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Two IDF commando officers killed in friendly fire incident at West Bank base

Norwegian

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Seems like God is with us.
Am Yisrael Chai!
The greatest mistake the Ottoman's made was saving the Jews on ships
No, the worst mistake was entering world world 1 on German side, losing the war and thus entire empire to British and French interests. British Palestine mandate would not exist if Ottoman Empire didn't enter world war 1 on German side
 

Genghis khan1

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It isn't a matter of religion, it's a matter of nationality.

Egoz unit is an extremely capable one, with extremely tough training, equipped with some of the most advanced weapon systems, with a lot of combat experience in some of the toughest terrains. There's no Muslim country with special forces that could rival it or its training.
That’s your perspective, but It’s all Ok. As a kid, when I was in Pakistani, I used to think same crazy stuff about capability of Army. I do agreed that It takes Ball of titanium and a huge heart to serve in any Special Unit (True for any country). Mind over muscle. Training itself is designed to weed out anyone not 100% committed. So everything is motivation (National/religious or whatever) to succeed.

Other than that, your military is conscription based. I think rag tag militant in Pakistan tribal area are more motivated and battle harden than your conscripted force.

I have seen well trained, grown men in Uniform struggling to hold back tears and fear when shit get real and land start shaking.
 

Beny Karachun

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I don’t come to this thread to read the jokes, but rather willing to become involved in rational arguments. If it wasn’t for the US resupply efforts you wouldn’t be putting up a counteroffensive in the first place.
1. The Israeli forces on Egyptian mainland by the 25th of October 1973:
- 2 Armoured Divisions (143rd, 162nd)
- 1 Armoured Brigade (252nd)
- 1 Mechanized Infantry Division (146th)
With the possibility of providing more forces through the Deversoir gap or the captured Fayid AB.
2. The Israeli forces to the east of Egypt’s third army:
- 2 Mechanized Infantry Brigades

3. Egypt’s Third Army:
- 1 Armoured Brigade (25th)
- 1 Mechanized Infantry Brigade (6th)
- 1 Infantry Division (19th)

In addition to Urban resistance in the city of Suez.

4. Egypt’s (and allied forces west of the Israeli gap):
1 Mechanized Infantry Division (3rd)
1 Armoured Division (4th)
2 Armoured Brigades (Presidential Guards, Algerian Brigade)

Advance towards Cairo and you’d have to leave at least 1 Brigade outside the Suez or even 2 to prevent Egypt’s third army 25th Armoured Brigade and/or 6th Infantry Division from crossing to into the mainland and give chase, as well as obviously deal with N°4.

Attempt to neutralize the Suez and the Egyptian Third Army first and you’d have to fight an even or a disadvantaged ground battle as your tanks gradually cross the canal with Egypt’s 25th Armoured Brigade and/or 6th Infantry Division in full numbers and in an advantageous position.

Should you succeed in destroying Egypt’s third army you will be expected to lose more than half of its men at least, you’d enjoy fighting N°4 in such a shape.

This is all without mentioning Egypt’s second army north of the Great Bitter Lake, or Egypt’s forces that successfully defended Ismailia. No wonder we Egyptians didn’t find that encirclement a threat. Even more the “Road To Cairo” famed by many.

No doubt, we have a topic to stick to here (after all).

Friendly fire peaks at wartime, but its expected to happen less frequently in relative peace and lack of tensions.
You might be right, but the same could be said about Egypt which would have lost without Soviet resupply, which was larger than what Israel recieved.
You can't accuse of Israel receiving supplies from the US when you got more than that from the USSR.

dvance towards Cairo and you’d have to leave at least 1 Brigade outside the Suez or even 2 to prevent Egypt’s third army 25th Armoured Brigade
What 25th Egyptian armored brigade?

Pretty much the entire brigade was knocked out in an ambush,
Out of 94 T-62s and and 40 APCs, only 22 tanks and 7 APCs with 280 men inside managed to escape. Some of the intact T-62s captured were converted into Tiran-6 tanks, as shown here:
1642210551743.png

Read for yourself in Arabic

Attempt to neutralize the Suez and the Egyptian Third Army first and you’d have to fight an even or a disadvantaged ground battle as your tanks gradually cross the canal with Egypt’s 25th Armoured Brigade and/or 6th Infantry Division in full numbers and in an advantageous position.
The Egyptian Third Army was encircled, cut off supplies, water running out in the Sinai desert. You and I both know the heat, it means death within days.
As I said, the Egyptian 25th brigade was destroyed and removed from the war as a meaningful fighting force, it was nothing close to full numbers.

8,000 men, almost all from the Egyptian 3rd army, surrendered themselves to Israeli forces. That's a whole division captured. Add that to 15,000 Egyptian dead and tens of thousands of wounded.

I think you don't understand how disadvantageous the 3rd army was. It was encircled and without any SAM coverage, they were basically sitting ducks to Israeli airstrikes, which were gradually increasing since Syria was utterly defeated in the Golan. Destroying it wouldn't have costed us half our soldiers, not even close to that.

You didn't find that encirclement a threat? Maybe that's what they teach you now.
1642211350520.png



3rd army had no air cover, no offensive capacity, no logistics.

Can you tell me the casualties of both sides? the terms of Kilo 101 talks? the terms of 1977 treaty? why Israel withdraw from the whole Sinai in 1982 not in 1973? why Sinai is completely demilitarized? why there’s international peace forces in Sinai and not in Israel too? Why Egypt shall take permission from Israel first before moving a single soldier, vehicle, equipment into the Sinai? Did you really conquer the Sinai? Did Anwar Saadat not ask Brezhnev to impose a cease fire as soon as the 3rd army was surrounded? Did Brezhnev not threaten to act against Israel unilaterally if the Egyptian 3rd army is destroyed? Did Brezhnev not put Soviet airborne brigades on route to the Sinai?

After you answer those questions, can you really say you won the war?

The truth is, you didn't win that war, and at the very least you Egyptians can stop saying you somehow humiliated Israel because that's far, far from the truth. If anything, this war has shown how capable we are.

Friendly fire isn't common, and Israel isn't really at peace, ever.

Your source is times of israel...do i need to say more?
Is it times of Israel?
 

Beny Karachun

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That’s your perspective, but It’s all Ok. As a kid, when I was in Pakistani, I used to think same crazy stuff about capability of Army. I do agreed that It takes Ball of titanium and a huge heart to serve in any Special Unit (True for any country). Mind over muscle. Training itself is designed to weed out anyone not 100% committed. So everything is motivation (National/religious or whatever) to succeed.

Other than that, your military is conscription based. I think rag tag militant in Pakistan tribal area are more motivated and battle harden than your conscripted force.

I have seen well trained, grown men in Uniform struggling to hold back tears and fear when shit get real and land start shaking.
No, you're very wrong. Our military is conscription based, but entering combat units is entirely your choice and it's not hard to leave them, let alone special forces which filter out most of the recuits.

There's a difference between special forces and crazy people. Rag tag militants would loudly enter a fight with their Toyota RAV4s without any fear (Only experienced ones), act carelessly and probably die.

Special forces are meant to infiltrate, ambush and get out before anyone ever located you. That's what you train for, to use advantages, not to be simple riflemen, this is a job for the regular brigades.
 

Genghis khan1

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No, you're very wrong. Our military is conscription based, but entering combat units is entirely your choice and it's not hard to leave them, let alone special forces which filter out most of the recuits.

There's a difference between special forces and crazy people. Rag tag militants would loudly enter a fight with their Toyota RAV4s without any fear (Only experienced ones), act carelessly and probably die.

Special forces are meant to infiltrate, ambush and get out before anyone ever located you. That's what you train for, to use advantages, not to be simple riflemen, this is a job for the regular brigades.
You are misleading people. Jobs are assigned based on Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) score and the requirement of military. You can request certain type of MOS (job), but your chances of getting the spot is based in your ASVAB score and opening (requirement) in that MOS.

Since infantry requires the largest pool of man power, like it or not, that’s where majority of recruits will end up.

As far as rag tag militant are concerned, I was comparing them to your regular military not special forces. I have seen these bastards fighting, and I am telling you, they will chew your average infantry and armored unit. Don’t think everybody fights like Arabs.

Case in point: During OIF, Iraqi militant were know for their unprofessional spray and pray tactic in fire fight.

Same US Army and marines units (with 3 to 4 combat deployments in Iraq) when started getting deployed to Afganistan in late 09 were surprise to notice how Taliban were using Talking gun tactic to conserve ammo and also using terrains to their advantage to encircle and attack bases. It was only the financial and military might of US that kept that war going. Otherwise Britishers and other European countries would not leave their base and in many cases pay money to local Taliban commanders not to attack their bases and supply routes. Every time Afghan Army (ANA) go on a patrol with NATO units , Taliban attack on ANA. ANA was aware of this fact and was so demoralized that it end up in desertion and ghost soldiers and ultimate complete meltdown of their military.
 

Trailer23

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@Beny Karachun
Good Lord - I thought Indians were full of themselves, but you take the cake.

When was the last time you clowns even went to battle against a worthy adversary?

What people with stones are all you can aim at with all your might & hi-tech?

Pray to your God that you never have to go up against Pakistan.

All the trash you spoke earlier about being better than any Islamic Nation might come and haunt you and collapse like a deck of cards.

Your puny lil' corner is a days work if you don't have the support of the US - and EVERYONE KNOWS THAT.

The day Papa distances itself will be the day your home turns into football field. Until that day (comes), enjoy your moment on [PDF]..., Benny Boy.
 

PradoTLC

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They're better trained than any Muslim soldier that has ever existed.
yup...they have been better trained in the art of killing more children, beaten more women, killed journalists, killed protester than any muslim soldier that every existed.

Jewish soldiers

1642227969124.png

1642228002535.png


1642228584613.png



Islamic soldiers of Pakistan..sending scum of the earth to hell since 1947

1642228113907.png





The machine
1642228329308.png


the man
1642228366558.png


The loser..

1642228412678.png
 

SecularNationalist

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Two IDF commando officers killed in friendly fire incident at West Bank base
Maj. Ofek Aharon, Maj. Itamar Elharar crept up on another soldier during patrol, thinking he was a suspect; he thought he was under attack and shot them

By JUDAH ARI GROSS and TOI STAFF 13 January 2022, 6:28 am Updated at 12:56 pm
Undated photographs of Maj. Itamar Elharar, left, and Maj. Ofek Aharon, who were killed in a friendly fire incident outside their base in the Jordan Valley on January 12, 2022. (Israel Defense Forces)
Undated photographs of Maj. Itamar Elharar, left, and Maj. Ofek Aharon, who were killed in a friendly fire incident outside their base in the Jordan Valley on January 12, 2022. (Israel Defense Forces)
Two officers from a commando unit were killed in a so-called friendly fire accident at a base in the Jordan Valley in the West Bank late Wednesday night, the Israel Defense Forces said.
According to the military, the officers — both company commanders in the elite Egoz unit — were performing a patrol at roughly 11 p.m. around their base, known as Nabi Mussa, just north of the Dead Sea after a training exercise. As they were walking, they spotted a person they thought was a suspicious figure, but was in fact another officer.
As the officers, Maj. Ofek Aharon, 28, and Maj. Itamar Elharar, 26, approached him, he apparently opened fire at them, seeing that they were armed and believing he was under attack. Aharon and Elharar were fatally wounded and were pronounced dead shortly thereafter.

“The officers were killed after a mistaken identification led to a friendly fire incident,” the IDF said in a statement.
The military initially said that Aharon and Elharar had attempted to arrest the third officer, calling for him to halt and firing into the air, but this was later found not to have been the case. The IDF currently believes that the third officer fired first, though this was still being investigated, according to IDF Central Command chief Yehuda Fuchs.
The fatal misunderstanding came a night after someone broke onto the Nabi Mussa base, named for a nearby pilgrimage site, and stole military equipment from it, including powerful night-vision goggles, the IDF said.
Military bases are regularly robbed, and in a bid to combat this, last November the IDF changed its open-fire policies to allow soldiers to use deadly force to stop thieves.
Fuchs denied any connection between this rule change and the Aharon and Elharar ‘ deaths, saying the other officer did not believe he was opening fire to stop a thief but to protect himself from armed attackers.
Describing the deaths as “painful and unfortunate,” IDF Spokesperson Ran Kochav told the Kan radio broadcaster on Thursday morning that the military would investigate the circumstances but had yet to name an officer to lead the probe.
He said IDF Chief of Staff Aviv Kohavi was heading to the Jordan Valley base on Thursday morning to meet with the unit’s commanders in order to begin the investigation.

Then-incoming IDF Spokesperson Ran Kochav speaks during a ceremony at the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit’s headquarters in northern Tel Aviv on June 6, 2021. (Israel Defense Forces)
In addition to consoling the families of the officers who were killed, Kochav said that the military would be compassionate toward the officer who mistakenly killed them.
“We will need to embrace the officer, to take care of him, to show that we are protecting him. He, of course, did this accidentally, resulting in the deaths of his friends,” Kochav said.
Defense Minister Benny Gantz expressed his condolences to the families of the fallen officers, promising a thorough investigation.
“The IDF is in the midst of a comprehensive investigation, and we will do everything to ensure that a tragedy like this does not repeat itself,” Gantz said in a statement.

IDF Chief of Staff Aviv Kohavi, left, and Defense Minister Benny Gantz attend a Defense and Foreign Affairs Committee meeting at the Knesset, on October 19, 2021. (Yonatan Sindel/Flash90)
Prime Minister Naftali Bennett also consoled the families, saying their loved ones had “devoted the best years of their lives to the security of Israel and the defense of the homeland.”
“The entire people of Israel mourns their passing,” he added.
The deadly misunderstanding occurred late Wednesday but the military censor barred publication of any details until the families of the officers had been notified. Initially, the army only acknowledged that “a serious incident” had taken place on the base and requested that the public refrain from posting or speculating about the incident.
The deaths came a week after two IAF pilots were killed in a helicopter crash in the sea off the coast of Haifa.

@500 @Beny Karachun @sammuel @Natan @dani191 @Dariush the Great @Trango Towers @Falcon29 @Falcon26 @Abu Dhabi
Two less excuses of human beings to worry about.
 

PradoTLC

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Pray to your God that you never have to go up against Pakistan.

man.. all we have to is gather 10M Pakistanis on the Golan height and start peeing... the Israelis will experince a new bibical flood...
Your false sense of superiority amuses me.

last we checked.. Pakistan sent US and its NATO boobs packing in A-stan... so what are you?
 

PradoTLC

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Good Lord - I thought Indians were full of themselves, but you take the cake.

ah ha... i knew it.. they are indian trained
You can't accuse of Israel receiving supplies from the US when you got more than that from the USSR.
y got qualitative weapon like AGM Maverk that were instrumental in destroying the SAM net work... plus Jewish USAF pilots flew to shore up IAF loses, plus sadat's idiotic decision to push deeper into Snai to help the syrians much to the disgust of his commander.... the Egyptians had effectively beaten you. .. you should say thank you America


that doesn't change the fact Israeli soldiers are better trained than soldiers of Muslim countries.

i doubt it.. you would struggle against any regular unit of Pakistan Army.. forget winning
 
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Beny Karachun

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You are misleading people. Jobs are assigned based on Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) score and the requirement of military. You can request certain type of MOS (job), but your chances of getting the spot is based in your ASVAB score and opening (requirement) in that MOS.

Since infantry requires the largest pool of man power, like it or not, that’s where majority of recruits will end up.

As far as rag tag militant are concerned, I was comparing them to your regular military not special forces. I have seen these bastards fighting, and I am telling you, they will chew your average infantry and armored unit. Don’t think everybody fights like Arabs.

Case in point: During OIF, Iraqi militant were know for their unprofessional spray and pray tactic in fire fight.

Same US Army and marines units (with 3 to 4 combat deployments in Iraq) when started getting deployed to Afganistan in late 09 were surprise to notice how Taliban were using Talking gun tactic to conserve ammo and also using terrains to their advantage to encircle and attack bases. It was only the financial and military might of US that kept that war going. Otherwise Britishers and other European countries would not leave their base and in many cases pay money to local Taliban commanders not to attack their bases and supply routes. Every time Afghan Army (ANA) go on a patrol with NATO units , Taliban attack on ANA. ANA was aware of this fact and was so demoralized that it end up in desertion and ghost soldiers and ultimate complete meltdown of their military.
What are you talking about? I'm talking about the IDF, I have no idea what ASVAB or MOS is but it has nothing to do with it.

There's 3 tests in the Israeli army, and 5 variables that determine where you want to go. Dapar test (Stands for first psychometric evaluation, tests your logical/mathematical/English/perceptional skills and ranks them from 10 ,20, 30..., 90 following a bell curve relative to the population),
Kaba test (Stands for quality group, combination of Dapar, social skill tests, motivation level and a Hebrew test ,41-56) and Profile (Physical condition Profile 21 - 97, 21 unfit for duty, in between unfit for combat, 97 fit for every role) and the 5 variables are those 3 tests, the role you want, and the role the army wants.

No one is forced to go to a combat unit. In fact it is very easy to not serve at all. At 17, at the day they test your skills, they interview you and ask what you want to do in the army (Intelligence/combat/preferred unit etc). Based on your skills and preferences you will get further filtration tests. The thing is many people want to serve in combat units.

Forcing unwilling people to go to combat units is a disaster asking to be made.

The only reason the Taliban wasn't destroyed is because that decision wasn't made. Anger the US enough and you would have MOABs dropping everywhere in Afghanistan, regardless of civilians.
ANA is probably the most pathetic excuse for an army I've ever seen and shows how weapons never compensate for lack of motivation and skill.

It's hard to fight guerrilla forces that blend in with local civilians. No one can do it successfully without being called a war criminal.
 

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