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Turkish Airpower has a Fifth Generation Aircraft Problem

blain2

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This was political decision,had to be done(to much to elaborate).
We will get the F-35 eventually,no worries there.
I agree with your assessment. Turkey and the US will get back on track on the F-35s. The best option for Turkey to induct F-35s while driving parallel indigenous development of their own fifth generation aircraft.

This is an imperative given Greece's decision to go for F-35s as well and for as long as Turkey remains within NATO, all sorts of deals are possible on the F-35. I don't think the US wants Turkey to walk away completely either.
 

PeacefulWar

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I wonder if any Japanese knew it before you? @Figaro
He is just a delusional Turk wet dreamer.
Japanese are more capable to develop high technology compare to Turkey for sure, but why would they risk the anger of Americans to sell/give core tech to some random country , LOL.
As usual, some turks are having wet dreams.
 

Kamil_baku

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He is just a delusional Turk wet dreamer.
Japanese are more capable to develop high technology compare to Turkey for sure, but why would they risk the anger of Americans to sell/give core tech to some random country , LOL.
As usual, some turks are having wet dreams.
Japanese didnt share their Tank engine teknoloji WHen Erdogan asked, but they will share jet engine teknoloji? get real please...
 

FuturePAF

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We must admit it is beyond the capability to independently develop a 5-gen fighter for countries other than the Big Fives, or to be more openly, for all countries except the US. You need to invest tens of billions of $$ and have peak technologies (especially engines) to develop a 5-gen fighter, which is too hard for most of countries. US technological hegemony is always powerful, and the situation will only be worse.

Our J-20 is bothered by the engines and WS-15 has to take another 5-10 years to be introduced, and currently only are installed with WS-10 for workaround.
Russian Su-57 has flaws in stealth and avionics and is only a 4++++.
European countries select to buy F-35.
France is yet to develop one, not to mention Sweden.
Korean KF-X is only a 4.5 gen and it is still beyond their capability without involving L&M in
TF-X is even in worse situaion than KF-X after RR quited and US put sanctions on Turkey.
Indian said AMCA would come out in 3-5 years, but I don't quite believe their speed.

Engines is the most crucial part for a new fighter.

Current available high-thrust engine: US F-135/F-119 > RU 117S > US F110/F100 / RU AL-31F / CN WS-10
In development: RU Product 30 / CN WS-15. will be the same level (or even a little inferior to) as F-119/F-135, and take at least 5~10 years to be mature.
For a heavy 5-gen fighter, you need F-119/WS-15/Product 30 class engine, which are only produced by US.

Current available mid-thrust engine: UK EJ200/US F-414> US F-404 / RU RD93 / FR M88 > CN WS-13
Our new mid-thrust engine is still under development and won't come out in years. Even France and Russia don't have a matching one with RR/GE. The gap is there.

In fact, the only options for a 5-gen fighter are F-119/F-135/F-414/EJ-200. Even minor performance loss is acceptable, choices are only above. In short, US controls the engine of 5-gen fighter, and its position is even not challenged.


So F-35 can be used as an ultimate political tool by US --- if you don't follow US interest, you will not have 5-gen fighter.
Turkey is kicked out from F-35, even though it is a co-founder of F-35 program.
GCC countries are full of money but they cannot by F35, while Israel become the first foreign user of F-35 without even being a co-founder.

Turkey needs a real 5-gen fighter rather than just-so-so 4.5 or 4++ or 4++++ or whatever toys, since there will be more F-35 operators in its neighborhood. I bet Turkey will go back to F-35 in the future, of course at some political cost.
All the more reason for the Chinese to get the J-31 right. If they can get it to anywhere near F-35 capabilities, they can offer it countries shut out of the F-35 market, and win some political allies in the process. All the more reason for them to acquire the Su-57 and get the best Russian Engine tech, and catch up by Any Means Necessary.

If The J-31 can outperform in signature management enough to get the first shot against meteor equipped Rafales and Eurofighters of the GCC countries, it has a good chance to win large orders from Iran. Once the GCC countries know Iran has the capabilities to defeat their 4.5 gen fighters they will seek to acquire a 5th gen counter.
 
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Deactivated

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Japanese didnt share their Tank engine teknoloji WHen Erdogan asked, but they will share jet engine teknoloji? get real please...
They didn't sell the tech. because TR openly said that they will sell the Altay to AZ - there is an embargo on AZ since 92 -
 

PeacefulWar

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maybe because our bilateral relationship is good? but - again there is a doglover hijacking the thread...
and they are more capable than chinacovid19 - aka the chinese virus - aka. they are even more capable than the US... sadly u r unable to read, otherwise you would know, that the US pushed JP so they could participate in their program... I will just block you
Lol, a butthurt kid is pissed off because his wet dream is broken.
 

Figaro

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I wonder if any Japanese knew it before you? @Figaro
Japanese tech in some areas is pretty advanced ... in engine technology for example, they are arguably the second most advanced country in Asia after China (due to Japan's highly developed metallurgy and extensive foreign help, namely RR). It would be wise for Turkey to try and see if they can produce the Japanese tank engine for their Altay, but AFAIK Japan is unwilling to sell them. It appears the only viable options for Turkey at this point may be Ukranian or Russian engines if they want license production/TOT.
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@PeacefulWar
I recommend not staying where you think wet dreams are. Be sure, your absence will not even go unnoticed.
What is the point of making this thinly veiled threat?
 
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I give props to Turkiye they did what few dare, less do. Independence is not cheap! As it stands slaves got fed while others lived free but fended for themselves.

Turkiye has to pull it off and be better for it... not all solutions come off the shelf. There is a reason why India is the largest cow on the block ... show hay and milk!
 

IblinI

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Japanese tech in some areas is pretty advanced ... in engine technology for example, they are arguably the second most advanced country in Asia after China (due to Japan's highly developed metallurgy and extensive foreign help, namely RR). It would be wise for Turkey to try and see if they can produce the Japanese tank engine for their Altay, but AFAIK Japan is unwilling to sell them. It appears the only viable options for Turkey at this point may be Ukranian or Russian engines if they want license production/TOT. View attachment 659438

What is the point of making this thinly veiled threat?
Give credit where it dues but what that guy said was Jap doesn't need US but otherway around, I believed none of the japanese is having this idea in mind but him,an Azerbaijani.
 

Figaro

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Give credit where it dues but what that guy said was Jap doesn't need US but otherway around, I believed none of the japanese is having this idea in mind but him,an Azerbaijani.
He is wrong ... most of Japan's IP contains US technology.
 

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