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Turkish constitutional referendum 2017 - News, Update & Discussion

Attila the Hun

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They don't see them as turks

A lot of Europeans see them as Turkified natives and brainwashed by Ottomans ;)
Nothing to do with Islam. They won't be accepted to EU because of it. But lets say Bosnia and Albania get entry into EU, will this mean they don't dislike Islam and like Turks ? No. It'll be because they get something out of it.
Anyways, this is a pointless discussion, Turkiye will never join EU, with Islam or without it.
 

A.P. Richelieu

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Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe brands elections as unfair.

https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/turkey/311721?download=true

The 16 April constitutional referendum took place on an unlevel playing field and the two sides of the campaign did not have equal opportunities. Voters were not provided with impartial information about key aspects of the reform, and civil society organizations were not able to participate. Under the state of emergency put in place after the July 2016 failed coup attempt, fundamental freedoms essential to a genuinely democratic process were curtailed. The dismissal or detention of thousands of citizens negatively affected the political environment. One side’s dominance in the coverage and restrictions on the media reduced voters’ access to a plurality of views. While the technical aspects of the referendum were well administered and referendum day proceeded in an orderly manner, late changes in counting procedures removed an important safeguard and were contested by the opposition.
 

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he 16 April constitutional referendum took place on an unlevel playing field and the two sides of the campaign did not have equal opportunities. Voters were not provided with impartial information about key aspects of the reform, and civil society organizations were not able to participate. Under the state of emergency put in place after the July 2016 failed coup attempt, fundamental freedoms essential to a genuinely democratic process were curtailed. The dismissal or detention of thousands of citizens negatively affected the political environment. One side’s dominance in the coverage and restrictions on the media reduced voters’ access to a plurality of views.
True. Propaganda process was unfair but it's not like one side restricted other ones propaganda....It was more like, one side had enormous resources when compared with other side.

While the technical aspects of the referendum were well administered and referendum day proceeded in an orderly manner,
True. We kept saying "it's impossible to cheat in Turkey's election system."

late changes in counting procedures removed an important safeguard
and were contested by the opposition.
Well, i'm too bitter that "Yes" vote come out of the ballot box.

However, rejecting the change in the procedure is no different than rejecting like, "Hey, this paper's color should have been white according to regulations, however it's grey. Let's repeat the whole voting process."
 

A.P. Richelieu

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True. Propaganda process was unfair but it's not like one side restricted other ones propaganda....It was more like, one side had enormous resources when compared with other side.


True. We kept saying "it's impossible to cheat in Turkey's election system."


Well, i'm too bitter that "Yes" vote come out of the ballot box.

However, rejecting the change in the procedure is no different than rejecting like, "Hey, this paper's color should have been white according to regulations, however it's grey. Let's repeat the whole voting process."

I think the request is for a recount and number of votes needs to be cross referenced
vs the actual numbers of voters.

In Sweden you run three elections at the same time, and each election would
use. Its own colour, and if you used the wrong colour, for sure the vote is rejected.

A secure voting system would allow each individual to check their vote after the election
so it has not been tampered with. Not aware of anyone doing this though.

From the report.

The legal framework for the referendum neither sufficiently provides for impartial coverage nor guarantees eligible political parties equal access to public media, and gives preference to the ruling party and the president in the allocation of free airtime, while the SBE’s authority to sanction for biased coverage was repealed, the statement says.

The law limits full participation in the referendum to eligible political parties and does not regulate the involvement of other stakeholders, the statement says. Further, the SBE decided that civil society organizations and professional associations were not permitted to hold campaign events.

“The campaign framework was restrictive and the campaign imbalanced due to the active involvement of several leading national officials, as well as many local public officials, in the ‘Yes’ campaign,” de Zulueta said. “We observed the misuse of state resources, as well as the obstruction of ‘No’ campaign events. The campaign rhetoric was tarnished by some senior officials equating ‘No’ supporters with terrorist sympathizers, and in numerous cases ‘No’ supporters faced police interventions and violent scuffles at their events.”
 
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I think the request is for a recount and number of votes needs to be cross referenced
vs the actual numbers of voters.

In Sweden you run three elections at the same time, and each election would
use. Its own colour, and if you used the wrong colour, for sure the vote is rejected.

A secure voting system would allow each individual to check their vote after the election
so it has not been tampered with. Not aware of anyone doing this though.
It's not like that.....

You are given an envelope and a voting card. According to regulations there should be a stamp on the envelope (practically it effects nothing, it's just a procedure) But in some voting centers, the envelopes that have been given by the YSK (High Election Board) had no stamps (by mistake)....which would render all the votes in some voting centers as invalid.

YSK during the voting process said, those envelopes would which had no stamps on it, is also valid.

Imagine the otherwise if they had not made this change a huge number of votes would be rendered as invalid, which would have cast a real shadow on voting process.

Yes, it's a huge fvck up by YSK, but in no way, for this procedure change (not a stamp on the envelope) it effects the voting process.

In Turkey after the elections you can check the results of the ballot box you casted your vote.

You see the number of the voters which casted their votes.
Number of the votes which corresponds to "X" or "Y" party,
Number of the invalid votes.

You can't check your vote individually, i mean nobody have access to vote you are casting. It's hidden by nature as it should be.
 
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The law limits full participation in the referendum to eligible political parties and does not regulate the involvement of other stakeholders, the statement says. Further, the SBE decided that civil society organizations and professional associations were not permitted to hold campaign events.

“The campaign framework was restrictive and the campaign imbalanced due to the active involvement of several leading national officials, as well as many local public officials, in the ‘Yes’ campaign,” de Zulueta said. “We observed the misuse of state resources, as well as the obstruction of ‘No’ campaign events. The campaign rhetoric was tarnished by some senior officials equating ‘No’ supporters with terrorist sympathizers,
All true, except;

and in numerous cases ‘No’ supporters faced police interventions and violent scuffles at their events.”
I was not aware of this. In one case, i saw (on the news) "No" supporters constructed a prefabricated building in the public space where regulations says you can only set up tents. Municipality workers dismantled it."

In another case opposition from Nationalist party came under attack of Grey wolves. (In party disagreements)
 

xenon54 out

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In another case opposition from Nationalist party came under attack of Grey wolves. (In party disagreements)
Another interesting detail is that only a small fraction of nationalists voted yes, this means MHP lost its voter base and wont make it in parliament in the next elections.
MHP is gone for good, the first resingment allready happened, i think a new party is on the way, Bahceli will pay his tribute for being Erdogans toy.
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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there are several concerns the number of voters in Germany was pretty low... around 50%
looks like Erdogan has moved more of his voters than the No campaign was able to move to the election.

Scarry that people living since decades in true democracy with freedom, freedom of speach, free movement, free religion, no death penalty are voting for dictatorship death penalty for other people living in Turkey ... maybe they should leave europe and life in their dream land under their dreamleader.... It is easy to vote for a strong man with harsh justice if you are 3000km away lifing confortable in one of the most modern nations on earth and in the worst case they can get German citizenship and are safe ...

Here the politicans say this is a red line Turkey steped over...specialy if Erdogan realy introduce death penalty
Consequense

No more EU membership
in 14 day the leader of the EU meet and they will end membership talks with Turkey once and for all

No more weapon trades
no one in the EU cares anymore if Turkey is still NATO member

No money from EU anymore
Turkey recive billions from the EU as part of the becoming membership help ...so far 4.8billion Euro from 2008 till 2013 and 4.45billion Euro from 2013 till 2020...

No more benefit trade with EU members... all is turned back to international standart with tariffes on everything Turkey export to EU

I see realy bad times comeing for turkish citzien in Turkey...
Looks like some folks want to "isolate" Turkey!!!!!
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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Well, Europe gave us the warning, if capital punishment comes then say goodbye to economy.

Look everything has its limits and so should Erdogans might have.
Reis Erdo'an is a great player of timing. Everything will come in due time. As for EU, will they be hanging around for long??? The most astute amongst them has already left!!!!
 

xenon54 out

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Reis Erdo'an is a great player of timing. Everything will come in due time. As for EU, will they be hanging around for long??? The most astute amongst them has already left!!!!
Half of our economy is depending on EU, i wiritng it down here remeber those words, if Erdogan keeps changind the country a major economic blow is on the way, if it isnt too late already.
 

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