What's new

Turkey"s future lies with Europe

comci

FULL MEMBER
Jul 19, 2015
176
1
280
Country
Netherlands
Location
Hong Kong
The Turks wasted the chance they were given.
The next opportunity may come again in hundred year.
There will be no chance for Turkey to join the EU. Not now nor in the future. The politic tendency in Europe is shifting to anti-islam/immigrants/refugees. European are more keen to vote for right wing parties nowadays. No more shame or guilt like the old generation. They are tired of the muslim migrants who run amok in the society in Europe, draining the social welfare. Average European feels that islamic countries like Turkey does not have anything in common with Europe be it culture, norms and values. Average european see Turkey=Arabs=Muslims in negative way. To make thing worst, Erdogan keeps open his mouth about things that should be solved at diplomatic channel instead of in public to show the european and the muslim world
who is the boss.

laughable considered the facts that Turkey is dependant on Europe for technology, financial etc. Core EU-members like Germany and France would never accept Turkey especially after the freedom of speech debacle with France and lately with Germany with regard to Turkish cargo vessel. What the EU doing is now giving Turkey lip service about accession in to the EU and hopes the refugee issue will be solved without giving Turkey much concession. Average guillible muslim in the world looks up to Turkey because of how Erdogan dealt with USA, EU, Russia, China etc. Not realising that every action has consequence. Tough talks without results is the same as barking dog doesnt bite.


Turkey blocks EU inspection of cargo vessel travelling to Libya
Access to the comments Comments
By Matthew Holroyd with AFP • last updated: 24/11/2020 - 18:39

Turkey's Foreign Ministry denounced the search by German personnel as unauthorised and forceful.

Turkey's Foreign Ministry denounced the search by German personnel as "unauthorised and forceful". - Copyright AFP PHOTO/DEMIROREN NEWS AGENCY
Share this article
  • embed


  • facebook
  • twitter
  • flipboard
  • mail icon
  • reddit
  • messenger-dsk
  • linkedin
  • vk
Text size Aa Aa

Turkey has blocked a German military vessel from inspecting a cargo ship suspected of carrying weapons on its way to Libya.
On Sunday evening, the German frigate Hamburg stopped the Turkish-flagged cargo ship, Roseline A, as part of a European Union mission called Operation Irini.


But the search had to be abandoned after Ankara protested and denied permission for the vessel to be probed.
Turkey's Foreign Ministry denounced the inspection as "unauthorised and forceful" and says all crewmembers of the freighter were forcibly searched.
Deputy Minister Sedat Onel later summoned the Italian ambassador, the German Embassy's Charge d' Affaires as well as the EU's envoy to Turkey to formally protest the incident.
Germany has rejected Turkey's complaints and states that all protocols were followed in the mission, adding that no weapons or illicit materials were found on the ship.

On Tuesday, Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer rejected Turkey's accusations and said their protest to the boarding of the vessel was unjustified.
"The soldiers behaved correctly and acted absolutely in line with the mandate of the European mission Irini,” Kramp-Karrenbauer said at a press conference.
Operation Irini was launched by the EU on 31 March to monitor and enforce compliance with the United Nations Security Council Resolution which bans arms shipments to Libya.
The mission uses aerial, satellite, and maritime assets in order to help "bring stability in Libya and peace to its population".
Libya has been torn between two warring factions since the fall of Muammar Gaddafi in 2011: the UN-recognised Tripoli unity government (GNA), which is supported by Turkey, and eastern forces led by Marshal Khalifa Haftar.
The rival sides signed a permanent cease-fire on Friday, but scepticism remains over whether the agreement will be enforced.
Why did Turkey block the search?
German personnel from the Irini mission boarded the Roseline A cargo vessel to search for suspected arms at 17:54 (15:54 CET) on Sunday.
The team met the vessel in international waters, approximately 200 kilometres north of the port of Benghazi, according to a press release.
The vessel had departed Yarimca in Turkey on 20 November and was sailing on course for Misrata in Libya.
The captain of the freighter had cooperated and shared detailed information about the ship's load and voyage, according to the Turkish Foreign Ministry.
Ankara says that armed German forces boarded the vessel by helicopter and conducted a search which lasted for several hours.
"All personnel, including the captain, were searched forcibly, all personnel were gathered and detained in one place, and containers were searched by force, with an armed soldier standing at the captain's head," the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
Footage released by Demiroren News Agency claims to show German soldiers searching the vessel's crew, who are made to stand with their hands on their head in the control room.
Turkey says the inspection was carried out without their consent, nor that of the ship's captain, and violated international law.
"This intervention, which was initiated upon an ambiguous suspicion and continued until midnight, was terminated only upon the persistent objections of our country."
"We regret the detention of our ship, which seems to have not violated the arms embargo, from its route for hours under severe weather conditions, and the fact that the personnel were treated as criminals during the inspection."
"We protest this act of unauthorized and forceful use," the Ministry stated, adding that they reserve the right to seek compensation for potential damage and losses.
On Tuesday, Defense Minister Hulusi Akar renewed criticism of the German frigate's actions, saying the incident went "against international laws and practices".
No arms materials found onboard
Germany has rejected the allegations by Turkey and says that the mission followed all protocols.
According to a spokesperson in Berlin, the military had warned the Turkish authorities of their intention to inspect the ship, and in the absence of any objection, proceeded to board after four hours in line with international maritime practice.
"If there is no objection within a period of four hours, this is considered as tacit consent," a Defence Ministry spokesperson told Euronews.
"The frigate Hamburg acted in accordance with the instructions of the operation command and along the regulations laid down in the mandate for the operation."
The decision to search was taken not by the German military but by the Operation Irini headquarters in Rome, the spokesperson added.
"The situation on board [Roseline A] was cooperative," the Command of the Bundeswehr also stated on Twitter.
Berlin confirmed that the inspection was subsequently cancelled by mission leadership once Ankara vetoed the search, and says the team remained onboard until they could safely return to the frigate.
"After consultation with the ship's command, the boarding team stayed on board until sunrise in order to be able to return safely to Hamburg," the Ministry said.
In a further statement, Operation Irini said the inspection was carried out "in accordance with relevant UN Security Council resolutions" and that the mission permitted searches in international waters.
"We made good faith efforts to seek the consent of the flag State," the EU said.
"Having received no answer from the flag State, the Master of the ship and its crew assumed a cooperative attitude towards the boarding team."
"When the flag State made it clear that it denied the permission to inspect the vessel, Operation IRINI suspended activities".
All sides have agreed that no illicit material or arms were found onboard the Roseline A during the brief inspection.
Turkey had said that the vessel was transporting food, paints, and humanitarian aid materials from Ambarli Port to Misrata.
The 148-metre long cargo ship was cleared to continue on its voyage to Libya and was expected to make port at 21:00 CET on Monday.
Operation Irini also says that all recommended COVID-19 precautions were observed during the inspection.
Turkish claims of a "double-standard"
According to Operation Irini's guidance, military teams can board a ship for inspection "against the will of the crew" where consent has not been given.
Where boarding is opposed, a team of special forces can "force access" and carry out a search operation that focuses on safety and efficiency.
Sunday's incident was the second example of tensions between Turkey and naval forces from a NATO ally country.
In June, NATO launched an investigation after France said one of its frigates was "lit up'' three times by Turkish naval targeting radar when it tried to approach a Turkish civilian ship suspected of involvement in arms trafficking.
Turkey considers that the EU mission is biased and has accused the EU of blocking arms to the Tripoli government while ignoring those supplied to Khalifa Haftar by his allies.
"The neutrality of Operation Irini ... is currently under discussion," said the Turkish Foreign Ministry.
"It is an operation that does not control the arms support to the putschist Haftar and is used arbitrarily to punish the legitimate Libyan government."
"This double-standard and illegal treatment applied to ships transporting from our country to Libya is never acceptable".
The member countries of Operation Irini - including Germany and France - for their part issued a joint statement on Monday threatening sanctions against "all Libyan or international parties" that could jeopardize the fragile peace process underway in the country.
According to the EU, Irini has helped to document embargo violations by Turkey and Russia, two countries also involved in the conflict.
The inspection of the Roseline A was the fifth boarding activity since the mission was launched.
The bloc also sanctioned a Turkish shipowner guilty of embargo violations in September by freezing his assets.
Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer stressed that "Turkey is still an important partner for us in NATO," but conceded that the country poses a "big challenge" to European efforts due to its domestic policies and agenda.
 

AViet

FULL MEMBER
Dec 11, 2009
1,824
-1
3,685
Country
Viet Nam
Location
Korea, Republic Of
There will be no chance for Turkey to join the EU. Not now nor in the future. The politic tendency in Europe is shifting to anti-islam/immigrants/refugees. European are more keen to vote for right wing parties nowadays. No more shame or guilt like the old generation. They are tired of the muslim migrants who run amok in the society in Europe, draining the social welfare. Average European feels that islamic countries like Turkey does not have anything in common with Europe be it culture, norms and values. Average european see Turkey=Arabs=Muslims in negative way. To make thing worst, Erdogan keeps open his mouth about things that should be solved at diplomatic channel instead of in public to show the european and the muslim world
who is the boss.
How you North West European see Bosniak, Albanian, Tatar etc., i.e. other Muslim European. Do you see them as fellow European or totally different people?

From racial point of view, basically Turkish are Turkified Europeans. They have nothing, or very little in common with East and Central Asian Turks (except the Turkic languages, which are mutually unintelligible), be it race or culture or history, but far more in common racially and historically with Greeks, Bulgarians and other Catholic South Europeans.

And AFAIK, the South European (Romanian, Bulgarians, etc.) mostly consider Turkish as Europeans.
 

aziqbal

BANNED
Aug 26, 2010
2,777
9
4,897
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
Turkey future does not belong to Europe

Europe will soon need Turkey

Turkey should join Pakistan + Indonesia

together with vast population +manpower and also resources these 3 can dominate

Turkey is very advanced in all types of modern technologies including core technologies

this decade should see massive progress by these countries Pakistan is already buying big ticket items from Turkey soon Indonesia will follow
 

PakFactor

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 30, 2019
3,606
2
6,281
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Turkey has been trying to be in Europe ever since end of Ottoman Empire. Europe does not accept it. This is now almost a century Europe has been giving Turkey a cold shoulder.

Now things are changing. Restrictions related to Treaty of Lausanne end in 2023. In the last few decades the world order is gradually changing. There is a shift now towards the East. Turkey has innumerable opportunities having a very strategic position straddling Europe and Asia.

Turkey will be better off to build its strategic alliances in the East. For Europe., Turkey is only good for NATO. Europe is not willing to bring Turkey as economic partner, although Turkish economy is better than many EU members. Those biases against Turkey exist since the Ottomans.
I don't think the Treaty of Lausanne has a end date?
Turkey future does not belong to Europe

Europe will soon need Turkey

Turkey should join Pakistan + Indonesia

together with vast population +manpower and also resources these 3 can dominate

Turkey is very advanced in all types of modern technologies including core technologies

this decade should see massive progress by these countries Pakistan is already buying big ticket items from Turkey soon Indonesia will follow
After Pakistan IK throwing Mahathir under the bus under Saudi pressure, I don't think Turkey would want Pakistan to lead any sort of alliance that's created.
 

comci

FULL MEMBER
Jul 19, 2015
176
1
280
Country
Netherlands
Location
Hong Kong
How you North West European see Bosniak, Albanian, Tatar etc., i.e. other Muslim European. Do you see them as fellow European or totally different people?

From racial point of view, basically Turkish are Turkified Europeans. They have nothing, or very little in common with East and Central Asian Turks (except the Turkic languages, which are mutually unintelligible), be it race or culture or history, but far more in common racially and historically with Greeks, Bulgarians and other Catholic South Europeans.

And AFAIK, the South European (Romanian, Bulgarians, etc.) mostly consider Turkish as Europeans.
North West Europe see those Bosnian, Albanian aka the Balkan states as bunch of criminals, pimps, human traffickers or as leechers of the welfare states. From what i know, see and experienced, the western european are not positive towards anything from East-Europe or the balkan states unless one likes to visit the local brothels which is full of girls from the balkan or East-Europe. The local feeling is that those eastern europe nations dont have anything positive to contribute to make the EU great again. In fact East-Europe states are seen as a endless burden to the locals in Western Europe. Annually more tax money from West-Europe goes to East-Europe to built the East-Europe economy but in reality those money are wasted because of many corrupt politician in East-Europe. To make thing worst, many Eastern European moves to West Europe which put the house prize, jobs and social welfare alot under pressure.

If you think Geert Wilders is the worst for muslims or immigrants, well embrace yourself for West-Europe politicians like Thierry Baudet. Unlike Geert Wilders, he and his followers are high educated, believer of western supremacy and already won many local votes. His core members are professors at the law faculty of University of Leiden! and not some european rednecks who are too dumb to think for themselves.
If average Western European disdain the Eastern European so much what do you think West-European feels about the muslim Turks in which they dont have anything in common in terms of values and religion? Fact is Ukraine has higher chance to become EU member than Turkey will ever be.


Btw Romanian, Bulgarians are not Southern European, but Eastern European. Eastern European in West europe are mostly seen as leechers of the welfare states or as local job stealers. They are willing to work for less money. The European Schengen treaty made it possible for any person from eastern europe to move freely to western europe without any obstacles provided some terms and conditions are met which is quite easy to fullfill in practice.


With regards considering Turkey as part of Europe is a complicated matter. Parts of Turkey belongs to Greece, Roman, Armenia etc in ancient history (for instance constantinople).
Turks from central asia are newcomers in comparison with those locals inhabitants like the ancient greece, persian, romans etc. If nowadays Turks are christian or part of Greece, It would be easy to become member of the EU. From what i have seen so far average turks in Turkey look like either southern european or as middle-eastern people. In certain way one can say: Turkey as ancient landmass is part of Europe geographically but not the people because the Turks are muslims and considerd by many european as part of the middle-east.

Unlike many beliefs on this forum, Turkey will always try to connect herself to the EU. Turkey aspiration is to become member of the EU no matter what. Ask average turks which one they prefer : the union of muslims states or the EU to join? Reality speaks louder than words. Even Erdogan himself comfirmed it many times. Read recent article below. Erdogan/Turkey will never gives up the EU member aspiration nor cancel the western NATO membership.

Most pakistan members here dream too much about the impossible and impractical way of geo-politic and geo-economy in which Pakistan try too hard to advance Turkey role as the leader they look up to but the reality is no matter how hard Erdogan/Turkey shouts, the end game is to become EU member, other non core issues are simply to distract the guillible ones to score some points in the muslim world. Most Pakistani are too blind to see the reality as it is. In the future Pakistan will be disappointed again by betting on fellow muslim state like Turkey as it has bet on the Arab states with regard to Palestine. In the end deeds matter and not some fancy words which somehow most muslims in Pakistan really love it so much.


Turkey
Turkey withdraws contentious research ship to port ahead of key EU summit
Access to the comments Comments
By Michael Daventry • last updated: 30/11/2020
The research vessel was withdrawn to port on Monday morning

The research vessel was withdrawn to port on Monday morning - Copyright Burhan Ozbilici/AP
Share this article
Text size Aa Aa

Turkey has announced it has called a research ship at the centre of a drilling row with Greece back to port ahead of a summit of EU leaders next week.
The country's Energy and Natural Resources Ministry said on Monday morning that the Oruç Reis vessel had "completed the two-dimensional seismic research" it was conducting off Demre, a town on the southern Turkish coast.


The ship had started work on August 10 and has now returned to port in Antalya, the ministry added.
It comes less than a fortnight before European leaders meet for an EU Council summit on December 11.

The Oruç Reis has been at the centre of a dispute with Turkey's neighbour Greece over undersea drilling rights in the eastern Mediterranean.
The two countries and Cyprus have overlapping claims of sovereignty over waters in the region.


The Turkish Ministry of Energy and Natural Resources announced the ship has returned to port
There is growing EU disquiet at its disputes with Turkey on issues including migrants from Syria and Afghanistan, the Libyan civil war, and sea exploration rights in the Eastern Mediterranean.
Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's tone towards the EU has also become increasingly belligerent as he steered his country towards military agreements with Russia.
Several member states, including Greece, France and Austria, are pushing for sanctions including an arms embargo, although these are understood to be opposed by Germany, Italy and Spain.
But in recent weeks Erdoğan has adopted a more conciliatory tone, telling a meeting of his governing AK Party on November 21: "We see ourselves in Europe, not in a different place. We foresee building our future with the EU."
Turkey began accession talks in 2005, nearly two decades after it formally applied for membership in 1987.
But multiple chapters in the negotiations have since been frozen because of a dispute over the divided island of Cyprus.
There has been very little progress over the last six years.
Some European politicians, including many in the European Parliament, believe the membership talks should be formally suspended or cancelled altogether.


Milica Stojanovic
Belgrade
BIRN
July 24, 202010:51
Once small-time crime gangs from the Western Balkans have expanded their range to Latin America, Australia, Western Europe and Turkey, a new report says, so becoming key international players.
Organised crime groups from the Western Balkans have become key players in various areas of smuggling in Western Europe, Latin America and South Africa, shows a new report by the Global Initiative Against Transnational Organized Crime, a non-profit Swiss-based network of prominent law enforcement, governance and development practitioners.
The report, published on Friday, titled Transnational Tentacles – Global Hotspots of Balkan Organized Crime, analyses data on criminal activities by groups from Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Montenegro, North Macedonia and Serbia, focusing mostly on their activities in Western Europe, Latin America, South Africa, Turkey and Australia.
The idea was to trace “how certain groups from the Western Balkans have moved up the value chain in the past 20 years, from small-time crooks and couriers to becoming major distributors of drugs in networks that stretch from Latin America to Western Europe and South Africa,” the report says.
Regarding Western Europe, the report focuses mostly on Italy, Spain, the Netherlands and the Czech Republic. A significant entry point for drugs is Italy’s east coast, the report says, noting “the relatively high number of seizures of drugs in cans in Bari and Ancona, disembarking from ferries arriving from Durres” in Albania.
“Albanians in Italy who are importing drugs along the coast of Puglia have a double advantage: they have links to their compatriots at the source of supply, and with groups in Albania that can facilitate distribution,” the report observes.
The coasts of Spain are also important arenas for Western Balkan organised crime groups, according to the report, which says the port of Valencia is a key hub for groups from Serbia and Montenegro.

Trafficking routes in Western Europe highlighted in report. Photo: Global Initiative Against Transnational Organized Crime
“Valencia also played a key role in the evolution of the Kotor [Montenegro] cartel. It was there that around 200 kilograms of cocaine disappeared from the apartment of Goran Radoman [a Montenegrin citizen] in 2014,” the report says.
The Albanian mafia is meanwhile active in the Netherlands, where their business has evolved from focusing on human trafficking and smuggling migrants to the drugs trade.
The Czech Republic also is a notable base for organised crime business from the Balkans and the report names Darko Saric, Andrija Draskovic, Milan Narancic “Lemon”, Ismet Osmani and Qazim Osmani, and Borislav Plavsic, as underworld Balkan figures that either have or had companies registered there.
Successors to old school crooks
The report notes that majority of crime gangs from former Yugoslavia owe their success and presence in Western Europe to the previous generation of old school mobsters from communist Yugoslavia, some of whom made careers first as thieves and burglars and who in the tumultuous 1990s then became war lords, like the late Serbian mobster Zeljko Raznatovic “Arkan”.
Dobrosav Gavric, a Serb indicted for killing Arkan in January 2000, lived in South Africa for at least 13 years under a false identity and is now in detention, awaiting a decision on his extradition to Serbia.
“It has become clear that a number of Serbians who were killed in South Africa between 2018 and 2020 had an association with Gavric, formed part of his network and originally came to South Africa because of him,” the report suggests.

Cocaine trafficking routes from Latin America to Western Europe, South Africa and Australia. Photo: Global Initiative Against Transnational Organized Crime
The report adds that “it appears that there is a new generation of criminals from former Yugoslavia who are involved in the drugs trade in South Africa”. However, it goes on, “there have been no arrest, no interrogations and no court proceedings, making it difficult to glean any information”.
Beside the drugs trade, Western Balkan crime groups are also active in cigarettes and migrant smuggling in Turkey.
According to the report, from 2008 to 2020, Latin America became a hotspot for crime groups from the Balkans. The main reason for this was the high demand for cocaine in Europe, disruption of the trade in terms of the supply from Colombia after a 2016 peace agreement there, and the local “climate of corruption”, which increases trafficking.
“Some entrepreneurial criminals from Albania, Montenegro and Serbia have gone to the source countries of cocaine to become involved in distribution,” the report explains. They operate mostly in Colombia and Ecuador, but also in Uruguay, Peru and Brazil, it says.

 
Last edited:

Indos

PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
Jul 25, 2013
10,923
21
15,034
Country
Indonesia
Location
Indonesia
Years ago Turkey was on verge to join the EU, then suddenly Turkey turned toward nationalist Islamism, found interesting to thrash the Europeans, Erdogan himself called Germany and Merkel as Nazi.
Turkey itself is to blame. They deliberately burned down the bridge under their feet.
Turkey has been under Islamist party lead government since 2000. Even the could make it earlier if their military didnt intervene during 1990's (just google: Necmetin Erbakan).
 

Viet

ELITE MEMBER
Jun 18, 2012
23,376
0
17,448
Country
Viet Nam
Location
Germany
Turkey has been under Islamist party lead government since 2000. Even the could make it earlier if their military didnt intervene during 1990's (just google: Necmetin Erbakan).
Without Erdogan’s politics of fanatics the secular republic of Turkey would be today a part of EU.
He wasted the chance he was given.
 

Chacha_Facebooka

FULL MEMBER
Mar 16, 2010
217
0
242
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
EU countries will never allow Turkey in. EU's parliament is elected by proportional representation. If Turkey gets in, based on population, it will become the most powerful EU nation as it will have more MPs than others.
 

Indos

PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
Jul 25, 2013
10,923
21
15,034
Country
Indonesia
Location
Indonesia
Without Erdogan’s politics of fanatics the secular republic of Turkey would be today a part of EU.
He wasted the chance he was given.
I believe many AKP supporters are happy with current situation.
 

-blitzkrieg-

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 1, 2015
3,485
2
4,160
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Turkey has been trying to be in Europe ever since end of Ottoman Empire. Europe does not accept it. This is now almost a century Europe has been giving Turkey a cold shoulder.

Now things are changing. Restrictions related to Treaty of Lausanne end in 2023. In the last few decades the world order is gradually changing. There is a shift now towards the East. Turkey has innumerable opportunities having a very strategic position straddling Europe and Asia.

Turkey will be better off to build its strategic alliances in the East. For Europe., Turkey is only good for NATO. Europe is not willing to bring Turkey as economic partner, although Turkish economy is better than many EU members. Those biases against Turkey exist since the Ottomans.
but treaty of lausanne has no expiry
 

comci

FULL MEMBER
Jul 19, 2015
176
1
280
Country
Netherlands
Location
Hong Kong
Without Erdogan’s politics of fanatics the secular republic of Turkey would be today a part of EU.
He wasted the chance he was given.
Do you ever read the history of the meetings between the EU and Turkey, started in 1987? I can tell you after decades of negotiations the core members are just happy to give lip service to Turkey whether Turkish government is fanatics or not. After all Turkey is usefull to the EU and the NATO to do the heavy lifting in the endless conflicts in the middle-east. How come newcomer aspirant european country like Ukraine did not have any obstacles thrown at them like Turkey?


Its simple math. The EU dont want country like Turkey. Turkey has better chance to create own muslim bloc than joining the EU bloc especially if Turkey keeps pissing off the Greece and nowadays the core EU member France. Non european might not realise this, but Greece will always have the support of the core EU members as christian nation no matter what. And you know how Greece feels about Turkey...

The only European country that has supported Turkey as a member of the EU is the UK (on behalf of USA) but now Brexit happens that slim chance is gone.
The way i see it now, Turkey is stucked in the middle of nowhere. Not wanted by the EU nor by the arabs middle-east countries. The EU as a whole is content to do business with Turkey by not making her member of the EU as that would create another political headaches.

I think it is unfair to Turkey. The EU as a whole need to be honest and direct towards Turkey instead of keeping the Turks on the line for the military and political purpose that only serve European agenda for the last decades. On the other hand, i wonder why Turkey keeps holding on the empty promises of the EU? How many rejections from the EU are needed to make Turkey opens her eyes that the christian EU bloc will never accept Turkey?

Lie to me once shame on you, lie to me twice(or many more) shame on me.

If Turkey claims to be super power (like China, USA or Russia) then it is about time to show the EU bloc the middle finger that Turkey is indeed independant and not needed anyone.
 
Last edited:

AViet

FULL MEMBER
Dec 11, 2009
1,824
-1
3,685
Country
Viet Nam
Location
Korea, Republic Of
with due respect what does Turkey have in common with India or China ?
Turkey claims a lot of ancient Turkic empires which have ever existed as its own history. All reliable recorded history of these Turkic empires are made by Chinese chronology.

Turkey wants to connect it to ancient great Turkic empires, most of which are now within modern China/Mongolia territory. Some of great Chinese dynasties were of Turkic origin. Even Zhou dynasty is seen by some historians as having Turkic background (As per Sử Trung Quốc by Nguyen Hien Le)

However, from racial point of view, modern Turkey has nothing in common with these Turkic empires. As I said, Turkey are made of Turkified Europeans, but they want (for various reasons, at least parts of Turkish) to have some bonds with ancient Turkic people as their ancestors. Possibly they want to be seen as conquerors, not a conquered people.

The same with Guatemalans or Bolivians or various South Americans who now speaking Spanish.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom