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U.S. Troops to Head to Pakistan

fatman17

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U.S. Troops to Head to Pakistan

Beginning early next year, U.S. Special Forces are expected to vastly expand their presence in Pakistan, as part of an effort to train and support indigenous counter-insurgency forces and clandestine counterterrorism units, according to defense officials involved with the planning.

These Pakistan-centric operations will mark a shift for the U.S. military and for U.S. Pakistan relations. In the aftermath of Sept. 11, the U.S. used Pakistani bases to stage movements into Afghanistan. Yet once the U.S. deposed the Taliban government and established its main operating base at Bagram, north of Kabul, U.S. forces left Pakistan almost entirely. Since then, Pakistan has restricted U.S. involvement in cross-border military operations as well as paramilitary operations on its soil.

But the Pentagon has been frustrated by the inability of Pakistani national forces to control the borders or the frontier area. And Pakistan's political instability has heightened U.S. concern about Islamic extremists there.

According to Pentagon sources, reaching a different agreement with Pakistan became a priority for the new head of the U.S. Special Operations Command, Adm. Eric T. Olson. Olson visited Pakistan in August, November and again this month, meeting with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, Pakistani Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Chairman Gen. Tariq Majid and Lt. Gen. Muhammad Masood Aslam, commander of the military and paramilitary troops in northwest Pakistan. Olson also visited the headquarters of the Frontier Corps, a separate paramilitary force recruited from Pakistan's border tribes.

Now, a new agreement, reported when it was still being negotiated last month, has been finalized. And the first U.S. personnel could be on the ground in Pakistan by early in the new year, according to Pentagon sources.

U.S. Central Command Commander Adm. William Fallon alluded to the agreement and spoke approvingly of Pakistan's recent counterterrorism efforts in an interview with Voice of America last week.

"What we've seen in the last several months is more of a willingness to use their regular army units," along the Afghan border, Fallon said. "And this is where, I think, we can help a lot from the U.S. in providing the kind of training and assistance and mentoring based on our experience with insurgencies recently and with the terrorist problem in Iraq and Afghanistan, I think we share a lot with them, and we'll look forward to doing that."

If Pakistan actually follows through, perhaps 2008 will be a better year.

By William M. Arkin | December 26, 2007; 6:00 AM ET Pakistan , Special
 

mujahideen

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Jan 10, 2007
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Are they coming to train the Army or Paramilitary Forces?
I personally dont think the Army need U.S. assistance in training, but Paramilitary Forces are a different story. I know for a fact that the Pakistani Army is far better trained then the U.S. Army, now dont get this mixed up with the weapons. The U.S. has better weapons but our Army is better trained. As far as the Paramilitary forces are concerned, I think that they can use training especially when we dont have to pay a dime for it.
 

Proud to be Pakistani

SENIOR MEMBER
Nov 26, 2007
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Are they coming to train the Army or Paramilitary Forces?
I personally dont think the Army need U.S. assistance in training, but Paramilitary Forces are a different story. I know for a fact that the Pakistani Army is far better trained then the U.S. Army, now dont get this mixed up with the weapons. The U.S. has better weapons but our Army is better trained. As far as the Paramilitary forces are concerned, I think that they can use training especially when we dont have to pay a dime for it.

I think it is not the training it self which is the issue but the use of US anti-terrorist weapons. PA and paramilitary needs training on the use of these equipment. Furthermore, there is no harm to get support in all possible areas from US.
 

mujahideen

SENIOR MEMBER
Jan 10, 2007
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I think it is not the training it self which is the issue but the use of US anti-terrorist weapons. PA and paramilitary needs training on the use of these equipment. Furthermore, there is no harm to get support in all possible areas from US.

As long as it is for free them what the hell. I dont think our forces would mind a extra work out.
 

S-2

PROFESSIONAL
Dec 25, 2007
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"I know for a fact that the Pakistani Army is far better trained then the U.S. Army..."

Then our special forces personnel shall look forward to the excellent training and skills displayed by your regular forces. Our guys don't know a whole lot and they're pretty humble around the pros.

Thanks for helping us out.
 

mujahideen

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Jan 10, 2007
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"I know for a fact that the Pakistani Army is far better trained then the U.S. Army..."

Then our special forces personnel shall look forward to the excellent training and skills displayed by your regular forces. Our guys don't know a whole lot and they're pretty humble around the pros.

Thanks for helping us out.

Well U.S. Forces have more knowledge of modern weapons and we have better trained forces. Now by no means am I saying the U.S. Forces are trained bad or that Pakistani Forces are bad when it comes to weapons. But in one the U.S. can be of assistance to us and in the other we can be of assistance to the U.S. Now believe me when I say this the Pakistan Army is probably one of the best trained army in the world, with no disrespect to any other armies. I have for myself seen the training in the U.S and Pakistani Army and I think that the training in the Pakistan Army is far superior.
 

Vinod2070

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"I know for a fact that the Pakistani Army is far better trained then the U.S. Army..."

No disrespect meant, but what is an objective way to measure which army is better trained?

I guess some possible measures could be: the time spent in training, the funds spent in training, the effectiveness and duration of continuing training regime, battle experience, peace loaction deployment Vs. battlefield deployment, the general discipline of the forces etc. Though I am no military expert and just speaking in general terms.

So is this deduction based on some objective measures or based on personal opinion based on your observation of the training regime of the two countries? I am just curious as I would also like to see that if an objective measure exists where do our forces stand in the pecking order.
 

S-2

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Dec 25, 2007
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I've an interest, as do most of our troops these days in COIN operations.

"...in the other ["better training"] we can be of assistance to the U.S."

Typically, these are not very kinetic operations. Perhaps you could share with me some of your regular army's recent experience with COIN operations? What combat operations best exemplify Pakistani army TTPs and COIN doctrine that might be relevant to the U.S. Army? Perhaps you could link me to your COIN operational and training doctrine?

On a different note, having witnessed U.S. Army and Pakistani Army training, how might we benefit there from your skills? Perhaps you could amplify a bit on the context of those training observations? It helps to know who and what you saw upon which you've based your conclusions.

As an aside, you sound like a military man. However, I checked your personal profile and noted no comments to that regard. No doubt you served, though. The experience shines through. In what capacity did you serve and for which army/air force/navy?

Thanks.:)
 

mujahideen

SENIOR MEMBER
Jan 10, 2007
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I've an interest, as do most of our troops these days in COIN operations.

"...in the other ["better training"] we can be of assistance to the U.S."

Typically, these are not very kinetic operations. Perhaps you could share with me some of your regular army's recent experience with COIN operations? What combat operations best exemplify Pakistani army TTPs and COIN doctrine that might be relevant to the U.S. Army? Perhaps you could link me to your COIN operational and training doctrine?

On a different note, having witnessed U.S. Army and Pakistani Army training, how might we benefit there from your skills? Perhaps you could amplify a bit on the context of those training observations? It helps to know who and what you saw upon which you've based your conclusions.

As an aside, you sound like a military man. However, I checked your personal profile and noted no comments to that regard. No doubt you served, though. The experience shines through. In what capacity did you serve and for which army/air force/navy?

Thanks.:)

Well I am not an Army man, but come from a Military family so I know what I am talking about. I have been to some of the facilities used by newly recruited Pakistani Army personnel. Now I have lived in the U.S all my life and I know what their training is like. A lot of my friends are in the U.S Army. Now like I said before I mean no disrespect to any force, but believe me Pakistan Army personnel have a tougher training then the U.S Army personnel. In Pakistan training mostly focuses on how a soldier can use his head to get out of a jam and how he can be made to endure in humane conditions, that is why these guys bodies are not as built as U.S. Forces, they are made to be flexible and athletic.
 

S-2

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Dec 25, 2007
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"I have for myself seen the training in the U.S and Pakistani Army and I think that the training in the Pakistan Army is far superior."

I'm sorry. This comment led me to believe that your's was a professional assessment. I see that I was wrong.

My apologies.
 

S-2

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Dec 25, 2007
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"In Pakistan training mostly focuses on how a soldier can use his head to get out of a jam and how he can be made to endure in humane conditions, that is why these guys bodies are not as built as U.S. Forces, they are made to be flexible and athletic."

Mujahideen,

You're talking out of your fourth point of contact. You haven't got a clue. Not remotely. Your army may be outstanding. In fact, quite likely. But I won't be learning much about it's abilities from you.

That's the only fact presented so far.
 

IceCold

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So are they just coming for the training purpose or does it have to do something with our nuclear weapons? Just a thought
 

S-2

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Dec 25, 2007
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"So are they just coming for the training purpose or does it have to do something with our nuclear weapons?"

Nukes, I'm sure. My guess is they're the lead elements of a stealth strike on your facilities.
 

mujahideen

SENIOR MEMBER
Jan 10, 2007
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Nukes, I'm sure. My guess is they're the lead elements of a stealth strike on your facilities.


If by this you are implying that the U.S. could just walk into Pakistan and take our weapons away you are wrong. We have literally eaten grass for the defence of Pakistan, to develop nuclear capability. We will not and I repeat will not let anyone take them away from us. If anyone want to get to our weapons then in they will first have to go through the entire population of Pakistan. We take great pride in our weapons.
 

Tiki Tam Tam

<b>MILITARY PROFESSIONALS</b>
May 15, 2006
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Taking pride over one's nuke is laudable.

However, it appears that the terrorists are taking over Pakistan.

If a political leader can be killed even when the govt claims all protection has been given, then these terrorists can also target the nukes and seize them.

Sadly these terrorists are now attacking Pakistan.

What if they use it against Pakistan itself?

These terrorists have no territorial loyalties because if they did, then they would not attack an Islamic country with its horrifying acts as they are showcasing in Pakistan.

Are you saying that the Pakistan govt is not Islamic or is it anti Islam that the terrorist should target Pakistan?

Eating grass is one thing and being forced to be six feet under the grass is another!
 

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