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Featured Twin IED blasts in SWTD, six including 1 officer, 2JCOs, 2NCOs Martyred

Areesh

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yaar Kia thank him, apne log hi mar rahen hai ... Army ki top Leadership ko souchna chaiye , Ullu ke Pathe apne AC offices mai bhete hai , aur bechare Jawan aage toyota mai ja ker mar rahe hai , khud tu helicopter se ate hai , helicopter se jaate hai , its time to launch a massive Operation in Wazirstan , and if PTM comes in way eradicate them from existence , but i know it wont happen cause they Sons of soil , if it was MQM or Muhajir there would be carpet bombing in Wazirstan by now ..
There is always a way. There is surely need to change tactics which isn't happening

But that would happen when army leadership would take life of its soldiers and officers seriously

Both ptm and ttp are operatig freely and nothing is being done to change that
 

Vapour

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@PanzerKiel What do you suggest should be done, or are these the consequences you have to live with of a long-term strategy that will eventually see peace in the region?
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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Doing nothing is also not an option , ask those who lost their young kids in such attacks, leadership travel to Wazirstan every EID but in Helicopters, they don't know jack shit about the situation on ground, and if they do and yet neglecting it , than hang those Generals for Treason .

No offense , but i will use hard language here , but truth is that the Pashton of Tribal belt don't want to live like Humans, they prefer chaos , and lawlessness so they can smuggle things, sell hashsish etc how hard is it for a common Wazirstani to understand that they are fighting the state and their own army ? they are killing them and yet they expect the rest of Pakistan to respect them ? These Tribal Pashton comes to cities and make No Go areas while they dont let anyone else enter their areas , what if we banned anyone from former FATA into Karachi ? All hell will break lose , truth is that these people don't want good life , or standard services , their leaders and most of people see their tribal association above the Pakistaniate , and hence you find so many traitors among them who will plant an IED for what ? 5000 rupee ..

for years they are fighting and yet they don't know what they are fighting for, Islam ? Pashtoonistan ? Afghanistan ? injustice ? yeah Injustice happen but it happens in all over Pakistan , there are millions of pending cases in City courts , but we don't see city people planting IED or attacking Army check posts, and yet Army claims they are " Bhatkay hue log " ? oh bhai they are outright Terrorists , and traitors and they needs to be killed on sight .

Those IDP's are also to blame, yes these people to be blame for whatever they are going through, they harbor such terrorists in the name of Tribal code, and when they start killing their elders they run to Army for help, now after Army clean the Areas they start harboring the Terrorists again, only difference is that now TTP becomes more moderate and nationalistic as PTM and they are now targeting Army instead of Tribal elders , give them time and bring back Army in a couple of years these Tribal elders will be running to Army to clean it all up . they are living in a mess they themselves create , I am starting to believe that we should have kept the Bengali's and give up the Pashtoon at least thousands of Pakistani's would still be alive .
Are you saying that no development work is occurring or that the pace of development needs to be increased?

The same question with respect to expanding the coverage of civilian institutions into ex-FATA by the KP provincial government - is your concern that the pace is too slow?

What else would you like to see done?
Who voted for Bajwas extension? Didnt it include all major political parties?
Bajwa's extension has nothing to do with this. Entertaining this line of discussion will only distract from conversations on the actual issues that need to be focused on.
 

Areesh

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Who voted for Bajwas extension? Didnt it include all major political parties?
It was Imran decision from the start. He is the one responsible for it
Bajwa's extension has nothing to do with this. Entertaining this line of discussion will only distract from conversations on the actual issues that need to be focused on.
Yes Bajwa and his extension has everything to do with it. He along with Imran khan is the one responsible for no change in tactics or policy as far as Waziristan

An army commander is responsible for both success and failure of his troops. If you are continously losing troops for little to no loss to enemy then you are definitely doing something wrong that needs to be changed
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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I've seen some videos of pak soldiers being ambushed and most of the situations are almost impossible to get out of even for the most advanced militaries out there. Moreover, they've always been travelling in pickup trucks making them sitting ducks. Unless they have a pretty solid MRAP with CEN B7 Level (Armor-piercing Rifle Protection) and STANAG Level-III or higher...it's hard to get outta such situations without taking casualties
Most of the criticism of the Army for casualties in ex-FATA (that you see on this forum) stems from the perceived lack of interest in acquiring & deploying larger numbers of MRAP's and drones for force protection and surveillance.

Some of our Pakistani military professionals have touched on this in passing - there is a major difference in the mindset of Western Armies vs the Pakistani Army, not necessarily just in COIN/COT, but warfare in general.

Finances and equipment are expensive and hard to get in our neck of the woods whereas we have no shortage of manpower. The Army offsets that with an extremely robust benefits and support system for the families of Army martyrs and those wounded in service, financed by the much maligned Military Inc.
Yes Bajwa and his extension has everything to do with it. He along with Imran khan is the one responsible for no change in tactics or policy as far as Waziristan

An army commander is responsible for both success and failure of his troops. If you are continously losing troops for little to no loss to enemy then you are definitely doing something wrong that needs to be changed
What policies and tactics would you like to see changed and why do you think a different COAS would have changed them?
 

Zapper

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Most of the criticism of the Army for casualties in ex-FATA (that you see on this forum) stems from the perceived lack of interest in acquiring & deploying larger numbers of MRAP's and drones for force protection and surveillance.

Some of our Pakistani military professionals have touched on this in passing - there is a major difference in the mindset of Western Armies vs the Pakistani Army, not necessarily just in COIN/COT, but warfare in general.

Finances and equipment are expensive and hard to get in our neck of the woods whereas we have no shortage of manpower. The Army offsets that with an extremely robust benefits and support system for the families of Army martyrs and those wounded in service, financed by the much maligned Military Inc.

What policies and tactics would you like to see changed and why do you think a different COAS would have changed them?
That's something inline with IA...our top brass too considers manpower to be dispensable easily
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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That's something inline with IA...our top brass too considers manpower to be dispensable easily
On the Pakistani side, you might never see large scale adoption of Western style COIN equipment & tactics because COIN is not something the Army plans to do on a permanent basis at the scale it has been doing it and it can easily absorb isolated attacks here and there.

So why invest billions out of a limited military budget in developing COIN/COT capacity for a conflict that civilian law enforcement and paramilitary organizations (Frontier Corps) are expected to step up and lead going forward?
 

Norwegian

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It was Imran decision from the start. He is the one responsible for it
If so then other political opposition parties, namely PMLN+PPP should have opposed IK's wrong decision. But they endorsed it, meaning there was nation wide consensus on the PM's choice.
 

Cuirassier

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same shit different day. our men dying to third-rate scumbags who've made the accursed land of Waziristan their den. there will be an IBO, some local Talib commander will be eliminated, rinse and repeat. rudderless COIN doctrine. these attacks will also give legitimacy to the PTM anarchists who claim regrouping of militants, but have zero sympathy for troops so I don't give a **** about them. the top brass meanwhile, has better stuff to do, such as pleading third-rate Talibs across the border to make deals, or getting pissed over people taking the piss at them for legitimate reasons.

these past two years have been, sorry to say, abominable with respect to military operations west of the Indus. too bad we're stuck with a COAS with nil CT/CI experience, for the next couple of years. an unacceptable attrition rate has been normalised.

Waziristan has drained more blood than 1965. no wonder the Brits got embroiled in this part of the frontier. an anthropological analysis should be done. dimwit SJWs should know the truth.

I may not be aware of the operational intricacies, but can't Shakirullah Khattak employ a brigade in a collective sweep operation in the Shawal/SW-NW border region? 205 Bde is there. 24 Mech Bde is there. instead of IBOs which usually end up in greater friendly losses, why not lure them out of their dens? engage them where you can employ your advantage to a maximum?

tonight is an another depressing night for me. a nightmarish ordeal of the loved ones of those who fell in the line of duty. god bless.

p.s. this is the 5th officer fatal casualty in Waziristan this year - losses have increased since last year, reversing the trend of decreased violence. very worrying and detrimental to the already dwindling image of the military. I'm sure there is frustration in the rank and file too. apologies to those who would find this harsh.
 

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