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Turkey should pull troops from Afghanistan under 2020 accord

FuturePAF

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It may be a part of the Pak plan too!!! It'll look bad if the wholesale slaughter immediately starts!! The Turkish forces will work as a moderator for the time being.....
The risk is if one nato member stays, independent of the rest, another nato member could stay, and the overall conflict could be prolonged.

IMHO, it doesn’t seem like it is part of a Pakistani plan, more likely something that would be done to protect groups like the Uzbeks for example. It seems almost like Erdogan is thinking this is Bosnia, and the civilians need to be protected from a massacre, but this conflict for the most part these days is only armed group versus armed group.

The only thing I could assume Turkey would be doing in support of NATO withdrawal is providing protection between now and September to withdraw in safety. But after September, even a Turkish force at the airport risks being dragged into the conflict as I’m guessing other foreigners will try to use the Kabul airport as a military base for drone strikes.

Hence why the insistence that the Turks pull out of the airport, even if their intentions are just to provide humanitarian support.
 
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The risk is if one nato member stays, independent of the rest, another nato member could stay, and the overall conflict could be prolonged.

IMHO, it doesn’t seem like it is part of a Pakistani plan, more likely something that would be done to protect groups like the Uzbeks for example. It seems almost like Erdogan is thinking this is Bosnia, and the civilians need to be protected from a massacre, but this conflict for the most part these days is only armed group versus armed group.

The only thing I could assume Turkey would be doing in support of NATO withdrawal is providing protection between now and September to withdraw in safety. But after September, even a Turkish force at the airport risks being dragged into the conflict as I’m guessing other foreigners will try to use the Kabul airport as a military base for drone strikes.

Hence why the insistence that the Turks pull out of the airport, even if their intentions are just to provide humanitarian support.

Turkey won't stay a day behind unless both Taliban and afghan gov't accept it as per agreement... This thread shouldn't even have gotten so much traffic and interest
 

R Wing

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Uzbeks not Tajiks. I could understand but Talibs are not in war with the Uzbeks they are allies.
Things aren't so black and white. The Afg T have happily allied and waged war on groups regardless of their ethnic or sectarian makeup (like any insurgency, they have many opportunistic leanings.)

They singlehandedly destroyed the IMU and its leadership after the IMU tried to ally with ISIS-K.
 

Shapur

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All foreign occupying forces must leave including Turkey. They are welcome for some Qabli palaw once we have a stable legitimate government and they come as guests.
 

Adios Amigo

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Turkey should GTFO of Afghanistan, period.
why such strong words.... against a friendly country (deliberately not using the word brotherly as it ignites the fuse in hinds of many) ?

what wrong has turkey done to Pakistan which has called for such a knee jerk reaction?
IMO it is totally uncalled for....
Isn't Turkey working with Pakistan on many issues on International Forums... like Hand and Glove? Haven't they been involved in not only building but also transferring of technology on a wide range of platforms which otherwise would be impossible to attain from the west directly.... The list is long and can go on...

My young countrymen needs to understand before letting lose their cannons..... your likings and dislikings for a certain state shouldn't distort your judgement of your own national interests.... Why cant we be fiends with a certain country and mind our business and let them mind theirs.... why cant we stop toeing other's agendas .... why we must tag some as very good and others as the worst of the kind .... why we must take sides? We need friends and partners on many different levels.... we can be friends with Saudis or Iran but not the both .... why ? what's our beef? Same is the case with turkey ...

We must understand to maintain and further our relations with all countries particularly Muslim countries and avoid falling into the trap of choosing one for the other or getting involved in their quarrels..... that is only way to move forward...

One thing more .... before pointing those hard fingers at others for their roles in past.... we also need to check our our history with the same prism .... and I bet you wouldn't like that....


ON TOPIC.... yes I too believe turkey should leave with the rest as they are withdrawing .... Boots on the ground are never welcomed by natives and members of a self respecting nation.... Turkey's over stay can complicate things further in an already extremely fragile situation...


Adios
 

Taimoor Khan

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"Bilateral" negotiations with Taliban will be the best, and only solution to be honest. Staying under the flag of NATO is a minefield and should be avoided at all cost.
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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"Bilateral" negotiations with Taliban will be the best, and only solution to be honest. Staying under the flag of NATO is a minefield and should be avoided at all cost.
Things are little more complicated than that. I agree staying under the NATO banner is dangerous and against the agreement. I am pretty sure it’s to provide security up to the last NATO troops withdrawal. It’s an assurance to an extent...

Now, media reports inside Turkey is to the tune that the Taliban are killing the Turkic folks. It may be a black propaganda too. The current government is a coalition with the Turkish nationalists who have a close link with the Turkic republics. So, the Turkish troops presence is now a part of the domestic politics....

The Turkish government is not fool enough to risk the future relationship with Afganistan. They will come up with a solution....

As for Pak, the Turkish presence itself is a guarantee that the NATO withdrawal is proceeding smoothly. What happens if some “spoilers” (it’s not India alone) attack the NATO forces and ensure reprisals?!?! And, another “I” country is opportunistic too!! Turkey is doing a favor for Pak!! Please try to see the big picture.....

As for the official Turkish stance, the Turkish troops will provide the security for the Kabul airport so that the diplomatic and aid missions can continue. But, it’s up to the availability of the logistics and other supports!. With only 500 troops on the ground it can’t be done without the Afgan government support. So, if the Afgan government fails so is the end of this Turkish mission....
 
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mike2000 is back

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Why will Turkey insist on staying, when even the main Western NATO owers are already leaving or have already left. ?
 

Lincoln

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Why will Turkey insist on staying, when even the main Western NATO owers are already leaving or have already left. ?
Wondering the same. They're there undet NATO, and I don't understand why they would be interested in Afghanistan anyways and wanting to stay to be called out by the Taliban like this. They need to leave and can maintain relations and come back using agreements drawn with the new stable Afghan-only government.

Maybe though, just maybe they have a vested interests in carving out a Turkic state from Northern Afghanistan where there is a considerable population of Uzbeks, Tajiks and Turkmen. I can't see any other reason.
 

Taimoor Khan

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Things are little more complicated than that. I agree staying under the NATO banner is dangerous and against the agreement. I am pretty sure it’s to provide security up to the last NATO troops withdrawal. It’s an assurance to an extent...

Now, media reports inside Turkey is to the tune that the Taliban are killing the Turkic folks. It may be a black propaganda too. The current government is a coalition with the Turkish nationalists who have a close link with the Turkic republics. So, the Turkish troops presence is now a part of the domestic politics....

The Turkish government is not fool enough to risk the future relationship with Afganistan. They will come up with a solution....

As for Pak, the Turkish presence itself is a guarantee that the NATO withdrawal is proceeding smoothly. What happens if some “spoilers” (it’s not India alone) attack the NATO forces and ensure reprisals?!?! And, another “I” country is opportunistic too!! Turkey is doing a favor for Pak!! Please try to see the big picture.....

As for the official Turkish stance, the Turkish troops will provide the security for the Kabul airport so that the diplomatic and aid missions can continue. But, it’s up to the availability of the logistics and other supports!. With only 500 troops on the ground it can’t be done without the Afgan government support. So, if the Afgan government fails so is the end of this Turkish mission....

Spot on.

I think no Pakistani will like to see any sort of friction between Taliban and Turkey. I think Taliban themselves have engaged Turkey during the peace process, so there is an element of trust.

As for the ethnic rivalries between Afghans, unfortunately, that's part of parcel and has got historical luggage. After Soviet withdrawal, Pakistan tried its best to get all factions to sit together and form a unity government from all factions and ethnicities, it didnt last long. To say there wont be any scores settled this time around, would be naïve. What should never happen, that those who are working together to see the back of big satan from this region, start having issues with each other. The big picture must remain in the focus.
 

Behram Khilji

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Wondering the same. They're there undet NATO, and I don't understand why they would be interested in Afghanistan anyways and wanting to stay to be called out by the Taliban like this. They need to leave and can maintain relations and come back using agreements drawn with the new stable Afghan-only government.

Maybe though, just maybe they have a vested interests in carving out a Turkic state from Northern Afghanistan where there is a considerable population of Uzbeks, Tajiks and Turkmen. I can't see any other reason.
Afghanistan is no Syria, Libya or PKK that turkey can just push over.

It's best for turkey to leave, they came here as occupying force, they supported uncle Sam & brought misery to Afghan people regardless of ethnicity.

Turkified Greeks should do the right & honourable thing and leave or be forced to leave with tail in their legs, choice is theirs.
 

TNT

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I said this on another thread, taliban wont tolerate anything that resembles NATO, as its seen an illegal occupational force. Also the afghans and taliban dont look at Turkey the way Pakistan does. Taliban considers Turk as mostly westernized and only muslims by name. They would respect Saudi more than Turkey. There is no way taliban would allow Turkish soldiers, or any other foreign military. People need to understand how taliban think and view things. They are mostly tribal pashtuns and they look at things through their own prism.
 

FuturePAF

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Why will Turkey insist on staying, when even the main Western NATO owers are already leaving or have already left. ?
The Turks want more influence in the Turkic world, especially when the regions around them are in flux and they have a small window of the opportunity to change the region dynamics. Turkmen In Syria. Azeris in the Caucasus, and now Turkmen and Uzbeks in Central Asia/Afghanistan. A Turkish presence counter balances to some extent Russian, Chinese, and Iranian presence, while as a NATO member that has shed blood in NATO Missions since Korea, is a trusted force to protect NGOs and Diplomats as long as whatever government in charge of Kabul allows them to stay.

They will probably have to cut a side deal with the Talibs if they will allow it (which is a huge IF) if they are to be perceived to becoming neutral vis a vi the post withdrawal fighting between the kabuli regime and the Talibs, as well as the fight between armed ethnic Turks and Talibs.

probably something along the lines of non-interference in armed group vs. armed group violence and recognition if the Talibs take Kabul. But even then the Talibs probably think the Turks will be a Trojan horse, allowing Kabul airport to be used as a CT base or for drone strikes for the US and NATO.

if they keep the Uzbeks and Turkmen in check; actually force the ethnic Turks to seriously negotiate with the Talibs they may be allowed to stay to protect ethnic Turkic civilians, but that’s almost a big IF. It would be hard for Erdogan to justify not taking any action if even armed Turks are losing to ethnic Pashtuns and an armed Turkish force just stays at the airport.

I agree, a Turkish presence outside of NATO in Afghanistan is mostly in both Pakistan (Turks may be working on building that “Turkic corridor” which Pakistan can be the beneficiary of; Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan on to Azerbaijan, then Georgia and Turkey with onwards to Europe) and the West’s interest, but let’s see how the Afghan Factions deal with this. From what they have been saying, they really want ALL foreigners to leave.

P.S. Hazaras main patron will probably remain the Iranians, While the Tajiks with the mostly Pro-Russian and Pro-Indian. They are most likely to be the spoilers/opportunist should the Kabul regime fall.
 
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