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Turkish Presidency: We currently do not have a positive position on the issue of Sweden and Finland (joining NATO)

dBSPL

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This is how democracies work. Different opinions are voiced and the majority rules. The Left Party arguments shouldnt matter to anyone but swedes.
But then again, if youre from a country where the opposition is being harased and sentenced to jail, you wouldnt understand.
I doubt Turkey would be able to fulfill the NATO requirements if they were to apply today.
Turkey is one of the main building blocks of NATO. It is among the most powerful elements of the military wing, and it doesn't matter if a Dannish has created and believed in another reality in their world.

There is right and real evidence on which Turkey's reservations about Sweden's membership are based. However, the Turkish authorities' expressing their views on this issue led to anti-propaganda as a country hostile to European values, instead of freedom of expression and will; The fact that Swedish politicians are even unaware of NATO's relevant articles and writing nonsense things in the populism vortex, is it freedom of expression? Then you will see Turkey's freedom of expression in this too. While Sweden is burning for NATO membership, if its politicians bring the issue to war&blood with a populism over Turkey and Islam; The Turks will accept these wishes and keep Sweden out of the NATO.

You have a lot to learn. First of all, we will help you get rid of this arrogance.
 
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WotTen

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I don't know but there are countless ideas on the table:
  • modernization of the EU-Turkish customs union
  • handing over our F35s and reparticipation of Turkish companies in the respective program
  • lifting of all sanctions related to the Turkish defense industry
  • support for Turkey's intervention in Syria/establishing a safe zone for refugees within the borders of Syria
  • recognition of Northern Cyprus or, at the very least, lifting of all trade related sanctions currently in place
  • taking long-lasting and real actions against PKK
  • public support for the internationally recognized government of Libya
  • forcing Greece to demilitarize islands close to Turkish shores
  • accepting Azerbaijan's sovereignty over Karabakh
  • etc.
Well, one thing's for sure: it is going to cost the Europeans dearly. This is not a decision that should be simply shrugged off by Turkey. We're going to live with the consequences until the day NATO ceases to exist. Some serious negotiations between Europe and Turkey need to take place before any step is taken.

All of these actions can be reversed in due time after Sweden and Finland join NATO.

Him not having a positive view doesnt mean Turkey is going to veto Finland and Sweden joining NATO. Turkey is trying to please relations with Russia while being part of NATO. Its not easy. A semi dictatorship being part of NATO is always going to be problem.

Can you show us opinion polls in France, Italy, Spain that popular opinion supports Sweden and Finland's accession to NATO?
 

MeFishToo

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All of these actions can be reversed in due time after Sweden and Finland join NATO.



Can you show us opinion polls in France, Italy, Spain that popular opinion supports Sweden and Finland's accession to NATO?
No, but I can assure you that this matter is way to serious for Erdogan to be allowed using it showing off. The exact same happend when the danish prime minister was chosen to be secretary general of NATO.
I dont know what the popular opinion in southern europe is, but I am sure most northern europeans wonder why Turkey is part of NATO.
 

MeFishToo

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Turkey is one of the main building blocks of NATO. It is among the most powerful elements of the military wing, and it doesn't matter if a Dannish has created and believed in another reality in their world.

There is right and real evidence on which Turkey's reservations about Sweden's membership are based. However, the Turkish authorities' expressing their views on this issue led to anti-propaganda as a country hostile to European values, instead of freedom of expression and will; The fact that Swedish politicians are even unaware of NATO's relevant articles and writing nonsense things in the populism vortex, is it freedom of expression? Then you will see Turkey's freedom of expression in this too. While Sweden is burning for NATO membership, if its politicians bring the issue to war&blood with a populism over Turkey and Islam; The Turks will accept these wishes and keep Sweden out of the NATO.

You have a lot to learn. First of all, we will help you get rid of this arrogance.
Youre saying Turkey will keep Sweden out of NATO eventhough almost all the other countries welcome sweden and finland, and belive they are an asset to NATO?.. Is all of Turkey infected with megalomaniac tendencies?
 

WotTen

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No, but I can assure you that this matter is way to serious for Erdogan to be allowed using it showing off. The exact same happend when the danish prime minister was chosen to be secretary general of NATO.
I dont know what the popular opinion in southern europe is, but I am sure most northern europeans wonder why Turkey is part of NATO.

So, no objective evidence other than your gut feeling?
 
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No, but I can assure you that this matter is way to serious for Erdogan to be allowed using it showing off. The exact same happend when the danish prime minister was chosen to be secretary general of NATO.
I dont know what the popular opinion in southern europe is, but I am sure most northern europeans wonder why Turkey is part of NATO.
All politics aside, the British and Americans would rather risk losing Denmark than Turkey as a NATO member. Given the size of its economy, population and cultural footprint, the geography and its military potential, Turkey is undoubtedly needed to tip the scale in favor of Europe and the US in the current and future power game of geopolitics. Ukraine is just a stark reminder of this old and undeniable fact.

To make it very clear: you can handle Russia on its own but you can't deal with Turkey and Russia at the same time.

However, no government in Turkey has EVER questioned our NATO membership - not even Mr. Erdoğan, though, this doesn't mean that taking in Sweden should be accepted lightly. Did you know that the AK party of Erdoğan has always defended NATO against domestic criticism from far-right, far-left and religious extremists? A barely known truth in the West.

You've also mentioned democracy and majority/minority voices in a free society. A majority in Turkey - including liberal democrats like myself - are not very fond of a Swedish admission. Why are our concerns brushed aside and not taken seriously?

A membership in NATO is a life insurance and in many ways much more worth than being a member state in the EU, hence, the British withdrawal from the European Union while reaffirming its NATO alliance.

I wish you'd treat the Turkish perspective more sincerely. After all, we've signed to defend your way of life by all means necessary even if it means death.
 
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dBSPL

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Throughout history, Sweden has been an ally of the Turks in most periods when it was under pressure from Russia.

In fact, this friendship was so advanced that; The Swedish king had to take refuge in Turkey (Charles XII of Sweden) after a war in which he was defeated. When the king lost the war, the handful of soldiers left were Karoliners and Kazaks. In order not to fall into the hands of the Russians, he took refuge in an Ottoman Turkish border post. He lived on our land for a while and was revered. Then he returned safely to his country. We have not spared our help for Sweden during some of the most difficult periods of their history.

Our expectation from Sweden is that if they want to raise our alliance level again in the military field, they need to act accordingly.

Fortunately, there are still sensible politicians in Sweden who are aware of this geopolitical imperative and unlike the media and some irresponsible politicians. Swedish foreign minister Ann Linde made a statement this evening and used exactly the following statements.

"We believe that the PKK is a terrorist organization, it is not true that we will not classify the PKK as a terrorist organization. If such a perception has arisen, it needs to be clarified. We will meet with Turkey's Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu on Sunday."

We understand Sweden's difficult situation. Our only expectation is that Sweden need to show goodwill by making up for some of its mistakes in this process. If Sweden takes positive steps, Turkey will respond in the same way.
 

EAGLE777

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All politics aside, the British and Americans would rather risk losing Denmark than Turkey as a NATO member. Given the size of its economy, population and cultural footprint, the geography and its military potential, Turkey is undoubtedly needed to tip the scale in favor of Europe and the US in the current and future power game of geopolitics. Ukraine is just a stark reminder of this old and undeniable fact.

To make it very clear: you can handle Russia on its own but you can't deal with Turkey and Russia at the same time.

However, no government in Turkey has EVER questioned our NATO membership - not even Mr. Erdoğan, though, this doesn't mean that taking in Sweden should be accepted lightly. Did you know that the AK party of Erdoğan has always defended NATO against domestic criticism from far-right, far-left and religious extremists? A barely known truth in the West.

You've also mentioned democracy and majority/minority voices in a free society. A majority in Turkey - including liberal democrats like myself - are not very fond of a Swedish admission. Why are our concerns brushed aside and not taken seriously?

A membership in NATO is a life insurance and in many ways much more worth than being a member state in the EU, hence, the British withdrawal from the European Union while reaffirming its NATO alliance.

I wish you'd treat the Turkish perspective more sincerely. After all, we've signed to defend your way of life by all means necessary even if it means death.
This is why LHD programme is very important after it is finished and operational Turkiye’s status within nato becomes stronger.
 

MeFishToo

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All politics aside, the British and Americans would rather risk losing Denmark than Turkey as a NATO member. Given the size of its economy, population and cultural footprint, the geography and its military potential, Turkey is undoubtedly needed to tip the scale in favor of Europe and the US in the current and future power game of geopolitics. Ukraine is just a stark reminder of this old and undeniable fact.

To make it very clear: you can handle Russia on its own but you can't deal with Turkey and Russia at the same time.

However, no government in Turkey has EVER questioned our NATO membership - not even Mr. Erdoğan, though, this doesn't mean that taking in Sweden should be accepted lightly. Did you know that the AK party of Erdoğan has always defended NATO against domestic criticism from far-right, far-left and religious extremists? A barely known truth in the West.

You've also mentioned democracy and majority/minority voices in a free society. A majority in Turkey - including liberal democrats like myself - are not very fond of a Swedish admission. Why are our concerns brushed aside and not taken seriously?

A membership in NATO is a life insurance and in many ways much more worth than being a member state in the EU, hence, the British withdrawal from the European Union while reaffirming its NATO alliance.

I wish you'd treat the Turkish perspective more sincerely. After all, we've signed to defend your way of life by all means necessary even if it means death.
Scandinavia and the Baltic region is never going to be defended by turkish troops. The turkish military manpower is meant to uphold domestic security. I dont know why the turks consider themself more than a regional power.
Having Sweden and Finland as NATO members strengthen security in the region. Reality is that northern europe is going to defend the north with help from the USA and UK. Erdogan trying to score some political points yet again serves as an example that Turkey is no true ally of the north.
 

Wood

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Very interesting development. It will be interesting to see how America deals with this. Turkey is a very important NATO member :pop:
 

A.P. Richelieu

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Sweden has the same opinion as the rest of the EU.
PKK is considered a terrorist organisation.
YPG is not considered a terrorist organisation.

The Left wing party and the Green party are opposed to joining NATO, and argument that has been shown in this tread is not 100% correct.
They are opposed to the Turkish invasion of Syria and do not want Swedish troops to be involved.
As article 5 does not require anyone to help out here, and Turkey has not triggered article 5, statements like these from the Left Wing party are simply misinformed.
The official statement from them opposes joining NATO because that gives them freedom to criticize the flawed democracies in Turkey and Hungary.
 

Wergeland

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All politics aside, the British and Americans would rather risk losing Denmark than Turkey as a NATO member. Given the size of its economy, population and cultural footprint, the geography and its military potential, Turkey is undoubtedly needed to tip the scale in favor of Europe and the US in the current and future power game of geopolitics. Ukraine is just a stark reminder of this old and undeniable fact.

To make it very clear: you can handle Russia on its own but you can't deal with Turkey and Russia at the same time.

However, no government in Turkey has EVER questioned our NATO membership - not even Mr. Erdoğan, though, this doesn't mean that taking in Sweden should be accepted lightly. Did you know that the AK party of Erdoğan has always defended NATO against domestic criticism from far-right, far-left and religious extremists? A barely known truth in the West.

You've also mentioned democracy and majority/minority voices in a free society. A majority in Turkey - including liberal democrats like myself - are not very fond of a Swedish admission. Why are our concerns brushed aside and not taken seriously?

A membership in NATO is a life insurance and in many ways much more worth than being a member state in the EU, hence, the British withdrawal from the European Union while reaffirming its NATO alliance.

I wish you'd treat the Turkish perspective more sincerely. After all, we've signed to defend your way of life by all means necessary even if it means death.

Bro youre wasting time with these ignorant types.

Trust me there are too many of them to waste your precious time. We have them in Norway too. They quite literally get their news and world knowledge from tabloid newspapers.

Geopolitics is a complex, subtle and sometimes hidden knowledge.Thats way too much for tabloid munchers.
 

MeFishToo

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Turkeys geography is all that matters, as do the geography of Scandinavia and the Baltics. The scandinavian countries have a combined economy twice the size of Turkey. The economy or military potential of Turkey is no better than scandinavia, and Sweden and Finland is a vital part controlling the baltic sea and the arctic, which is why Erdogan should keep his eyes south and east and forget about scoring political points at home.

Btw how many NATO drills in the Baltic or Scandinavia have Turkey participated in? My guess is none, while Sweden and Finland are regular participants.
 
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Wergeland

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Turkeys geography is all that matters, as do the geography of Scandinavia and the Baltics. The scandinavian countries have a combined economy twice the size of Turkey. The economy or military potential of Turkey is no better than scandinavia, and Sweden and Finland is a vital part controlling the baltic sea and the arctic, which is why Erdogan should keep his eyes south and east and forget about scoring political points at home.

Btw how many NATO drills in the Baltic or Scandinavia have Turkey participated in? My guess is none, while Sweden and Finland are regular participants.

Anatolia is a geographically vital region for NATO. If Turkey wasnt in NATO, entire mediterranean would be compromised.

While Scandinavia is also a important location, in order to prevent Russian influence in the North, fact remains that the Mediterranean basin is where hundreds of millions of people live. Turkey not only acts as a gateway to Mediterranean for Russia, but also affects Middle-Eastern influence.

Historically Anatolia has been the center of huge empires which controlled eastern meditteranean and Levant.
 

MeFishToo

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Anatolia is a geographically vital region for NATO. If Turkey wasnt in NATO, entire mediterranean would be compromised.

While Scandinavia is also a important location, in order to prevent Russian influence in the North, fact remains that the Mediterranean basin is where hundreds of millions of people live. Turkey not only acts as a gateway to Mediterranean for Russia, but also affects Middle-Eastern influence.

Historically Anatolia has been the center of huge empires which controlled eastern meditteranean and Levant.
My point exactly. Turkey should pay attention to its region and not disrupt a major NATO victory in the north. But somehow turkish interests again disrupts NATO interests. NATO and Russia is facing a potential conflict, and Turkey is navel-gazing.
 

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