• Wednesday, November 20, 2019

UAE, India and the Rafale issue

Discussion in 'Arab Defence Forum' started by Windjammer, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Khafee

    Khafee PROFESSIONAL

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    Hmmmm another clueless idiot is making BS comments about our defence procurement, while being lost on the M2K variants, and you ask me this dumb question. Good going genius!

    I don't hate India, it just that they produce crap, and call it gold, and expect the world to buy it. Not everyone buys your media hype, even if its swaminathan from a blog on WSJ says so. You can keep quoting MOU's all day long, but show me a contract, and then we will talk.

    As @Taygibay and other people at DA, and the French MOD know, that the Rafay's aren't the only non-US a/c we are looking at, so this news is nothing but wishful thinking on your part. Keep talking nonsense, and looking like a fool.
     
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  2. randomradio

    randomradio BANNED

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    All markets you sold to are captive markets. The same as India is for Russia. No matter what, these countries will buy from France. No different from how Japan or Israel will buy from US.

    You have the best jet in the world, but no breakthrough in any new market. You haven't broken through even your own captive markets.

    Incorrect. You are bigger only for now. But by the time the Rafale line is setup in India, India will be twice France's GDP. By the time the export lines open up, India will be 3 times France's GDP. By the time the first Rafale is sold to the export market, India will be about 1/2 of the EU's GDP.

    Dude, you don't get it. The taxpayer is irrelevant. We have a GTG with your govt. Basically your taxpayer has agreed also. Your govt represents the taxpayer.

    Even your DGA is involved in India's Rafale deal.

    Dude... haha. It's part of the process.

    I don't know what that means.

    You can't negotiate strategic deals for that reason. All your oil deals are already paid for, you can't go around breaking contracts just to buy more oil from someone else.

    I don't think you have understood how this works. The only way it will work is if you want more oil and you have new contracts to sign. India's oil consumption is growing by 4-7% per year.

    Similarly, India can sign large deals with other countries as well, in exchange for other investments in power, industry etc.

    Do you know Trappier has been named as the chairman of DRAL? The Indian line is Dassault's line. Anil Ambani is the co-chairman.

    The lack of strategic gains is the reason why you have lost so many deals to the US.
     
  3. The Eagle

    The Eagle SENIOR MODERATOR

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    Members, Agree to disagree and move on. Back-up your posting with sources etc rather than making claims without any substance.
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio BANNED

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    Haha, UAE is filling up our strategic reserves for free.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-15/uae-offers-india-free-oil-ease-storage-woes

    http://www.thenational.ae/business/energy/uae-signs-first-strategic-oil-deal-with-india

    The contracts are coming, don't worry. India's contracts also start off as MoUs. The MoUs were signed only recently.

    Meh, if Dassault loses the UAE deal to another aircraft, it demonstrates that they are not even able to hold on to their most strategic partners. All it does is prove French power is waning in the defence market.
     
  5. Khafee

    Khafee PROFESSIONAL

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    Wait and see :coffee:
     
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  6. Shaji Pappan

    Shaji Pappan FULL MEMBER

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    I commented about the rafales not about your M2Ks.. Dassault is investing $4.5billion in India ( because of offset clause in rafale deal).. Dassault Reliance Aerospace Ltd is already formed.. Reliance also investing heavily to the factory in Nagpur..
    In aero India Dassault president will be Eric Trappier said that "We are making the plans of the factory, we will have to build it, train the staff. There will be several production lines, and therefore several types of parts. This requires some preparation..
    India's 36 rafales are off the shelf and they are coming from France only.. Then why dassault is investing?? In the application for CCI approval it is exactly mentioned the term " global export of fighter jets".. That means you may see Indian made Rafales in UAE airforce in future..
     
  7. Khafee

    Khafee PROFESSIONAL

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    You and your fellow countryman are telling me, where my Rafay's (if) are coming from! What are you both intoxicated on?

    This thread alone is testament to the fact why nobody with half a brain, takes you guys seriously.
     
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  8. Dash

    Dash SENIOR MEMBER

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    Im sorry I mistook you as a Pakistani that's why I asked the Mirage 2009 question.

    Thought you will not need my sorry yet it I had to say.

    Dear Indian members.

    Pls don't thump your chest. Trappier has said it's impossible to set up a production line unless there is a confirmation for 200 jets and by the time he gets 200 orders UAE would have her Rafales.

    That's a fact.
     
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  9. Khafee

    Khafee PROFESSIONAL

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    Sanity at last, Thank You!

    Being wrong and admitting to it only raises your stature, it does not decrease it.

    On the contrary, being wrong and chasing your own tail makes you look like .............
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  10. Shaji Pappan

    Shaji Pappan FULL MEMBER

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    Why you blaming Indian members about chest thumping?? Our Ministry of External Affairs Secretary Amar Sinha started this..

    He said last month "We are looking at armaments, we are looking at armored personnel carriers. We are looking at joint-production of aircraft,"
    "For example, as in the case of Rafale, which we are buying and UAE is also using (the Rafale), there is some interest. This is something that we can do together in terms of portion of the Rafale that would be built in India. Those are the areas that we are identifying and will work together," Amar Sinha added.
     
  11. Louiq XIV

    Louiq XIV FULL MEMBER

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    What the hell is going on in India ? Are they all high ?

    "UAE is also using (the Rafale)" how can you give credit to someone saying something that wrong ?

    UAE isn't using Rafale at the moment. The French Air Force has a few Rafale in a base because we have some defence agreement with the UAE (without the help of India). Those fighters are French.

    UAE may or may not buy Rafale in the future but they are not in a hurry because they have M2K-9 which are still really lethal machines.
     
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  12. Dash

    Dash SENIOR MEMBER

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    Amar Sinha can say whatever he wants, but we know what has been happening so far. There is a reason our bureaucracy is the most dreaded one. So take it with a pinch of salt and give the salt bag to the reporters reporting such.

    We live in a pragmatic world and advice you to live there too.
     
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  13. Khafee

    Khafee PROFESSIONAL

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    Well said

    :cheers:
     
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  14. Louiq XIV

    Louiq XIV FULL MEMBER

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    Dear randomradio,

    Well well well all I can say is that your sound like someone very sure of himself knowing everything.

    You pick-up unchecked information and then you add lovely dreams you mix everything with unknown timelines and you have the receipt to create doubts in every man but you.
     
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  15. randomradio

    randomradio BANNED

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    https://defence.pk/threads/uae-india-and-the-rafale-issue.477957/page-5#post-9214051
    I'm not saying India will make UAE Rafales, the Indian line will be too young for that, but I'm saying they will be supported in India.

    Man, you haven't understood what this thread is about at all. Start off from the first page.

    Anyway, the production line is happening. The 200 orders is meant for full scale ToT. Dassault says if they get 200 orders, they will be able to bring in all the heavy work possible into India. Otherwise, even if we order just 36 more, these 36 will come from an Indian line, just that more work will be done in France before they are assembled in India.

    Don't read half here, half somewhere else and then bring your half knowledge into a discussion where some of the other members are openly showing their hate for India.

    What Trappier said is they want a big bang order so they can do a deep ToT much quicker. Read the article and analyse his words properly please.
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...n-india-dassault-ceo/articleshow/57160249.cms
    However, a larger order of close to 200 Rafale jets would be ideal to transfer high end technology and manufacturing capabilities to India at a `competitive level' the senior executive has said.

    Dassault however believes that the current order of 36 jets would not be sufficient to transfer high end manufacturing or technology to India. Trappier said that extra orders would need to be placed by 2017-18 to come up with a larger Make in India plan that would involve shifting heavy work.


    http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...next-decade/story-sICe1UFTRC0RxR3wkpLCZK.html
    “Thirty six is a good number to start with but we need to build on that foundation. It is not big enough for transfer of technology,” Trappier told a select group of journalists at Aero India-2017. “We are pushing for more orders. We are aware of the Indian military’s requirements and additional orders could come.”

    The current plan is to make all Rafale spares in India, making India completely independent from import of spares. Apart from that, we will start with an assembly line also. If we are lucky, the last 20 jets of UAE's could be assembled in India. Apart from that, UAE Rafales, including a few other export countries, will get their spares and support from India. The ultimate plan is to shift the entire support structure of all international Rafales from France to India. So, only French Rafales will be supported by the French industry because of strategic reasons, while India will leverage its low cost structure and become the global hub for all international Rafales.

    Also, what he means by 200 numbers is including the 36 GTG and 57 from IN. So he is basically asking for the IN deal + an order of about 110 jets to setup a production line with deep ToT, which is easily possible.

    Trappier has been named the chairman of the Indian line. So I don't get what's the problem of the French members.

    Don't get caught up by the exact words he used. He probably means 'buying'. English is obviously not his second language.

    UAE is going for the Rafale. It is a planned purchase and India is also involved. That's where the strategic relationship is headed between the three countries.

    How is the Ministry of External Affairs Secretary unchecked information? He is talking about exporting Rafales from India to the UAE. So it's obvious that even if the UAE deal doesn't work out, Dassault is planning to export Rafales from India to other countries. I must keep reminding that Trappier is the chairman of DRAL in India. So it is in effect a Dassault run company even if Reliance holds the majority.

    Bro, on another forum there are two people with MoD access to both countries. Our information is pretty solid. We have been talking about these things for more than 2 years now.

    Have you also seen Picdel's opinion? Even he wants the Indian line to churn out 45 Rafales a year to take care of the entire international market while leaving France with only the 11 Rafales/year. He was number 4 in Dassault while he worked there. In fact, he wants France to import the AMCA for the French air force.

    You see, people high up in the chain are very comfortable dealing with India. And they want to make pragmatic decisions. Decisions that benefit both countries.