• Friday, April 19, 2019

Turkey’s STM offers FAC-55 missile boat to Pakistan

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by The SC, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Sinan out

    Sinan out ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    16,014
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Ratings:
    +35 / 30,576 / -3
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    @Neptune

    Do you know if we are getting these ?

    I think, this FAC-55 would be a perfect fit for Aegean. What do you think ?
     
  2. imadul

    imadul FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    760
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    Ratings:
    +0 / 610 / -0
    Country:
    United States
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Thank you, Bilal Khan.
    Thats definitely better, but still quiet expensive projects. How many Milgems, 6-8, and 6 FAC? And 8 Chinese SSK.
    $600 million contract with Ukrain for modernization of tanks etc.
    I feel Pak Armed Forces in some hurry. These are lots of equipments even considering CPEC. They are preparing for something big in near term future!!!!!!
    Comments?
     
  3. Tank131

    Tank131 FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    775
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Ratings:
    +3 / 1,535 / -0
    Country:
    United States
    Location:
    United States
    As @Bilal Khan (Quwa) stated, most PN projects have been with ToT and at least a portion of each order is build at KS&EW.

    I agree though, something big for navy is coming. I think they are looking for 4 corvette frigates and 4 to 6 FAC (hopefully FAC-55). I hope they also look to buy 2-4 Type 057 as command ships (with solid state AESA and 48 cell VLS in addition to 2 ciws and a 24 cell fl3000n it is set up to be a variable beast in aor defense if it has the right weapons (hq9, CAMM etc)
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 5
  4. imadul

    imadul FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    760
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    Ratings:
    +0 / 610 / -0
    Country:
    United States
    Location:
    Pakistan
    I feel an urgency from armed forces in acquiring all these hardware. Are military planners expecting some looming military challenge in near to long term future?
     
  5. CriticalThought

    CriticalThought SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,648
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2016
    Ratings:
    +8 / 5,246 / -4
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Australia
    My personal reading of these naval developments:

    1. They are long overdue given systematic negligence at the hands of consecutive governments who have left it on the sidelines like a step child.

    2. Chinese apprehensions of Indian designs against CPEC trade.

    3. In general, India's disturbing pace of development of its naval fleet.

    It doesn't necessarily mean there are troubling times ahead. The only trouble is Hindu fanaticism which is extremely unpredictable.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6
  6. Tank131

    Tank131 FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    775
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Ratings:
    +3 / 1,535 / -0
    Country:
    United States
    Location:
    United States
    Well if you look at the geostrategic implications of Gwadar and CPEC you can see why certain things are happening. 40% of the worlds crude oil passes through the straights of hormus and while 80% overall passes through the Indian ocean. This will increase with the removal of sanctions against Iran amd with further development of the CAR oil fields. Additionally, 40% of all shipborne trade occurs in the Indian ocean. That is why gwardar is so important. It will sit at the jugular of the worlds energy supply.

    As for CPEC. The previous land routs to deliver goods to cemtral and western china (which has become its industrial hub) is 4500+km, and the ocean route is 10k+ km. CPEC decreases this to 2500km. That saves time and $$. Additionally it prohibits India, Japan, Philippines, US or anuone else, from messing with Chinese commerce in the Straights of Malacca (where 35%of worlds oil traverses) or in the South China Sea.

    It will make Gwadar the single most vital port in the Indian Ocean and will make Pakistan the energy and commerce hub for China, Central Asia, and potentially Russia. Had relationships been better, India and Afghanistan would have greatly benefitted from this project but we all know how thats going. The combined Gwadar and CPEC will turn Pakistan into what dubai should have achieved (if they are successful in living up to expectations).

    Hence to protect this and the investments of trade partners, Pakistan will need to build up Navy and MSA to defend against piracy and IN.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6
  7. CHI RULES

    CHI RULES FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,317
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Ratings:
    +0 / 919 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Dear Sir, considering current serious situation with India there is no hidden truth that weakest area of armed forces require major concentration which is obviously PN. The current position of PN with vintage F21 frigates and two Agosta 70s is some what very critical. PN ships virtually have medium range SAM only on three F21s i.e LY60 which itself is of questionable nature. The new F22Ps only have short range SAM defense with limited capabilities.

    The biggest joke is sole OHP of PN without any known SAM defense and armed with old harpoons.
    The only stable area in PN is it's air arm having upgraded Sea Kings, Z9s and P3c and perhps Fokers. Also being supported by a squadron of JF17s assigned by PAF. However Mirage 5 cannot be considered as threat to IN.
     
  8. Tank131

    Tank131 FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    775
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Ratings:
    +3 / 1,535 / -0
    Country:
    United States
    Location:
    United States
    Yes and the 4 MILGEM-G if equipped properly would go a long way to address that. I have also previously layed out how to imprpve the situation of Alamghir (provided more ohp can be acquired, most likely route would be the acquisition of the remaining 3 Adelaides from Australia, which all have 8 cell mk 41). If all Adelaides are fitted with CAMM, as are the MILGEM-G, then the Alamghir can get am 8 celll sylver A43 or A50 where the other OHP have mk41. Replace its radars with smart S mk2 from Aselsan and you have 4 OHP with 32 medium range SAM (60km) 4 MILGEM-G with 64 medium range SAM. Refit F-22p with vls if possible and get 2 type 057 and you are in far better shape vis a vis the IN.

    As for air arm, PN will get some relief via the ATR-72 Refits that will start in Germany by RAS, giving PN 3 new MPAs. But i think PN/PAC should approach China for possible ToT of Y-8gx6 or Indonesia about CN235 pr more likely CN245 which will give Pakistan the ability tp produce light transports amd the ability to have modern MPA with the ability to drop 6-8 torpedoes or AShM.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  9. Neptune

    Neptune SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,616
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Ratings:
    +52 / 11,542 / -0
    Country:
    Turkey
    Location:
    Turkey
    I think we have three different tenders for such ships right now under the Patrol Boat Category.
    • New Generation Fast Patrol Boat Project (8 ships, for the protection of DZKK naval installations)

    • New Generation Turkish Type Attack Craft Project (4+8 ships)

    • New Type Special Operations-craft for SAT (IDK if it is a replacement for the ones they have or if they want bigger ships. 2 vessels).

    My choice would be:

    [​IMG]


    But if the rumors are true, I mean RMK's proposal to install a smaller version of CAFRAD complex on its mass, it would be the unconditional choice in my opinion. Because in this project I assume DZKK wants do deal with Aegean with relevantly even smaller ships with the firepower Ada-class corvettes. For the region we need compact, fast, small ships with high firepower supported by long range sensors. Navy wants SMART-S Mk2 like long range radar. I think they certainly want to increase the situational awareness of the Air Force in the region by using naval power.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
    • Thanks Thanks x 5
  10. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    28,159
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Ratings:
    +37 / 26,633 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    China
    The fast attack platform does offers ample defences and improvements however we really need move towards , the larger frigate platforms like Type 054 from China or the Much alarger improved Frigate ships from Turkey

    Here is a modest comparison of the stealth boats we are making in Pakistan vs general size of some frigate/destroyers in market and comparison with carrier

    shippakistan.png

    • We need 10 Lease ships from China of Type 054B grade , 180-220m range (Focal point)
    • ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    • We need 6 Corvettes from Turkey (163-180 meter range), Purchase (Support group )
    • We need 20 Fast attack stealth design (Turkey/China), Purchase (Support group)

    The defence strategy could not just be around small fast attack boats , the fast attack platform plays a vital role in greater strategy or tools in hands of Navy Leaders but you also need ample ships in Frigate / Destroyer category

    For us we need to fill the void in Frigate Level / Corvette levels more promptly vs Fast attack boat

    Fast attack ships can form small groups with Frigates for nice defence Units but we really need units that balance the 3 Areas

    a) Air Defence
    b) Surface Combat
    c) Under water Defence
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  11. Zarvan

    Zarvan ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    47,037
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Ratings:
    +83 / 48,139 / -13
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    We need around 25 major Frigates in next 10 to 15 years. This is minimum and those Frigates should be have capability of firing both long range Air Defence Missiles and also Long Range Cruise Missiles. I mean similar to French FREMM class.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  12. Bilal Khan (Quwa)

    Bilal Khan (Quwa) SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    2,778
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2016
    Ratings:
    +15 / 6,609 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Canada
    From my understanding, the PN is looking for 4 new frigates to replace the 5 Type 21s currently in service. Sure, there is a chance that after the new design is finalized and ordered, the PN will pick up 4 used frigates to serve as a stopgap. But in the end, we are basically talking about 4 ships, maybe 6 if there's money for it (but don't count on it). Each one of these ships is going to cost $300 to $350 million, at least.

    Yes, the PN has a need for a lot of surface ships to patrol its EEZ and SLOCs, sure, but one doesn't need lots of full-out multi-mission frigates to achieve this feat. Thanks to advances in on-board sensor and electronics technology, even small ships - such as the STM FAC-55 - can be potent and fully capable packages in terms of patrolling the seas and defending littoral waters. In fact, the Israelis even managed to fit potent AAW capabilities into their 1,275-ton Sa'ar 5. I think we should seriously expect the PN to build the core of its fleet around such corvettes.

    But regarding the 4 (maybe 6) frigates.

    If the PN isn't pursing the MILGEM-G from Turkey, then the frigates will almost certainly be an improved variant of the C28A with VLS. To be honest, I don't think the weapons package will change much between the two, especially if the integration work could be done in Pakistan. The key variable will be to see who comes up with a good quad-pack'able MR-SAM by the mid-to-late 2020s, i.e. when these new-built frigates will hitting sea-trials.

    As I see it, the AShW package will probably be Chinese, possibly a mix between sub-sonic sea-skimming AShM like C-802 or TL-7 and supersonic-cruising AShM like CX-1 or CM-302. The interesting about the MILGEM-G is that it has room for 16 (via 2x8 cells) AShM, which means we might have room to fit in a mix. Not sure if we could fit a VLS in that area for AShM and LACM instead of the cells, would be interesting though.

    The VLS will see a quad-pack'able MR-SAM. The Roketsan Hisar-O and Norinco DK-10 would be the leading options, but if for some reason unavailable, then the PN will have to go Western European. With it, the PN will be wise to grab the FN-3000N for PDMS.

    As for LACM, that is tough to tell. The strike element should be fulfilled by the new submarines, and I imagine that would be the best delivery method considering they'd be more difficult to detect and take-on than a surface warship. The PN might need to actually optimize the frigates for AAW and being able to deal with saturation, so SAM and PDMS will be critical. After a while, they would probably want to switch-up to a MR-LR SAM akin to the Aster-30, e.g. an upgraded version of the DK-10 or Hisar-U.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6
  13. BDforever

    BDforever ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    14,273
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Ratings:
    +8 / 28,206 / -1
    Country:
    Bangladesh
    Location:
    Bangladesh
    plz give us too :cray: i am in love with this FAC since i heard about this project years ago :cray:
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  14. monitor

    monitor SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    7,537
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Ratings:
    +3 / 9,591 / -0
    Country:
    Bangladesh
    Location:
    Bangladesh
    This FAC fire power is near equivalent to a corvette , we can also expect this from Turkey .
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  15. BDforever

    BDforever ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    14,273
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Ratings:
    +8 / 28,206 / -1
    Country:
    Bangladesh
    Location:
    Bangladesh
    4 of them will be good :devil:
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1