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UAE in talks to buy 120 unit of Bayraktar TB2 from Turkiye

Tank131

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Reality is that even if they lost 100 TB-2, it has so many kills attributed to it, it would not matter. Before the western nations really started pouring large scale weapons into Ukraine, it was the TB-2 which literally held the Ukrainian lines FOR MONTHS. It was so wildly successful that the UKRAINIAN MILITARY wrote songs about it. It was credited by western media and military analysts as a major factor in Azeri Aerial Supremacy during the War of Nagorno-Karabakh. It has been widely hailed by western sources as one of the key pieces of Ukrainian resistance (and most of these sources are anti-Turk). So anyone claiming it is not a successful weapon is just saying it out of spite. In 4 wars (Lybia, Syria, Nagorno-Karabakh, and Ukraine) it has destroyed 1500+ targets. So if 50, 60, or 70 or even 100 were lost (at an extreme), it is still One of, if not THE MOST successful drone in heavy warfare combat (Predators and Reapers really haven't faced the threat levels in over Afghanistan or Iraq that these have over their war zones compared to the number of sorties they have flown. Even if you give the success towards the Reapers/Predators, TB-2 is top 3 and that is against the top flight US combat drones.

Wing Loong II and Rainbow series have not had the deployment levels to achieve that success BUT im. Sure they could potentially be very potent, but to poo poo the TB-2 is just asanine
 

Corruptistan

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Reality is that even if they lost 100 TB-2, it has so many kills attributed to it, it would not matter. Before the western nations really started pouring large scale weapons into Ukraine, it was the TB-2 which literally held the Ukrainian lines FOR MONTHS. It was so wildly successful that the UKRAINIAN MILITARY wrote songs about it. It was credited by western media and military analysts as a major factor in Azeri Aerial Supremacy during the War of Nagorno-Karabakh. It has been widely hailed by western sources as one of the key pieces of Ukrainian resistance (and most of these sources are anti-Turk). So anyone claiming it is not a successful weapon is just saying it out of spite. In 4 wars (Lybia, Syria, Nagorno-Karabakh, and Ukraine) it has destroyed 1500+ targets. So if 50, 60, or 70 or even 100 were lost (at an extreme), it is still One of, if not THE MOST successful drone in heavy warfare combat (Predators and Reapers really haven't faced the threat levels in over Afghanistan or Iraq that these have over their war zones compared to the number of sorties they have flown. Even if you give the success towards the Reapers/Predators, TB-2 is top 3 and that is against the top flight US combat drones.

Wing Loong II and Rainbow series have not had the deployment levels to achieve that success BUT im. Sure they could potentially be very potent, but to poo poo the TB-2 is just asanine

Good post.

Wing Loong II and Rainbow have mostly been used in the Yemeni arena with some success. Not sure if they have been used in other conflict zones, probably in Iraq and Libya too, now that I think about it.

1500 + targets? That sounds like a lot. Do we know how many TB-2 Ukraine bought and have used so far?
 

dBSPL

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Good post.

Wing Loong II and Rainbow have mostly been used in the Yemeni arena with some success. Not sure if they have been used in other conflict zones, probably in Iraq and Libya too, now that I think about it.

1500 + targets? That sounds like a lot. Do we know how many TB-2 Ukraine bought and have used so far?
Figures quoted are based on visually proven and direct EO image recordings only. In this regard, there are sites on the Internet where photos of all neutralized targets are indexed. In fact, the total numbers announced by the defense ministries of the user countries are even higher than these. To give an example from the Turkish army, almost every week, a terrorist from the red/grey lists is neutralized in a vehicle. Visual recordings of these are also available on the internet, but they are rarely included in such indexing as they are mostly asymmetrical.

In other conflict zones mentioned, especially the most important users of Wing Loong in the region are the UAE and KSA. Why these countries started to turn to Turkish manufacturers, this is an important question.

Lastly, while this system has a rich kill list such as BUK-PANTSIR-S300, numerous electronic warfare systems and air defense radars, and even this seems to be its main area of expertise, I laughed for about 1 minute at the effort to prove the superiority of the US systems over the Afghanistan example.
 

Corruptistan

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Figures quoted are based on visually proven and direct EO image recordings only. In this regard, there are sites on the Internet where photos of all neutralized targets are indexed.

In other conflict zones mentioned, especially the most important users of Wing Loong in the region are the UAE and KSA. Why these countries started to turn to Turkish manufacturers, this is an important question.

Do you have any links to such sites or Twitter users? I am interested in such pages that keep a track of conflict zones across the world.

Quite possibly due to the desire to diversify, compare the performance of different drones in combat situations and possibly some doubts but this is just my speculation.

A lot depends on the training of the personal that use any given drone or military equipment, the geography, the opponent etc.

I remember a report, years ago, of KSA setting up a Chinese drone factory with all the latest Chiense drones of the Wing Long family but what the status quo of this factory is, I have no idea, maybe someone else will know. The status of such a factory would in a very direct way tell us about whether KSA or other customizers are content about the Chinese drones in question.

Anyway drones in isolation are not going to work on the battlefield. The Ukrainian army contrary to popular belief initially, has been trained, heavily armed and heavily aided by the most powerful army of the world (USA), EU and NATO countries. Americans have constant overview of what is going on in the Ukraine and are giving all the coordinates to the Ukrainians. For instance KSA does not have this luxury in Yemen.

Also it has to be said that the military performance of a supposed superpower like Russia, has been quite frankly abnormal all things considered. I have overall been shocked by their performance and military strategists. Of course the war is not over yet but it does not look good.

Anyway there is no doubt about the quality of TB2 and Turkish drones that have been used in combat. I think that the decrease of terrorist incidents in Turkey (PKK) speaks for itself as well as operations in Syria and North Iraq.
 

dBSPL

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It is an erroneous approach to talk only about the plane itself here. From ground control systems to communication protocols and autonomy, from specially optimized ammunition types, to the energy efficient tactical level ELINT/ED-EA systems carried on the aircraft, from the design of redundant systems against electronic attack, to some structural innovations, and other so many tecnical areas and so systems engineering as a whole, must be dealt with in detail.

And it's no easy task to create an appropriate doctrinal approach developed for this aircraft as a whole, at the lowest possible cost. It's a simple tactical level UAV when you look at the system but the design and doctrine behind it is valuable.

Today's war conditions are changing and asymmetric factors are now more prominent. The main issue that makes the doctrinal understanding of many of the world's armies clumsy is that they are still planned under cold war conditions and against conventional threats in the traditional sense.

I wrote more detailed stuff on this topic in another corner of the forum. The rise of UAVs is all about this shift. Operationally proven studies under the leadership of the USA were that such unmanned systems allow for more cost/mission effective execution of operations (with some special advantages such as instant intelligence capabilities) in some specific mission profiles. So for systems or milita groups with a total value of maybe a few tens thousand of dollars, lifting $100 million jets created a huge asymmetry and GA some other pioners provided solid solution to this. Naturally, NATO standards in this area were created by the US.

What is happening now is about this change undergoing a change within itself. So if a $5 million UAV can do the job of a $50 million UAV in some specific mission group, then why incur huge initial acquisition costs, as if it were a manned jet operation? At this point, we return to the very beginning of the subject. Producer countries that can create an appropriate doctrinal approach and create a system design accordingly are starting to make a difference.

The US has created something and many countries have tried to follow it. No one can object to this issue. But some countries have started to take this phenomenon and scale it up to their unique needs and add their own innovation. Our dear friends, who believe in absolute US superiority in this field, also ignore this side of the coin.

Do you have any links to such sites or Twitter users?
You can get some results by google it as 'TB-2 Kill list'. This is the first in the Google index:
 
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Hakikat ve Hikmet

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Reality is that even if they lost 100 TB-2, it has so many kills attributed to it, it would not matter. Before the western nations really started pouring large scale weapons into Ukraine, it was the TB-2 which literally held the Ukrainian lines FOR MONTHS. It was so wildly successful that the UKRAINIAN MILITARY wrote songs about it. It was credited by western media and military analysts as a major factor in Azeri Aerial Supremacy during the War of Nagorno-Karabakh. It has been widely hailed by western sources as one of the key pieces of Ukrainian resistance (and most of these sources are anti-Turk). So anyone claiming it is not a successful weapon is just saying it out of spite. In 4 wars (Lybia, Syria, Nagorno-Karabakh, and Ukraine) it has destroyed 1500+ targets. So if 50, 60, or 70 or even 100 were lost (at an extreme), it is still One of, if not THE MOST successful drone in heavy warfare combat (Predators and Reapers really haven't faced the threat levels in over Afghanistan or Iraq that these have over their war zones compared to the number of sorties they have flown. Even if you give the success towards the Reapers/Predators, TB-2 is top 3 and that is against the top flight US combat drones.

Wing Loong II and Rainbow series have not had the deployment levels to achieve that success BUT im. Sure they could potentially be very potent, but to poo poo the TB-2 is just asanine
The Ukranians are even naming their new born babies as Bayraktars......
 

Titanium100

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TB-2 is the highest strandard drones.. The only drone that has songs in multiple languages dedicated to it.. NATO is purchasing as well many members from NATO buying it
 

dBSPL

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"Two Turkish sources told Reuters that Turkish defense firm Baykar delivered 20 armed drones to the United Arab Emirates this month!"

The demand is claimed to be 120 BAYRAKTAR TB2s.


 

Muhammed45

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if UAE brought it,it's for different purpose, and price reason ,why the comparison with WLII
Lucky for Ukraine that Russia was too arrogant to mass import advanced CH variants and wing loong ii,the tide would totally shift if China started supplying Chinese drones;turkish drones are for budget audience who don't want to offend Usa too much by buying from china.
Wing loong has large RCS. It was downed by Yemenis already.

Russia wants something to penetrate into western layered airdefebse systems.

Wing loong is a capable drone but not cost effective. SU-24 would be much better than WL2
 

Ghostkiller

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Wing loong has large RCS. It was downed by Yemenis already.

Russia wants something to penetrate into western layered airdefebse systems.

Wing loong is a capable drone but not cost effective. SU-24 would be much better than WL2
TB2 was also downed in Libya like more than 10 drones (not sure about the exact number).
 

Oublious

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if UAE brought it,it's for different purpose, and price reason ,why the comparison with WLII
Lucky for Ukraine that Russia was too arrogant to mass import advanced CH variants and wing loong ii,the tide would totally shift if China started supplying Chinese drones;turkish drones are for budget audience who don't want to offend Usa too much by buying from china.


why did it not change the tide in Libya?

"Two Turkish sources told Reuters that Turkish defense firm Baykar delivered 20 armed drones to the United Arab Emirates this month!"

The demand is claimed to be 120 BAYRAKTAR TB2s.



do they have some dignity left? 😆
 

Ghostkiller

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why did it not change the tide in Libya?



do they have some dignity left? 😆
Neither TB2 in Libya.

Wing Loong II and Rainbow have mostly been used in the Yemeni arena with some success. Not sure if they have been used in other conflict zones, probably in Iraq and Libya too, now that I think about it.
In Egypt, we have like 120 of WLI and WLII
 

Muhammed45

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TB2 was also downed in Libya like more than 10 drones (not sure about the exact number).
More than 50 TB2s were downed in different countries, Ukrainian officials described it as a useless asset against a capable enemy.

I replied to the guy who suggested Wing Loong drone. It has large RCS and Yemenis successfuly downed it.

On the other hand, according to US Army artillery officer who served in Iraq,
"The American website 1945 published an analysis by Cam McMillan, an artillery officer of the US Army who served in Iraq, states: When the news of the sale of Iranian drones to Russia was published, many Western observers took it lightly and werr joking about it, The news spread and Iranian drones were considered a joke. But Iranian drones are no joke and we cannot underestimate the capabilities of these drones and the threat they pose.

As an artillery officer, one of my responsibilities was to deal with drones, at the beginning of my service in Iraq, I underestimated the idea that Iranian drones were a serious threat to me and my soldiers, but it didn't take long to realize that these drones were not to be ignored and a serious threat to are our forces. Iranian drones have regularly attacked American and coalition forces in the Middle East and have repeatedly breached formidable American defense lines and destroyed targets on US bases.

Beyond the American forces, Iranian drones have also posed a serious threat to some Persian Gulf countries and Israel. As for the war in Ukraine, these drones have successfully attacked the key forces of Ukraine before, and they are probably an even bigger threat than the American forces and partners in the Middle East have faced in today's war in Ukraine."
 

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