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Turkish Presidency: We currently do not have a positive position on the issue of Sweden and Finland (joining NATO)

Wergeland

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My point exactly. Turkey should pay attention to its region and not disrupt a major NATO victory in the north. But somehow turkish interests again disrupts NATO interests. NATO and Russia is facing a potential conflict, and Turkey is navel-gazing.

I think Turkey in no way wants to make trouble for Scandinavia just for the sake of doing it. It simply has no reason to.

The problem lies with the attitude of certain NATO allies, who dont seem to respect Turkeys genuine concerns.

Kurdish insurgency is resposible many terrorist attacks on Turkish soil. Many kurds in Scandinavia supports these terrorist organizations, with our government simply failing to acknowledge Turkish side. This is not how Allies should behave.

Would it forexample be OK for Turkey to host organizations and members with a history of harming, and continues to harm Norway, Denmark and Sweden? We would certainly react strongly. Why would we in such a scenario want to welcome Turkey to NATO without reservations?

I hope you can also see the situation from Turkeys perspective.

The situation has been even more difficult with US and NATO wish to create a Kurdish state in Levant, which automatically would make Eastern Turkey more susceptible to attacks. It is very harmful for Turkish territorial integrity.

Imagine a section of the Sami people wanting independence and somehow Russia managed to support them and make a Sami independent nation right in the North, which automatically would destabilize all sami areas in Norway, Finland and Sweden.

Some food for thought.
 

Oublious

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My point exactly. Turkey should pay attention to its region and not disrupt a major NATO victory in the north. But somehow turkish interests again disrupts NATO interests. NATO and Russia is facing a potential conflict, and Turkey is navel-gazing.


then get the fak out of the middle east and supporting ypg or pkk.
 

MeFishToo

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I think Turkey in no way wants to make trouble for Scandinavia just for the sake of doing it. It simply has no reason to.

The problem lies with the attitude of certain NATO allies, who dont seem to respect Turkeys genuine concerns.

Kurdish insurgency is resposible many terrorist attacks on Turkish soil. Many kurds in Scandinavia supports these terrorist organizations, with our government simply failing to acknowledge Turkish side. This is not how Allies should behave.

Would it forexample be OK for Turkey to host organizations and members with a history of harming, and continues to harm Norway, Denmark and Sweden? We would certainly react strongly. Why would we in such a scenario want to welcome Turkey to NATO without reservations?

I hope you can also see the situation from Turkeys perspective.

The situation has been even more difficult with US and NATO wish to create a Kurdish state in Levant, which automatically would make Eastern Turkey more susceptible to attacks. It is very harmful for Turkish territorial integrity.

Imagine a section of the Sami people wanting independence and somehow Russia managed to support them and make a Sami independent nation right in the North, which automatically would destabilize all sami areas in Norway, Finland and Sweden.

Some food for thought.
NATO and Turkey has a long history of Turkey pursuing a path aligned with its own interests. Turkey is slowly becomming a liability and not an asset to NATO. Eventually NATO will have to let Turkey go (or simply disolve NATO and reunite without them) if they continue pursuing realpolitics not feeling constrained by its NATO responsebilities.

When Turkey accept Sweden and Finland into NATO, because they’ve been given something (not from Sweden or Finland), maybe you will understand or somehow accept that I might have a point.
 

dBSPL

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On the last events of Sweden- Turkey and disagreement on Nato membership.
Actually there should be strongly expressed that NATO gives members the right to veto a candidate. But moreover we have to ask; does Turkey have a moral ground to activate veto right? Let's dig out

Turkey became member in 1952. There was a precondition for Turkey to pass through the line. Participating in Korean War. And Democratic Party of Turkey had ratified the bill to let Turkish army to join war on the side of Atlantic-Western block

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Turkish Brigade with approximately containing 25000 soldiers fought bravely shoulder to shoulder with American troops to defend Korea. Turkish casualties were: over 700 lost and more than 2000 wounded. Image

Every year the Korean Ministry of Foreign Affairs still exerts "respect" visits to living Korean War Veterans in Turkey at the anniversary of the war. Turkish contributions for the freedom of South Korea is still commemorated by senior Korean Officials

At 60s, Once again the indispensable service of Turkey was proved in Cuban Crisis. USSR threatened US over the nukes stored in Incirlik Base which is confirmed as a target in a conflict by Khrushchev. Turkey was an unwavering ally in the most heated times of the tension.

In the 70s &80s, the relatively peaceful years of the compete in EuroAsia at the Cold War, Turkey was the border station of Nato. Surveillance, reconnaissance operations were exerted by US via the stations in Anatolia during the Cold War.


After the Cold War, the ceasing the exist of USSR had caused a void space for regional actors. PKK as a Marxists organisation was supported by USSR, the main arsenal of PKK was Soviet made. Assad family of Syria used the PKK as a leverage after the Cold War
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With the help of Assads, the leading figures of PKK sheltered in Damascus till the Turkish-American pressure that is ended in the expelling of Ocalan the leader of the terrorist organisation.

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But the sheer numbers of PKK members remained in Syria and Northern Iraq for a long time. The horrendous bombings in Turkish cities, assassination of journalists, civil servants has continued. To refurbish the manpower, PKK kidnapped kids to recruit as a member.
PKK also calcified the PR organisations in European capitals. Disguised in charity, human rights associations, expat unions the PKK gained foothold in social strata of European society. Fund raising for PKK was the main task of so called advocates of minority rights in Europe.
There has been more than 30000 deaths bc of PKK's ominous attacks in Turkey. The Syrian civil war had given the opportunity for PKK to entrench its decades old (but weakened by Bashar Assad's policy) holdings. But PKK was a confirmed terrorist organisation by EU.
So they changed the name to take part in Syria freely without taking any defiance by the major powers. The newly formed name was YPG. Then a group of US military officers demanded from YPG to fix its name as SDF. YPG, SDF were all offshoots of PKK


At least the bad reputation was exonerated. But now YPG was using American weapons to shell southern cities of Turkey bordering with Syria. Turkey kicked off operations to repeal the PKK/YPG remnants through the southern of Syria far away from the border.

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The insensitivity of Western politicians throughout the Syrian civil war suddenly changed and EU countries unanimously condemned Turkey on Syrian operations.Turkey shared the intel on PKK/YPG fingerprints in bombings but the Western capitals turned a deaf ear to Turkish evidences

Swedish lawmakers were bickering with TR politicians over Syrian operations. They took the row further by sending more than 300m $ aid to YPG. Stockholm got under the skin of Turkey. Dozens of examples proving the affiliation of PKK sent by 🇹🇷 authorities to Sweden was ignored

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Turkey couldn't convince the Sweden to cut ties with YPG/PKK. The fund raising for PKK in Stockholm has continued constantly. But when Turkey has announced the possible veto on Sweden the European media has depicted the Turkish stance as a discrepancy in NATO.
The countries that are accepted to Nato in freecharge are shamelessly questioning the Turkish membership. A country that is always stayed above the fray while Turkey was sacrificing in Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan is intervening hopelessly in a discussion between Sweden- TR

Another culprit that has no relevance with 🇹🇷-Sweden talkings, annoyingly urging other members to think about 🇹🇷's commitment to NATO. The same hideous is rejecting the Independence of Kosovo, but on the other hand is pretending to be saviour of Scandinavian integrity in Nato


Turkish apprehension of the Swedish membership is directly introverted by security concerns. No other agenda or an absurd fantasy lies ahead like downbelow. I'm adding this without adhering any comment to leave it for the reader's comprehension.

Greece stands by NATO veto threat for MacedoniaGreece stood by its threat on Wednesday to veto NATO membership for Macedonia despite pressure from U.S. President George W. Bush to resolve a name dispute that could fuel instability in the Balkans.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-macedonia-idUSL0238277320080402

The conflict in Syria showed the feeble support of Major European countries'. The humbug approach isn't new contrary it has repeatedly proofed roots in history, which were either duplicitous and malicious examples.
I'm adding the first example by not adhering any comment which would let the reader to fathom insidious stance of European countries against Turkey. The year 2003👇


Nato deadlocked as France and Germany refuse to back downNato's plans to defend Turkey in case of war with Iraq remained deadlocked last night after France, Germany and Belgium ignored the entreaties of their fellow allies and refused to back down.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/feb/12/iraq.nato

Another terrifying incident that shifted Turkey's security paradigm that shakedown not only the Eurasia power balance but also drastically coerced US- Turkish relations. Year 2015


 

Wergeland

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NATO and Turkey has a long history of Turkey pursuing a path aligned with its own interests. Turkey is slowly becomming a liability and not an asset to NATO. Eventually NATO will have to let Turkey go (or simply disolve NATO and reunite without them) if they continue pursuing realpolitics not feeling constrained by its NATO responsebilities.

When Turkey accept Sweden and Finland into NATO, because they’ve been given something (not from Sweden or Finland), maybe you will understand or somehow accept that I might have a point.

You dont seem to understand NATO.
Its by large a US made organization.
There is a reason why Turkey is in NATO and Sweden and Finland is not, as of now.

Each member state is free to pursue its own strategic goals, and does so. NATO after all is a conglomerate of independent nations.
France forexample withdrew from NATO when its strategic goals were not aligned. UK pursues a different strategy than Germany. It will always be like this. There is no reason to be butthurt because Turkey, a growing powerhouse in the eastern mediteranian, also wishes to do so.

So far Turkey has been a vital US ally. It probably will continue to be so for the foreseeable future, albeit with a more assertive posture.
 

MeFishToo

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You dont seem to understand NATO.
Its by large a US made organization.
There is a reason why Turkey is in NATO and Sweden and Finland is not, as of now.

Each member state is free to pursue its own strategic goals, and does so. NATO after all is a conglomerate of independent nations.
France forexample withdrew from NATO when its strategic goals were not aligned. UK pursues a different strategy than Germany. It will always be like this. There is no reason to be butthurt because Turkey, a growing powerhouse in the eastern mediteranian, also wishes to do so.

So far Turkey has been a vital US ally. It probably will continue to be so for the foreseeable future, albeit with a more assertive posture.
I agree that NATO by large IS USA.
Lets not forget that Turkey, the vital ally, has its state defence industries sanctioned by the US. The turkish air force need modernization kits for its F-16 fleet. Maybe Turkey accept Sweden and Finland into NATO and still have an air force that is operational.

And again Turkey has been opposing american interests. Maybe Turkey doesnt understand NATO?
 

Wergeland

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Maybe Turkey accept Sweden and Finland into NATO and still have an air force that is operational.

Even if Turkey denied their entry, i doubt it would have any meaningful effect on Turkish air force the long term. Turkey by 2030s will be a mostly self sufficient armed forces.

And again Turkey has been opposing american interests. Maybe Turkey doesnt understand NATO?

Turkey is opposing American policies that harms its territorial integrity. Thats a thing between Turkey and the US. I dont see any good reason for Scandinavia to be hostile to Turkish national interests, except arrogance.
Not that hard to understand.

Mark that American policies also change with time and who leads the US administration.
 

MeFishToo

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Even if Turkey denied their entry, i doubt it would have any meaningful effect on Turkish air force the long term. Turkey by 2030s will be a mostly self sufficient armed forces.



Turkey is opposing American policies that harms its territorial integrity. Thats a thing between Turkey and the US. I dont see any good reason for Scandinavia to be hostile to Turkish national interests, except arrogance.
Not that hard to understand.

Mark that American policies also change with time and who leads the US administration.
Sweden and Finland joining NATO is of national interest of all the countries in Scandinavia and the Baltic region. Would you consider Turkey being hostile towards us?
 

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