• Monday, July 6, 2020

U.S blacklists 5 Chinese supercomputer firms

Discussion in 'Technology & Science' started by ps3linux, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. ps3linux

    ps3linux FULL MEMBER

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    https://www.pcworld.com/article/340...firms-including-amd-joint-venture-thatic.html

    By Mark Hachman
    Senior Editor, PCWorld
    JUN 21, 2019 11:31 AM PT
    The Trump Administration has taken further action against China, placing several of the country’s top supercomputing firms on the so-called “entity list” of companies with whom U.S. companies are forbidden to do business. Currently, that list’s most famous entrant is Huawei.

    The New York Times noticedthat five companies have been added to the entity list, including some with entrants among the world’s fastest supercomputers, known as the Top500 list. The new entrants on the entity list also include THATIC, a joint venture AMD had set up with the Chinese government in 2016 to license an x86 chip for use in China.

    The U.S. Department of Commerce is responsible for the entity list, which includes companies where the agency says there is “reasonable cause to believe...have been involved, are involved, or pose a significant risk of being involved in activities that are contrary to the national security or foreign policy of the United States.”

    U.S. companies are forbidden from doing business with and supplying components to companies placed on the entity list, although exceptions can be granted. Though China has developed its own microprocessors, that means U.S. companies would be forbidden to ship PCs and other components to members on the entity list. Many supercomputers, for example, use Nvidia GPUs.

    The five companies added to the list probably won’t be familiar even to fans of the technology industry: Chengdu Haiguang Integrated Circuit, Chengdu Haiguang Microelectronics Technology, Higon, Sugon, and the Wuxi Jiangnan Institute of Computing Technology. All of these are also identified by several aliases; Sugon, for example, is also known as Dawning.


    Over the years, however, many of these companies have been involved in the Top500 list of supercomputers. As companies construct new supercomputers and new components are introduced, a supercomputer’s place on the list typically falls over time. But Sugon, for example, manufactured the Advanced Computing System (PreE), the 43rd most powerful supercomputer in the world as of June 2019.

    Sugon, the Wuxi Jiangnan Institute of Computing Technology, and the National University of Defense Technology are all involved on developing exascale-class supercomputers, which the U.S. government believes could be or are being used for military purposes.

    Quietly, Chinese firms have begun developing their own world-class processors, though you won’t see them in PCs or even servers shipped outside the United States. The Wuxi Jiangnan Institute, for example, is believed to have developed the Sunway chips, which power the Sunway TaihuLight, the third most powerful supercomputer in the world. The TaihuLight was a system developed by China’s National Research Center of Parallel Computer Engineering & Technology (NRCPC) and installed at the National Supercomputing Center in Wuxi. It holds more than 10 million Sunway SW26010 cores, generating more than 93 petaflops of computing power.

    Sugon’s PreE uses over 160,000 cores of the Hygon Dhyana, the chip that originated from the THATIC partnership with AMD. (ServetheHome spotted one in the wild at Computex, which apparently is a clone of AMD’s Epyc chip.) Lisa Su, AMD’s chief executive, downplayed the THATIC relationship at Computex, saying that the license covered a “single generation of technology devices”.


    The additions to the entity list are just the latest Trump Administration actions against China, as the U.S. also seeks to impose tariffs on the import of Chinese goods. Those tariffs, according to the Consumer Technology Association, will add over $100 to the price of a typical notebook PC.

    @zulu , @MUSTAKSHAF , @war&peace

    Good time for a j.v with Chinese or at least cooperation
     
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  2. zulu

    zulu FULL MEMBER

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    But what our private sector can offer in this regard any possibility of such thing to materialize ???
     
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  3. war&peace

    war&peace ELITE MEMBER

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    China has already developed her own microchips. However those are not that efficient but putting them in large numbers, China has been able to produce some the world's fastest supercomputers like Taihulight which was no. 1 for a long time but recently at number 3 in the world.

    China should use its supercomputers to develop more efficient microprocessor architectures and fabrication processes to make them more efficient and compete with corresponding chips from intel and other US oems.
     
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  4. Sine Nomine

    Sine Nomine ELITE MEMBER

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    Better stay neutral.In terms of man power Pakistan is in right shape but we don't have security+brain to use it.
     
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  5. war&peace

    war&peace ELITE MEMBER

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    What do you mean? why always negative & pathetic?
     
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  6. Sine Nomine

    Sine Nomine ELITE MEMBER

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    Make it clear.
     
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  7. Samlee

    Samlee SENIOR MEMBER

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    The Trade War Continues
     
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  8. war&peace

    war&peace ELITE MEMBER

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    This part below? What security has to do with a JV in microchip development?
     
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  9. Sine Nomine

    Sine Nomine ELITE MEMBER

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    European firms are not willing to dispatch their specialists to Pakistan due to terrorism in past years.Hence no investment.
    &
    About brain part,people those who have money are not capable of thinking more then real estate,looms and sugar mills.
     
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  10. war&peace

    war&peace ELITE MEMBER

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    You got it wrong, I think @ps3linux is talking about JV between Pak and China for processor tech. And since you don't know..Al-khwarzimi Society of UET Lahore tried to develop a microprocessor many years ago.
     
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  11. Sine Nomine

    Sine Nomine ELITE MEMBER

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    Try developing is one thing,have it working and having will to use it is 180° opposite.
    Do you think having JV with a US sanctioned firm is good idea?
     
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  12. war&peace

    war&peace ELITE MEMBER

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    why not? it is a very good idea.
     
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  13. Sine Nomine

    Sine Nomine ELITE MEMBER

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    They would sanction our firm also and anyone who trades with it.
     
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  14. ps3linux

    ps3linux FULL MEMBER

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    Last Time I read about their processor development they were at Pentium level, although I know they have made leaps and bounds by purchasing old dies from microchip producers, reverse engineering etc.

    TBH Chinese development in this area is more due to espionage rather than home grown R&D.
     
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  15. war&peace

    war&peace ELITE MEMBER

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    They won't and even if they do so what... those organisation have nothing to do with US or west it would be lesser effective than the ban on export of powdered milk to Pakistan

    With those chips, China was able make the world's fastest supercomputers in years 2017, 2018 and still it is 3rd fastest in the world. But the individual processors are not that powerful computationally so China has installed 10,649,600 while its close competitor Sierra ranked no 2 on the list, uses 1,572,480 cores. But it should be noted that Sierra relies on Volta GV100 cards from Nvidia which greatly accelerates certain parallel applications. Taihulight is using 6 times more cores but we cannot that say individual core or processor is 6 times less powerful because the more cores means more overhead if you MPI for parallelisation (I'm skipping the details here).

    However China should use her supercomputers to optimise the processor micro-architecture The Core architecture of Intel differs in branch prediction than the Pentium series. Though there are new instruction set and other technologies as well but the main difference is in branch prediction and the IPC. Pentium has long pipelines.