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Turkey sends Rolls-Royce another pitch to co-produce engines for the TF-X jet

dani191

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Turkey sends Rolls-Royce another pitch to co-produce engines for the TF-X jet​

By Burak Ege Bekdil
May 31, 07:56 PM

QEMYBL63CRBJRIIODWQNTUZ27Q.jpg
A Rolls-Royce engine sits on an assembly line at the company's factory in Derby, England, in 2016. Turkey has turned to the company for a solution to power its future TF-X fighter jet. (Paul Ellis/Getty Images)
ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey has sent Rolls-Royce a request for proposals as it seeks a deal to co-produce an engine for the country’s indigenous fighter jet, the TF-X, according to the government’s chief procurement official.
Ismail Demir and Air Force Commander Gen. Hasan Küçükakyüz led two senior Turkish delegations in a visit to the U.K. in May for a new round of talks. Turkey is now waiting for the British engine maker’s assessment and reply.

“We must find common ground at a point that makes sense for both parties,” Demir said. “It is imperative for us that the engine be produced in Turkey … that Turkey should possess intellectual property rights.”
Demir described the U.K. government’s approach to the plan as “generally positive.”
One aspect of the potential deal, he said, involves the ability to export the engine to other countries. “For that reason we don’t want any export restrictions,” he explained.

In October 2016, Rolls-Royce offered a joint production partnership to Turkey to power planned Turkish platforms and support potential sales to third parties. The company’s proposal involved a production unit in Turkey to manufacture engines for the TF-X, as well as for helicopters, tanks and missiles.
In January 2017, U.K.-based company BAE Systems and Turkish Aerospace Industries signed a deal worth more than £100 million (U.S. $126 million) to develop the Turkish fighter jet. “We work with Turkish Aerospace to bring know-how and engineering expertise to the TF-X programme,” BAE tweeted Feb. 15, 2022.
In a March 5 television interview, Demir said the Turkish government would negotiate a possible engine deal with Rolls-Royce. “We had some issues [with Rolls-Royce] before,” he said. “These have been resolved. I think we are ready to work together.”
Following his most recent visit to the U.K., Demir confirmed work with BAE is ongoing, but that the government needs to further define the company’s role in the FX-X program.
 

dBSPL

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The participation of some Turkish companies in Team Tempest will not be a surprise.

The UK-led Tempest project has much more concrete and solid foundations than the Franco-German FCAS project.
 

Ali_Baba

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The participation of some Turkish companies in Team Tempest will not be a surprise.

The UK-led Tempest project has much more concrete and solid foundations than the Franco-German FCAS project.

Tempest has a better future as a project and product than the German FCAS project as the UK is better at forming collaborative and co-operative partnerships over defence projects. You can see the steady progress the UK has made over Tempest and how little "noise" is coming out of the project on the collaboration with its partners - just compare that with FCAS with both parties doing media briefings against their other partners and jostling for position and money and industrial intellectual property all the time.

The German and French approach is to attempt to hoard all of the technological, industrial and financial benefits for themselves. Anything inolving those two countries always turns out to be toxic..

As a general rule, Germany is also poor military-industrial partner and often undermines the business case for many defence projects once it has secured the intellectual property for itself and associated industrial offset gains ... eg Eurofighter project was a disaster from a financial perspective due to both Germany and the French..

The UK should have progressed with the British Aerospace EAP on its own as it had done most of the work at that point anyway !!!!!

The French and Germans are as bad as each other and truly deserve it other !!
 

UKBengali

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Tempest has a better future as a project and product than the German FCAS project as the UK is better at forming collaborative and co-operative partnerships over defence projects. You can see the steady progress the UK has made over Tempest and how little "noise" is coming out of the project on the collaboration with its partners - just compare that with FCAS with both parties doing media briefings against their other partners and jostling for position and money and industrial intellectual property all the time.

The German and French approach is to attempt to hoard all of the technological, industrial and financial benefits for themselves. Anything inolving those two countries always turns out to be toxic..

As a general rule, Germany is also poor military-industrial partner and often undermines the business case for many defence projects once it has secured the intellectual property for itself and associated industrial offset gains ... eg Eurofighter project was a disaster from a financial perspective due to both Germany and the French..

The UK should have progressed with the British Aerospace EAP on its own as it had done most of the work at that point anyway !!!!!

The French and Germans are as bad as each other and truly deserve it other !!


Not to mention that French engine tech and stealth technology is way behind that of the UK.

Turkey should absolutely be brought into Tempest project with full tech transfer of all core technologies apart from the engine, which the UK must keep for itself.

UK, Sweden, Turkey, Japan and Italy will give the Tempest programme both the scale and technological base to compete with the US next gen fighter as an equal.
 

_NOBODY_

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Not to mention that French engine tech and stealth technology is way behind that of the UK.

Turkey should absolutely be brought into Tempest project with full tech transfer of all core technologies apart from the engine, which the UK must keep for itself.

UK, Sweden, Turkey, Japan and Italy will give the Tempest programme both the scale and technological base to compete with the US next gen fighter as an equal.
The US's next-gen fighter will always be far superior to all the other fighters in the world. By the time Tempest starts getting inducted the US will have already inducted their next-gen fighter.
 

UKBengali

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The US's next-gen fighter will always be far superior to all the other fighters in the world. By the time Tempest starts getting inducted the US will have already inducted their next-gen fighter.



Nope.

Please state the basis for your opinion.

UK's RR has engine tech just as good as the US and it has had massive stealth experience with 25% design and manufacturing share in the F-35. US allowed UK into the F-35 as the only Tier 1 programme due to the fact that the UK proved itself an equal in aerospace technology.
 

dBSPL

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Not to mention that French engine tech and stealth technology is way behind that of the UK.

Turkey should absolutely be brought into Tempest project with full tech transfer of all core technologies apart from the engine, which the UK must keep for itself.

UK, Sweden, Turkey, Japan and Italy will give the Tempest programme both the scale and technological base to compete with the US next gen fighter as an equal.
Technology-Concept developing and industrializing technology are different issues. And this point, Tempest project could actually not only Industrial capacity of UK but morely, they could benefit from some major new-gen airforce build-up experiences of other regional actors, as like combatant aviation experience of the UK. Basicly UK facilitates the risk management of the Tempest project by supporting the fighter jet programs of countries such as Japan and Turkiye.

Both countries will provide tens of billions of dollars in funding to industrialize dozens of different technologies. British companies and engineers in these project areas will have this experience as well as the experience of their countries. For example Turkish state will fund whole MMU engine development program, but if the partnership can be established, the product development experience (and later problems and solutions in production, operational and maintenance processes) gained here will be used in an active-operational jet, (this jet also needs to compete with other latest generation jets in the region) and all these could contribute directly to the engine development program related to the Tempest project.
 
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_NOBODY_

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Nope.

Please state the basis for your opinion.

UK's RR has engine tech just as good as the US and it has had massive stealth experience with 25% design and manufacturing share in the F-35. US allowed UK into the F-35 as the only Tier 1 programme due to the fact that the UK proved itself an equal in aerospace technology.
The UK will never ever become equal to the US in aviation. The US didn't need anyone to create the F-35, they could have very easily built it all by themselves. Rolls Royce's engine tech is impressive but good luck competing with Pratt and Whitney whose F135, the greatest fighter engine in the world is already flying the F-35s around the world. Going by your logic Italy's and Spain's aerospace technology were equal to that of the UK which obliviously not true. Also, I suggest you take a good look at the budget of the USAF before replying to me and also note that this budget will massively increase in the coming years.
 

UKBengali

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The UK will never ever become equal to the US in aviation. The US didn't need anyone to create the F-35, they could have very easily built it all by themselves. Rolls Royce's engine tech is impressive but good luck competing with Pratt and Whitney whose F135, the greatest fighter engine in the world is already flying the F-35s around the world. Going by your logic Italy's and Spain's aerospace technology were equal to that of the UK which obliviously not true. Also, I suggest you take a good look at the budget of the USAF before replying to me and also note that this budget will massively increase in the coming years.



I am afraid you know very little about aerospace technology

The US roped in UK's RR for the F-135-PW-600 engine(F-35B) "LiftSystem" as they did not have the swivel fan technology that the UK had perfected over many decades on their Harrier Jump-Jet.

Please research the history of UK and USA aviation and also the JSF programme and then reply back.
 

_NOBODY_

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I am afraid you know very little about aerospace technology

The US roped in UK's RR for the F-135-PW-600 engine(F-35B) "LiftSystem" as they did not have the swivel fan technology that the UK had perfected over many decades on their Harrier Jump-Jet.

Please research the history of UK and USA aviation and also the JSF programme and then reply back.
I am aware of this cooperation and Harrier is one of my favourite fighters despite its absolutely hideous looks lol. Based on what I have studied about the JSF program and the Tempest program I still fail to see how the UK will be able to match the US anytime soon. The US's mindboggling budget allows them to do things that others simply cannot and not to mention the US's technological prowess I still fail to see how the Tempest will be superior to the US's next-gen aircraft. It is useless for us to argue right now, let's patiently wait for the prototype of Tempest.
 

waz

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Intellectual property rights is a big thing for Rolls, hence why they said no to India and then went to France.
It's a big thing to give such knowhow as it leapfrogs a nation in the aviation industry.
 

UKBengali

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. The US's mindboggling budget


This is where a lot of people simply go wrong.

Once you spend over a certain amount of money, there is not the same proportional increase in technological capability.

As an example, look at the performance of the Swedish Global Eye AWACs over that of competing US based systems. They are very similar in terms of capability despite the US spending many times more on radar research than the Swedes have done over the decades.

A good example of how badly the US wants UK military technology is that they are trying to pressure the UK government to sell them Ultra that makes top-secret submarine sensing technology.

There is only one peer to the US in aerospace right now and that is the US. Over the next generation the Chinese are also likely to join these two as one of the world's premier aerospace powers.

Intellectual property rights is a big thing for Rolls, hence why they said no to India and then went to France.
It's a big thing to give such knowhow as it leapfrogs a nation in the aviation industry.



I suspect that for Tempest not only the engine technology but the most secret stealth technology developed for it will be kept UK only.

The rest can have access to everything else that is being developed for it as they can anyway develop something of similar capability themselves.
 

waz

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I suspect that for Tempest not only the engine technology but the most secret stealth technology developed for it will be kept UK only.

The rest can have access to everything else that is being developed for it as they can anyway develop something of similar capability themselves.

Looks like it, but I do feel Rolls may let off a bit and give some key input if there are firm offers in terms of partnership.
What's great is that we won't be doing anything with the US after the F-35 software codes fiasco. Hilariously we handed over the work to Cambridge university who cracked them in a few days hahaha.
 
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UKBengali

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Looks like it, but I do feel Rolls may let off a bit and give some key input if there are firm offers in terms of partnership.
What's great is that we won't be doing anything with the US after the F-35 software codes fiasco. Hilariously we handed over the work over to Cambridge university who cracked them in a few days hahaha.



Yes, just the lower tech sections like low-pressure turbines and gearbox.

The core and high-pressure turbine technology will never be divulged and the partners will get those parts in sealed "black boxes".

US demand for UK to sell them Ultra will be another nail in the coffin of continued US-UK defence cooperation.
 

Ali_Baba

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Who would have thought! French / Germans at each others throats over intellectual property / industrial offsets and money....... again !!!!


Tempest is set for takeoff !!!!

8-)8-)8-)
 

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