's stupidity, their color revolution made the nation ultra pro US and anti Russia, if they just didn't make trouble and just being as peaceful and neutral as other former Soviet republics, nothing would happen to the country, their idiotic policies plunged the country into this abyss.
 
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S.Y.A

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Actually it was caused by Ukraine's stupidity, their color revolution make the nation ultra pro US and anti China, if they just didn't make trouble and just being as peaceful and neutral as other former Soviet republics, nothing would happen to the country, their idiotic policies plunged the country into this abyss.
what a load of rubbish! so a country cannot decide its own fate? the people of the country cannot decide what to do with their country? you are sounding more and more like a genocidal imperialist. whatever they decided, was their decision to make, not russia's or the west's. Russia was the aggressor, and illegally occupied crimea and east ukraine. its russia's illegal imperialsit actions that have caused this whole fiasco. should japan start dictating to china what happens in china just because they conquered it once?
 

beijingwalker

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what a load of rubbish! so a country cannot decide its own fate? the people of the country cannot decide what to do with their country? you are sounding more and more like a genocidal imperialist. whatever they decided, was their decision to make, not russia's or the west's. Russia was the aggressor, and illegally occupied crimea and east ukraine. its russia's illegal imperialsit actions that have caused this whole fiasco. should japan start dictating to china what happens in china just because they conquered it once?
It's a matter of the natinal security, be realistic. It's a fact of life. Pakistan will also intervene if seeing a anti Pakistan government is forming in a neighboring country, it's just a reality in this world. besides, some history lesson for you, Japan never conquered China, surely there was a war between China and Japan, like wars fought in all other countries.
 

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